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Bitch and Moan kevins VS 888.COM Bonus

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by kevins, Apr 15, 2012.

    Apr 15, 2012
  1. kevins

    kevins Dormant account

    eCORGA complaint sent and complaint sent to 888.com

    See below complaint sent to eCORGA.

    New to the forum and new to online gambling (Except poker) and I have had a rubbish experience with 888.com. I would strongly discourage anyone from using them as it seems a rediculous policy they have.

    You can deposit money, risk it and unless you spend £3000 on the tables, you can only cash out what you put in??? does that sound fair?

  2. Apr 15, 2012
  3. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Turn right, then right. then right again
    You deposited, and received a bonus. You would then need to complete a wagering requirement before you can withdraw anything. Instead of completing this wagering, you decided to pull out your own deposit and continue to play with their money, which is comprised of the winnings. I think I've got it right so far?

    When you withdrew your deposit, the casino wiped out the bonus and winnings. You are upset that you weren't allowed to pull your own money out and play virtually risk-free. Yes?

    Your grounds for complaint are:

    1. Dyslexia. You couldn't read or understand the terms and conditions.

    2. You had gambling problems in the past and you weren't allowed to take back your deposit without consequence.

    3. You don't believe there should be any restrictions in regards to bonuses and it is all a scam.

    Well, firstly you write very well for someone with dyslexia. I've known some others in that same boat who really struggle with expression.....but maybe yours is very mild. So, if that's the case, there's no real excuse not to read and understand the terms. I mean, you're basically saying you knowingly agreed to a contract/agreement that you didn't/couldn't understand.....that in itself is a very poor choice, and, dyslexic or not, it is no excuse. If you weren't able to comprehend the terms, you should have had someone assist you e.g have a friend read them to you. Sorry, but complaint #1 is bogus....it is like a player who cannot speak or comprehend English depositing and taking a bonus and insisting the rules don't apply to them because they couldn't read them. It's ridiculous.

    Your second complaint is strange, and makes me wonder about the first one again. You say you've had gambling problems in the past, but that you're "New to online gambling except poker". Well, even poker rooms have bonuses and terms, so how did you manage to read those? Sorry, but I'm not convinced, because you ADMIT that you didn't want the bonus, BUT took no steps to have it removed I.e contact support, but rather you went to the tables and played.....even though you ADMIT you didn't understand what you were getting into (not convinced of that either).

    Lastly, you think that when you receive a bonus I.e. the casinos money, you should be able to withdraw your deposit at any time and play on their dime. Well, there are a few places that allow this (minus bonus amount) but they are few, and 888.com is not one of them (which you would have known had you read and understood the terms). So, in your opinion its a scam. Well, its a case of "there's no such thing as a free lunch" which any reasonable person knows, and such a person would also know there will be restrictions on what you can or cannot do with your bonus money.

    Requiring players to wager a certain amount before being able to withdraw anything is a reasonable method for the casino to give itself a reasonable chance to win to counter the extra chance they have afforded the player by giving them extra funds, and it is not an industry-wide "scam' as you claim (from your extensive experience in online casinos).....nor is it a huge issue for reasonable and sensible players. What most definitely IS a "scam" of sorts and a major issue is players not bothering to read and understand the terms attached to the bonuses they accept.....and then screaming blue murder when they lose their winnings because they broke a rule they "didn't know about". Well, in these cases, as in yours, it is because they did not read and understand the terms, EVEN though they agree to these terms when creating their account even before making a deposit (which I'm sure neither they nor you did either).

    The fact that you're dyslexic means that you should have done even MORE than the average player to ensure you understood your obligations. Sorry, but it is not an excuse.

    Treat this as a learning experience, as you have no chance with ecogra. If you require assistance with terms etc in future, I'm happy to help you as I'm sure others are too. Just accept you made a mistake and use it to grow wiser.
    2 people like this.
  4. Apr 15, 2012
  5. kevins

    kevins Dormant account

    Thanks for your reply Nifty,

    I have got a friend to write my complaint letter and yes sure, she should have read the T&C

    but I would like to clarify these points

    1) I deposited £200
    2) I risked the £200 and won £400+
    3) I did not get any bonus as I had not made the wagering requirements - I did not ask for one and thought I would get it once I hit the requirements.
    4) I was not told when I cashed out £200 that I would lose the rest. Had I known this I would have continued to play until I had reached that amount
    5) In a real casino I would win a few thousand, cash it out and keep playing with the profit. Why not online??? not a free lunch but a safe "Bank" to stop me gambling more than I want - I was in for £200 - had won £400 so wanted to keep £200 "Safe"

    I can not understand even if this is not a scam, how you can justify there terms. If you play and win, you cant walk away until you give them a chance to win it back - rediculous. I was not told I had a bonus when I joined up and was not told I could not cash out until wagering amounts were met. the first I know of it is when the balance dropped to £0 when I put a cash out request in.

    If I cashed out £10 - it would have still wiped off the winnings.

    Would there be any decent sites online that work in a simple way or are they all the same?
  6. Apr 15, 2012
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Hi Kevin

    Kudos to you for being adult about it all :)

    If you didn't receive a bonus, there cannot be any wagering required. The casino must have added a bonus to your account at some point.

    Can you post a transaction list at all? Maybe contact the casino and ask then to show when you received a bonus and for what amount.

    If they won't provide you with this information, or you are still not happy, visit this page for more advice:


    I'm a little confused however, as you initially stated you DID receive a bonus and couldn't opt out, but just now you state you did not receive a bonus. The information is extremely important.

    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 15, 2012
  9. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    East and West
    Most are pretty simple, as long as you make sure they know ... in their live chat ... that you do not want any bonus.
    Not all respect this, but I'd suggest you try out 32Red Casino, and let them know before you deposit and play, that you do not wish to recieve any bonuses. These guys are top notch, and if you ask them to do something, they do it.
    That way you can withdraw any amount you want, at any time, without a problem. (I should say, that some casinos request, that you wager your deposit once, before a withdrawal is permitted, to avoid being used as a cheap bank...read money laundry).
  10. Apr 16, 2012
  11. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Freelance Designer
    Edmonton Canada
  12. Apr 16, 2012
  13. kevins

    kevins Dormant account

    This is the transaction details, it did apply a bonus at the start but was never placed into my account???/available funds

  14. Apr 16, 2012
  15. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Your first bet was $10 which left you with a balance of $290.

    So, you did receive a $100 bonus.
    1 person likes this.
  16. Apr 16, 2012
  17. Mojack

    Mojack Dormant account

    The bonus was applied at 15:41
  18. Apr 16, 2012
  19. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Sorry kevins, but terms like these apply at nearly ALL casinos when a bonus comes in to play.
    If the casinos did not have Wagering Requirements (WR), then they would literally be giving away free cash and would go bust in no time.

    I'm not a huge fan of 888, but this is definitely NOT a "scam".
    Hopefully a mod will change the thread title to something more appropriate.

    2 people like this.
  20. Apr 16, 2012
  21. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    The PAB Guy
    Yeah I was thinking as much, done.
  22. Apr 16, 2012
  23. raj

    raj Dormant account

    Bingo Product Manager and in-running trader.
    I can understand the OP's upset over this however the fact is all bonuses have terms attached , without these they just could not be offered by the online casinos.

    As the headline bonuses have grown bigger so have the wager requirements, games and withdrawl restrictions attached to them.

    The state of play at the moment is not good for either operators or players.

    Operators have to offer bigger and bigger headline bonuses in order to attract new business, to ensure these remain cost effective they have no choice but to impose restrictions on them which are not particularly player friendly.

    Players are left feeling short changed after depositing and seeing that the playthroughs and withdrawl restrictions make the bonus practically worthless.

    Players could REALLY help this situation if when choosing where to play they paid a lot more attention to a sites reputation for fast payout, great customer support and fair games instead of just looking at the headline bonus figure.

    As a bingo operator I am faced with competitiors offering 1000% deposit bonuses and £30 No deposit bonuses. Of course when you read through the terms of these offers they are almost always not all they seem, however these kind of offers continue to work in attracting new players and to a certain extent I am forced to play the game in order to attract new business.

    Personally I try to keep my own offers fair and realistic, and give the player a chance of a decent cash out without too many restrictions. But ultimately its the eye catching huge bonus cash numbers on the banners that players seem attracted to.

    Whats needed is an education amonst players that all that glitters may not be gold.

    7 people like this.
  24. Apr 16, 2012
  25. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Not in workforce
    Kevins, most casinos that I play at require you to complete wagering on a bonus before ANY withdrawal is permitted.

    That you were able to quit and withdraw you initial deposit is actually more favourable to you than many casinos offer.

    It is very important to read and understand the terms at any casino you play it. It's not hidden that the first deposit bonus is applied automatically and that you must contact support if you wish the bonus to be removed.

    If your preferred games are table games, you will find that most often these games will contribute less to bonus wagering, and are usually subject to bet size restrictions. They may not be allowed at all on certain bonuses.

    Sorry that your experience at 888 left a bad taste in your mouth, but I don''t think they scammed you in any way.

    You'll gain a lot of knowledge here at CM, welcome to the forum.
    1 person likes this.
  26. Apr 16, 2012
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    STILL At Leisure
    United Kingdom
    Presumably eCogra rejected your complaint, otherwise you would not have come here to post about it having read the rules at eCogra that require you to refrain from posting in a public forum, blog, etc until the complaint has been dealt with.

    What has happened, as briefly summarised by Nifty, is that the bonus was credited, and a WR of £3000 applied to your entire bankroll. This means that bets to a total of £3000 have to be placed until a withdrawal can be made. I suspect that for Blackjack it is £30,000 as the game shows as "0.1" weighting in those transaction reports.

    888 have granted you an early exit from this contract by returing your initial deposit of £200. The only alternative would have been to reject your withdrawal until you had played through the required amount.

    A PAB here would also be rejected on the same grounds.

    This is how it is at EVERY casino that offers some kind of bonus. Every bonus will come with a set of rules and restrictions, and players should make sure they read and understand them before entering into an agreement to accept a bonus. If relying on someone to help them understand, such as in your case, they should ask the friend to explain the rules before any action is taken.

    It is rare for me to side with Nifty right from the start when there is a "player got screwed" story, so you are unlikely to find anyone else who agrees that you should have been paid your winnings and excused the rest of the WR just because you didn't like the degree of risk to your initial £200 that further play would entail.
    1 person likes this.
  28. Apr 16, 2012
  29. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Kobold Geomancer
    Just goes to show how the bonus and WR culture can catch out a new player though.

    Doubtless kevins will now just think himself lucky to have got his deposit back and give online casinos a wide berth from now until the end of time, and I doubt he'll be recommending them to friends either.

    No one wins!
    1 person likes this.

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