Kindred affiliates at it now, adding quotas

It's complicated. It's not comparable to Skybet, or BetVictor for that matter since those programs gave affiliates the "talk to the hand" treatment. Kindred has been open to negotiation on a case by case basis from what I understand. But I'm still looking into this situation.

So did Skybet though, I negotiated a different deal with them when quotas came in, and they are still dealing with some affiliates after the end of affiliatehub, so clearly they would negotiate with people, and unlike Kindred, they did stick to what they said, for a couple of years anyway. Kindred's 'negotiation' was to say no to some affiliates, as evidenced earlier in the thread & I was told that as long as I was trying and they could see that then they would not apply quotas. I got this a couple of months later

I noticed that your account has had no New Depositing Customers in the past 2 months.
Please bare in mind that this email is related to Affiliate ID: xxxx
If you have multiple accounts with Kindred Affiliates, could you please send me your primary and active affiliate account.
As per our e-mail sent out on the 22nd of March 2018 - 'Important changes to Terms and Conditions'
• 6.6. The Company reserves the right to reduce the Commission/change the Reward Plan if:
• 3. the Affiliate does not generate a minimum of 6 New Depositing Customers in a period of 3 months’
A New Depositing Player is one that registers and makes their first deposit in the same month.
These changes will come into effect on the 22nd of June, if 6 New Depositing Customers have not come through your account.

This was despite placing 2 x banners in prime positions on the website. So despite them negotiating they then just impose the quota anyway.

Hope that helps :)
 
I got the hammer today- Of course, they heard from me and my outrage over this predatory move.

Dear Affiliate,

On March 21st we contacted you with regards to an update to our Terms & Conditions which included the following clause:

6.6. The Company reserves the right to reduce the Commission/change the Reward Plan if:
3. the Affiliate does not generate a minimum of 6 New Depositing Customers in a period of 3 months


This clause came into effect on the day of the email, March 21st, with the necessary 3-month period having now passed on June 21st and you have failed to generate 6 New Depositing Customers.

We are therefore notifying you of our plan to reduce your commission plan to a 10% Revenue Share structure on 12th July 2018. This new reward plan will be in effect as of July 1st 2018.

Please note, this email is in relation to Affiliate ID: xx

If you feel that there is a reason this should not occur with your Affiliate account, please contact us at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
to discuss your partnership

If we do not hear from you within the next week, we will assume your acceptance of this change to your reward plan structure.
 
It's complicated. It's not comparable to Skybet, or BetVictor for that matter since those programs gave affiliates the "talk to the hand" treatment. Kindred has been open to negotiation on a case by case basis from what I understand. But I'm still looking into this situation.
Sky apparently relented for some affiliates after this move was heavily questioned in Gambling Insider? magazine (I was given this at LAC and read it) and didn't action this on all accounts. Whether they communicate well or not, the end result is the same; RS reduction and lots of bucks lost to you from there on in.
 
The only one of those you mention I've had much to do with is fullcream and they are excellent, in fact they are one of only around 5 affiliate programs I trust not to do anything dodgy at some point in the future. Downside is they seem to bonus ban people pretty quickly, and that affects revenue. Luke who oversees the Sunbets program was brilliant, however haven't dealt with him much with sunbets, and Matt used to be good at SkyBet, he was the only affiliate manager from the big bookies that would reply, usually in under a couple of hours. I don't think (up until this thread) I've had a single reply to around 10 emails sent to Kindred over the past few years, and they wonder why I don't send much traffic. Ignore me and I'll ignore your casino.

I agree with meeting people, where possible. I was watching the match with the owner of a small bookie/casino last night and after last night I trust him completely, whereas I hadn't even applied to the affiliate program before last night. Will the bookie last? I don't know, its a white label which usually puts me off, but I know he won't deliberately rip me off if I promote him.


Yeah Luke and Alison are fine - any aff people who buy me a 20-euro bottle of Trappist beer in Amsterdam are fine by me. :D
Still haven't been paid for May yet though...
 
Well, it looks like Kindred intends to proceed with screwing affiliates out of their commissions -- Bonustreak and colinsunderland both got hit this morning. They will now earn 10% on their past players -- ouch.

If you were earning 25% before, your new rate is a 60% reduction in your expected future earnings (BIG ouch), and if you had a 35% deal, that's a 71% reduction in your future earnings. SUPER BIG OUCH!

This is really egregious, and (IMO) not how Accredited companies should behave.

Would Kindred even care if they lost their Accreditation status or were tossed into the rogue pit here? Based on the way they are treating affiliates and completely ignoring this thread, I'm guessing the answer is "no."
 
HEY! Add me to the party! Got this a hour or so ago:

zkindredripoff.JPG


Well, I wouldn't have got 6 players anyway as I haven't promoted them for 2 years anywhere, it's a dead account due to having NCO applied to a not-so-big winner in my first month back in 2016.
 
I didn't market them either but I did market 32 Red and Roxy quite heavily in the past, now of course as Dave mentioned above my earnings are decimated, I will be earning pennies from my players, I worked hard for over 10 yrs to obtain.
 
Well this is definitely a messed up situation. Don't forget that I manage Ted Loh's 32Red affiliate account which is still active and sending money to his family on a monthly basis. I don't think I will be tossing that account to the wind any time soon. But implementing these terms retroactively to affiliates who do not agree with this is just plain wrong. I wish Kindred would reconsider what they are doing here.
 
Seems they are picking who to piss off and who not to piss off- Anyway, Dunover I sure hope you have removed all their brands on all of your awesome YouTube video slot reviews...
Won't sound like a lady here but they are next up for the bag of dicks award.
 
At one, quite inactive, account I'm put at 10 %, however I never ever agreed with the new terms. Other account no problems so far. Didn't agree with their new terms.
 
Watching this with interest. I only have a Kindred Account by virtue of being a 32Red Affiliate since way back. One of my best friends was a founding director of 32Red and Ed was my old MD at Ladbrokes in Gibraltar, prior to setting up 32R in 2002.

This just makes me feel very very sad. I have of course been in touch with the team at Kindred ( thanks Mark ) and so far all is well. The last thing I want to do is remove the 32R brands from my sites.

As many know I hate retroactive player quotas being forced onto affiliates. Sigh :(
 
What a terrible group! They closed ALL of our accounts today because we couldn't remember the username to login. Apparently that was enough to be in breach of their T&C because we were not actively promoting them even though they have been making monthly affiliate payments into the bank. LOL :D

Could someone let me know which casinos they work with so I can remove them all from our sites. Not going to give them free publicity!
 
What a terrible group! They closed ALL of our accounts today because we couldn't remember the username to login. Apparently that was enough to be in breach of their T&C because we were not actively promoting them even though they have been making monthly affiliate payments into the bank. LOL :D

Could someone let me know which casinos they work with so I can remove them all from our sites. Not going to give them free publicity!

You don't have to - simply redirect their traffic, that's what the big outfits/networks would do.

Kindred work with all segments of Unibet (i.e. Poker, Casino, Betting etc.) all segments of 32red, Poxy Palace, Maria Casino, Bingo.com, Storspiller/Storspelare, Huone, iGame, Kolikkopelit, Bohemia, VladCazino and that's yer lot.
 
Kindred CEO Henrik Tjärnström told analysts that “increased enforcement by the UK Gambling Commission [UKGC] is affecting 32Red.

I can only read that one way. When 32Red changed the way customers could self exclude it was suggested it was for profits, make it hard for problem gamblers to stop, more profit. As the enforcement action mentioned is relating to RG issues, clearly it was for extra profit. Obviously if there is more enforcement action that is affecting profits (more than the £2 million fine for example) feel free to tell us Mark.
 
Well this is definitely a messed up situation. Don't forget that I manage Ted Loh's 32Red affiliate account which is still active and sending money to his family on a monthly basis. I don't think I will be tossing that account to the wind any time soon. But implementing these terms retroactively to affiliates who do not agree with this is just plain wrong. I wish Kindred would reconsider what they are doing here.

Did you ever have any more thoughts on this, affiliates, as you can see from this thread, are getting screwed over, still seeing regular reports of accounts being closed elsewhere and now reports of some having NCO applied. Having said that I can see your hands might be tied with Ted's account and if you think doing anything might put that at risk, then I would completely understand :(.
 
Kindred CEO Henrik Tjärnström told analysts that “increased enforcement by the UK Gambling Commission [UKGC] is affecting 32Red.

I can only read that one way. When 32Red changed the way customers could self exclude it was suggested it was for profits, make it hard for problem gamblers to stop, more profit. As the enforcement action mentioned is relating to RG issues, clearly it was for extra profit. Obviously if there is more enforcement action that is affecting profits (more than the £2 million fine for example) feel free to tell us Mark.

888 is down 18% because of responsible gaming.

I think a significant part of the revenue of whatever casino is coming from problematic gamblers. Most casinos do not make any money with people taking a bonus, playing € 25 a month and bothering half an hour the customer service with silly questions.

On topic:

Kindred contacted me to get more exposure on some websites, which I am going to discuss with them. I didn't approve yet any t&c updates. I'll propose some addendum which clearly states that this quotum does not apply and that - besides in case of proven fraud - my account cannot be suspended, nor closed. I will see what's their reaction to that proposal. If they do not agree, it's not worth to take a flat fee and/or improved deal, because it shows they're simply not a trustable program.

My strategy is a bit dividing programs into casinos for the long run and casinos for the short run. The first group is casinos that appear everywhere on regulated markets, like Unibet, Mr. Green, etc. Sooner or later they'll do a Skybet, a Kindred, an LV or whatever, so I prefer to have a bit more security instead of a few bucks more.

The second group is typical .com casinos that serve just unregulated markets with an offshore license. With regulation everywhere, within a few years, they're done or act like a party that picks up a share of the black market everywhere. It makes no sense to bother about a better t&c with them as I consider them done relatively soon anyway. My goal with this kind of parties is to get the player value as fast as possible. Hence less RS, more CPA/flat.
 
888 is down 18% because of responsible gaming.

I think a significant part of the revenue of whatever casino is coming from problematic gamblers. Most casinos do not make any money with people taking a bonus, playing € 25 a month and bothering half an hour the customer service with silly questions.

On topic:

Kindred contacted me to get more exposure on some websites, which I am going to discuss with them. I didn't approve yet any t&c updates. I'll propose some addendum which clearly states that this quotum does not apply and that - besides in case of proven fraud - my account cannot be suspended, nor closed. I will see what's their reaction to that proposal. If they do not agree, it's not worth to take a flat fee and/or improved deal, because it shows they're simply not a trustable program.

My strategy is a bit dividing programs into casinos for the long run and casinos for the short run. The first group is casinos that appear everywhere on regulated markets, like Unibet, Mr. Green, etc. Sooner or later they'll do a Skybet, a Kindred, an LV or whatever, so I prefer to have a bit more security instead of a few bucks more.

The second group is typical .com casinos that serve just unregulated markets with an offshore license. With regulation everywhere, within a few years, they're done or act like a party that picks up a share of the black market everywhere. It makes no sense to bother about a better t&c with them as I consider them done relatively soon anyway. My goal with this kind of parties is to get the player value as fast as possible. Hence less RS, more CPA/flat.

I've had newer casinos in the past refuse to do a CPA deal when I've asked for it for 6-12 months so I can monitor the casino and if theres problems don't lose rev share, when they refuse I just wont deal with them. I much prefer rev share but not on new casinos, especially if they aren't part of a larger group. For example, I would probably do rev share for a casino launching under GIG, I wouldn't for someone like DR Vegas who were completely stand alone. I usually test the casino out myself and see how the retention is, if I sign up, make a couple of deposits, and never get any emails offering bonuses or anything, then thats likely to push me to CPA too.
 
I've had newer casinos in the past refuse to do a CPA deal when I've asked for it for 6-12 months so I can monitor the casino and if theres problems don't lose rev share, when they refuse I just wont deal with them. I much prefer rev share but not on new casinos, especially if they aren't part of a larger group. For example, I would probably do rev share for a casino launching under GIG, I wouldn't for someone like DR Vegas who were completely stand alone. I usually test the casino out myself and see how the retention is, if I sign up, make a couple of deposits, and never get any emails offering bonuses or anything, then thats likely to push me to CPA too.

A lot of new casinos are wanting to work just with RS. I do understand their point of view, as revenue share is sharing a profit and CPA is a risk if they pay too much CPA or flat compared with their player value, but nowadays I look more than before at my own business.

So many white label brands or new casinos pop up, close, turn rogue or close a market. At GIG, for example, Larry closed down, Tom Casino closed down, Every Matrix there are a few examples of brands that closed down or have payment problems, Quasar, OVO, etc. Also, brands that start with quite some ambitions. I think that in the UK we will see brands folding in the future too.

To work with RS is interesting if the casino is in for the long run. That means fair share in a regulated market and fair terms.
 

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