King Billy casino 3x wagering requirement for withdrawal without bonus

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
Problem is a fair few reps really don't won't to be here & are lacking. Player frustration is most common on here of late, coupled with poor promos & crappy casino terms, your only chance players get to hit back is via a forum.
Reps should have thicker skin, they choose wether to reply.
Anyways 3x is a crap term & we all know it.
 
King Billy is reviewed at Casinomeister

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
Unfortunately i think the rep set the tone for some of the comments with their initial response which reeked of dismissiveness and arrogance but still, yeah, in general the honey's better than the vinegar :p

Unless its fish n chips for tea.....
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
The other thing to remember is it IS a crap term, but you agreed to it when you accepted the T&Cs on signing up.

Most people don’t even skim read them, but that’s no excuse. Buyer beware and all that.
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
KingBilly is not alone. There are sisters and brothers on Softswiss with similar rules.

333.png

But these are happy with "you give us a bit of money, and you are free to take your own money".
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
These terms do advise at casino discretion - so maybe for their regular customers they DONT charge and all is good. I mean when sky had the ridicoulous - you can deposit a tenner minimum but minimum withdrawal is £20 junk - I deposited a tenner just to make my £15 balance withdrawable.......

Jan has said similar, for regular customers wherre money laundering clearly not an issue, they do not check whether deposits have been wagered 1x
 

quber

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
Europe
it is mainly meant for AML policy.
No it's not. You have tools at your disposal to do money laundering checks, like all other casinos do. This is just plain rogue and predatory behaviour and should lose you accreditation.

Also how can it be AML when a player can pay a fee to withdraw their money? surely that defeats the whole AML argument.
 
Last edited:

N3verEasy

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Location
Brussels
My two cents:

1. A casino obviously incurs a lot of fees for transacting money back and forth to customers. We should not care about that (we'll end up losing in the long run anyway) but at the same time, we don't like casino's that charge those fees to us either. If this rule - which will rarely affect any of us, because as stated above, it is highly doubtful it will ever be enforced upon regulars - prevents me from having to pay a transaction fee, I'll gladly accept it.
2. A casino has to protect itself against those that have malicious intent. We all look at it from our own angle "oh boy, if I win early on in my session, they're gonna stick it to me?" but what it is probably more about, is preventing that other type of person from, for example, cashing in & out all the time to get a higher VIP-level on e-wallets or whatever other (non-AML) scheme they may be running.

So I personally get both views: I get why the representative reacts how he reacts ("start your own casino and see how far you get without comparable terms") and I get why those firmly against it react how they react.

In the end though, this shows just how valuable this forum is, because when an operator gets more acquainted with the player perspective and visa versa, it can easily lead to small modifications to the term, that still protects the casino, without enraging the community.

So here's to more comparable discussions and - hopefully - meaningful change and a better understanding of things from both sides ?
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
My two cents:

1. A casino obviously incurs a lot of fees for transacting money back and forth to customers. We should not care about that (we'll end up losing in the long run anyway) but at the same time, we don't like casino's that charge those fees to us either. If this rule - which will rarely affect any of us, because as stated above, it is highly doubtful it will ever be enforced upon regulars - prevents me from having to pay a transaction fee, I'll gladly accept it.
2. A casino has to protect itself against those that have malicious intent. We all look at it from our own angle "oh boy, if I win early on in my session, they're gonna stick it to me?" but what it is probably more about, is preventing that other type of person from, for example, cashing in & out all the time to get a higher VIP-level on e-wallets or whatever other (non-AML) scheme they may be running.

So I personally get both views: I get why the representative reacts how he reacts ("start your own casino and see how far you get without comparable terms") and I get why those firmly against it react how they react.

In the end though, this shows just how valuable this forum is, because when an operator gets more acquainted with the player perspective and visa versa, it can easily lead to small modifications to the term, that still protects the casino, without enraging the community.

So here's to more comparable discussions and - hopefully - meaningful change and a better understanding of things from both sides ?
Good pointers.

Ofcourse they need to protect themselves. All businesses do. If processing fees are an issue, places like Videoslots add a fee to every withdrawal after the first was successful. They have been doing it for years.

When you cloake those rules under the guise of AML then there is something else going on. The industry norm is 1x, and you quite clearly aim to make players wager more then they should. There is one reason for this and one reason only - to make more money.

The scary part is that this goes on without question until a reputable forum like this brings it into question. Due to the negativity and the brand being in the spotlight, they cave in and 'try' to accommodate our requests.

Nate
 

N3verEasy

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Location
Brussels
Completely agree on the cloaking part @Nate, it's important to be able to accurately explain why you have certain terms in place. If you can't or explain them wrong, it arouses immediate suspicion and it's hard to recover from there.

Regarding:
The scary part is that this goes on without question until a reputable forum like this brings it into question. Due to the negativity and the brand being in the spotlight, they cave in and 'try' to accommodate our requests.

Could be the truth, hard to tell. It's the cynical way of looking at it. The other way (naive way?) of looking at it, is that they genuinely do not enforce this rule on regulars / genuine players and never stopped to consider it might enrage them all the same, but that thanks to a discussion like this, they now do and can therefore adapt (without giving up what it is they are protecting against).

Given it's an accredited casino, I'm more leaning towards the naive way of looking at things, but it's impossible to tell from the outside of course. That a forum like this is important - either way you look at it - to bring this to light / discuss it, is something I do wholeheartedly agree with.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I used to like playing at KING BILLY but just yesterday I made a deposit played some(much more than 3x deposit) and requested a cashout. It was rejected without explanation. OK I played some more, requested a cashout and again this was rejected. I asked support and was flooded with a load of things eg. proof of deposits etc. The staff didnt even bother to provide an explanation.

Should the casino want further verification ask the customer for it instead of denying cashouts without explanation hoping the player will somehow lose back. This is poor.
 

Rs.Kingbilly

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Location
Ukraine
I used to like playing at KING BILLY but just yesterday I made a deposit played some(much more than 3x deposit) and requested a cashout. It was rejected without explanation. OK I played some more, requested a cashout and again this was rejected. I asked support and was flooded with a load of things eg. proof of deposits etc. The staff didnt even bother to provide an explanation.

Should the casino want further verification ask the customer for it instead of denying cashouts without explanation hoping the player will somehow lose back. This is poor.
Hi Chuchu,

I will have to look into that and discuss with our CSR's. I don't think there should be some issue if you have clear history and haven't been noticed in anything fraudulent. Please, PM your username so I could investigate.

Thanks
 

Rs.Kingbilly

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Location
Ukraine
Dear Chuchu59,

I checked with our CSR Team, and you had been verified with Us 100% and made cashouts without any issue. After removing some of the approved already documents from your account without a clear reason for that, you will need to undergo the KYC round once again. Please, upload the requested docs in PM. Nobody aimed to stall your withdrawal on purpose.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Dear Chuchu59,

I checked with our CSR Team, and you had been verified with Us 100% and made cashouts without any issue. After removing some of the approved already documents from your account without a clear reason for that, you will need to undergo the KYC round once again. Please, upload the requested docs in PM. Nobody aimed to stall your withdrawal on purpose.
I did not remove the docs from my profile. Just now your support staff gave me an entirely different reason for denial of cashout. Here it is:

Dear Paul,

Unfortunately, we more not accept scan copies of documents, only original photos according to our Terms and conditions.

11.17 In order to verify player`s account casino management require documents (ID, payment systems, utility bills еtc) in Latin or Cyrillic alphabet. In case player doesn’t have an opportunity to provide documents in above-mentioned alphabets casino reserves the right to demand video verification where player shows his/her documents. Scanned documents (ID/Passport) are not accepted. Documents should be photographed.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Long Live King Billy!
Play long and prosper!

Anton
The King Billy team

So which is true, - removal of docs from profile which was not my doing or that you now want re-verification as my previous docs were scanned copies. Please be truthful.
 

CasinoNinja

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
UK
Why would scanned documents not be accepted? Imagine bills, I think all of my bills are online exclusively.
Waste of paper otherwise
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Why would scanned documents not be accepted? Imagine bills, I think all of my bills are online exclusively.
Waste of paper otherwise
It's much easier to forge a document if it's scanned than a photo (thats not too hard either, but harder than clicking 'edit' on a PDF document).
Obviously the easy way round it is, alter it, print, then take a photo :)
 

Rs.Kingbilly

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Location
Ukraine
I did not remove the docs from my profile. Just now your support staff gave me an entirely different reason for denial of cashout. Here it is:

Dear Paul,

Unfortunately, we more not accept scan copies of documents, only original photos according to our Terms and conditions.


Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Long Live King Billy!
Play long and prosper!

Anton
The King Billy team

So which is true, - removal of docs from profile which was not my doing or that you now want re-verification as my previous docs were scanned copies. Please be truthful.
We have noticed that some changes with uploaded documents were made on your profile. I have to use the word "some", because logs are not available for support staff - we just see something has changed.
That arose question "why?" and "what?" exactly has been changed. We ran a check of all your documents and noticed that ID(you uploaded back in 2018) is a scan - not a Photo.
You have also received the same letter from Anton - payment representative that according to 11.17 T/C we have a right to ask a photo, not a scan. Back in 2018 - Scan was accepted.
Just the photo of id is needed for now, as I have added in the first reply.
I hope it will not overburden you to provide it, we are in 21st century and can easily take photo of ID and upload into your account.
It is a matter of 5 minutes max.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
So you were lying when you told me I removed my docs and I had to put them back. This is very dishonest of an accredited casino. As for the scanned ID , yes you can request a photo but not hold my cashout hostage as this is a new requirement from you. Hopefully, you can explain why your staff said I had removed the docs and that my cashout was denied because of this. Uploading a photo is simple but this poor experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as you had been dishonest. I shall now initiate a cashout and wont play again at Kingbilly.
 

Rs.Kingbilly

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Location
Ukraine
Dear Chuchu,

You are literally playing with words , and I passed all provided by our Head of CS. I didn't mean anything dishonest to you and tried to be helpful in your case. If there were missing some documents, our Team specified exactly what was missing and format required. We don't really understand the purpose of your complaint. And, apologise if we confused you at some point.
Please, upload the requested document and cashout without any problem.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Playing with words?

The following is what you wrote to me:
Monday at 5:48 PM

Here is the reply from our Head of CS:
we used to cashout him and he was verified - that is 100% true.
The issue is - player has removed some of his documents that were verified from his profile.
that is why all KYC process - has to be done from the scratch.
When Cashout is rejected - player received an auto email with the reason+ explanation.
What to do - Upload requested docs:
- Proof of identity: photo of passport or ID card (front and back in color)




Ruslan Legenzov, Head of Affiliates@King Billy Affiliates
Accredited Casino:

Did you not say it was I who removed the docs and that the kyc has to be done from scratch. You can argue as you like that you werent lying but basically now you denied a cadhout because you nnow do not accept a scanned id card. I notice you denied my cashout again. I am not going to be coerced into providing a photo of my ID when I am not in the wrong. I have my principles. I was verified, you changed your policy and denied a perfectly legitimate cashout.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
An update: To tie in with their story, I logged into the casino and discovered that the verification docs had just been removed from my profile. They were still there a day or so ago. This type of rogue behaviour is not what I expect from an accredited casino. With such dishonesty maybe its time for a PAB though I dont want to overburden Max.
 
Top