ATTN: Casino Rep Kerching - Dodgy promo email wording

ChopleyIOM

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OK then, be honest now, at which point would you catch on that this is a post-wager bonus?

Here's the email.

email.JPG

And like a sensible player, I clicked on the terms and conditions link.

Yes, clause 7 is the one to watch here, but even after reading it I still figured it was a deposit bonus and that they were talking about a wagering requirement.

terms.JPG

This is what I ended up with.

balances.JPG

Fired up Cleopatra 2, £50 balance only, busted out very quickly on 60p spins, back to the cashier and the £50 promotional balance was still showing as just that.

Decided to double-check with live chat.

chat.jpg

Fair enough it's ultimately my own fault, I took the email at face value, gave the T&Cs page the benefit of the doubt, and then realised that I'd taken on a post-wager bonus which I absolutely hate and would never have done so if I'd realised that's what it was.

However, I do feel that the promotional email is into the realms of deception. It absolutely isn't a 'DEPOSIT MATCH' and they are not 'offering an amazing 100% deposit match on your next deposit that you make up to £50 when you play one of our Egyptian themed games today.'

Oh well, I feel a bit suckered and stupid, truth be told.

Needless to say I will not be unlocking my AMAZING 100% DEPOSIT MATCH with the £1402 of wagering I still have left to do.
 

vinylweatherman

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It only says "non withdrawable", nothing to say you can't PLAY the bonus balance at all.

It should be the terms that make this clear, not live chat.

Even the line about "converting" the bonus doesn't tell you, this appears in most casinos as an explanation of how WR works.

They need an explicit term like "the bonus credits will only become playable and withdrawable once the wagering requirement has been completed".
 

ChopleyIOM

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It only says "non withdrawable", nothing to say you can't PLAY the bonus balance at all.

It should be the terms that make this clear, not live chat.

Even the line about "converting" the bonus doesn't tell you, this appears in most casinos as an explanation of how WR works.

They need an explicit term like "the bonus credits will only become playable and withdrawable once the wagering requirement has been completed".

Yeah that was my thinking on it.

They've basically used 'wagering requirement language' and applied it to a post-wager bonus.

Virgin send me emails about post-wager bonuses all the time, but at least their T&Cs are absolutely clear about how they work.

I think Kerching are arguably into the realms of deception with how they've presented the bonus here.

Here's how Virgin present a post-wager bonus, for comparison.

virgin.JPG
 

ChopleyIOM

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Term number 10.

The information is there, don't get me wrong, I blame myself for messing up - but I do think Kerching are absolutely straining at the edges of honesty with how they've worded the whole thing.

As VWM pointed out, the bonus showed as 'non-withdrawable' and not 'non-playable', which once again is in stark contrast to how Virgin present their post-wager bonuses in their software.

Also, the fact you need to get to term number 10 to see what is probably the only reasonably explicit reference to a post-wager bonus pretty much says it all......

EDIT - Plus, the bonus was already showing as credited to my account, albeit as 'non-withdrawable'.
 

just play

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Location
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The information is there, don't get me wrong, I blame myself for messing up - but I do think Kerching are absolutely straining at the edges of honesty with how they've worded the whole thing.

As VWM pointed out, the bonus showed as 'non-withdrawable' and not 'non-playable', which once again is in stark contrast to how Virgin present their post-wager bonuses in their software.

Also, the fact you need to get to term number 10 to see what is probably the only reasonably explicit reference to a post-wager bonus pretty much says it all......

EDIT - Plus, the bonus was already showing as credited to my account, albeit as 'non-withdrawable'.


I agree with you 100%, the way it's worded. Who wants to find out after reading the terms? It should be in plain sight. It should be like Virgin.

I was just answering your first question. :D

edit...plain sight, meaning as soon as you open your email
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

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United Kingdom
Term number 10.

Ambiguous, as the same language about the bonus being "credited" as you play is used for casino to describe the transfer of bonus money into real and withdrawable money. Given that many kinds of bonuses are offered, casinos must leave no doubt as to which type of bonus is on offer BEFORE a player deposits. Post wager boni are less common than other types, either withdrawable of phantom. Playtech and RTG casinos also have bonuses that are "non withdrawable", but this means something different, and such bonuses can still be played.

In fact, Kerching DOES show a credit of the £50 straight away as a "promotional balance", similar to how other casinos show the amounts of deposited and bonus monies separately.

Kerching are assuming that the player already knows how their bonuses work, and that they will get the correct impression from the terms.
 

just play

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Chopley and VWM,

I don't know why you are explaining things to me...I can't play there. I thought Chopley wanted an answer to his question? So I answered it.


OK then, be honest now, at which point would you catch on that this is a post-wager bonus?

I then simply answered...term 10.
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
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Oct 30, 2008
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What is the purpose of taking a deposit bonus if you have to clear the WR with your own money before you can even touch it?


I hate deposit bonuses. They're more trouble then they're worth.
 

bowlingbob

Full Member
Joined
May 1, 2008
Location
usa
I seen from the picture they have Crown of Egypt. Used to play that game a ton in land based casinos here. It packs a ton of potential with the 1024 ways pays. So jealous you can play it online from your country. Its basically a clone of White Orchids or Treasures of Troy but love the Egyptian theme to it.
 

ChopleyIOM

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What is the purpose of taking a deposit bonus if you have to clear the WR with your own money before you can even touch it?


I hate deposit bonuses. They're more trouble then they're worth.

I did start a thread asking that very question:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/post-wager-bonuses-whats-the-point.53780/

Some folks look at them as sort of a loyalty bonus and/or something that's a nice perk when such time comes around that they've met the wagering, as they're immediately withdrawable.

My view on that is that if I want to play with a bonus, I want the bonus upfront, otherwise I'd rather simply play with a straight deposit.

The extra sting with the Kerching 'bonus' in this instance is that you only get 7 days to complete the wagering otherwise you forfeit it.

If my run on Cleopatra would have continued, it would have cost me another £700 in deposits to unlock a £50 bonus!
 

wobble33

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Aug 16, 2004
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uk
chopley

i have had many of these £50 bonuses. i have lost big money on these bonuses and won big money playing big stakes. the reason why they want you to do the wagering first is if it was £50/£50 and bonus upfront. as soon as you bust the wagering is cleared. but doing it where you have to wager x30 first, they know you will probally chase the £50 and more likely to deposit a lot to clear the wr, so it benefits them. sly i admit, but not uncommon.
 

ChopleyIOM

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chopley

i have had many of these £50 bonuses. i have lost big money on these bonuses and won big money playing big stakes. the reason why they want you to do the wagering first is if it was £50/£50 and bonus upfront. as soon as you bust the wagering is cleared. but doing it where you have to wager x30 first, they know you will probally chase the £50 and more likely to deposit a lot to clear the wr, so it benefits them. sly i admit, but not uncommon.

Well that's the thing wobble, personally I hate post-wager bonuses and avoid them like the plague.

Some people seem to quite like them, which is fine, horses for courses and all that.

What's annoyed me about this promotion is that it's presented as a normal deposit bonus in just about every single way, yet it's actually a post-wager bonus.

Ultimately I must take responsibility for the cock-up, but I still feel that Kerching have pulled a bit of a fast one on me.
 

skiny

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I did start a thread asking that very question:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/post-wager-bonuses-whats-the-point.53780/

Some folks look at them as sort of a loyalty bonus and/or something that's a nice perk when such time comes around that they've met the wagering, as they're immediately withdrawable.

My view on that is that if I want to play with a bonus, I want the bonus upfront, otherwise I'd rather simply play with a straight deposit.

The extra sting with the Kerching 'bonus' in this instance is that you only get 7 days to complete the wagering otherwise you forfeit it.

If my run on Cleopatra would have continued, it would have cost me another £700 in deposits to unlock a £50 bonus!

I agree. Not to repeat your other thread but deposit bonuses should be designed to give you more play time. I always thought that was the entire point of them. The added money should help you clear the hefty WR not sit in limbo until you've managed to clear it with your own deposits. I don't like deposit bonuses because of all these rules that I can never keep track of but if people are having trouble getting some play time maybe a deposit bonus will give them a chance to reach that bonus feature before they go broke. If the bonus is untouchable even if they bankrupt their deposit the bonus is pointless.
 

Kerching

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Manchester, UK
Hi ChopleyIOM

I work for and represent Kerching Casino so naturally this thread is of real interest.

You may recall back in May you raised concerns on Casinomeister about Kerching’s RTP on Diamond Queen. This feedback was well received, we listened to the comments and subsequently made a decision to set all Kerching games to the highest RTP allowed.

In a similar vein we’re keen to respond to some of your concerns with our New Year’s Eve email.

Firstly, apologies if you feel you have been misled by our email I think we all agree it only takes one bad experience to lose a customer, as such we always try to be as transparent as possible, providing Terms and Conditions which are clearly signposted and easily accessible. That said, in light of your concerns we will look again at whether we can make our terms any clearer – if you have any suggestions on how they might be improved please feel free to email them to [email protected] .

With regards to our promotions we aim to give our players the best possible Gaming experience. We offer a different promotion every day of the week, 365 days a year. We typically offer two kinds of promotions, Cashback based on losses and Deposit Matches, which have a 30X turnover requirement. We routinely check the market and are confident that a 30X turnover requirement is very competitive.

In addition to daily promotions we also offer current players loyalty points and monthly bonuses depending on play. VIPs naturally receive further perks while new players enjoy a £100 sign up bonus. All in all we feel we offer a very strong player promotion package. Please feel free to keep updated on all promotions here -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

Rest assured we will look into this and hope that we have answered your concerns. Kerching Casino is always open to and appreciative of any feedback (good or bad) that will help us improve the player experience.

Best regards

Kerching
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi ChopleyIOM

I work for and represent Kerching Casino so naturally this thread is of real interest.

You may recall back in May you raised concerns on Casinomeister about Kerching’s RTP on Diamond Queen. This feedback was well received, we listened to the comments and subsequently made a decision to set all Kerching games to the highest RTP allowed.

In a similar vein we’re keen to respond to some of your concerns with our New Year’s Eve email.

Firstly, apologies if you feel you have been misled by our email I think we all agree it only takes one bad experience to lose a customer, as such we always try to be as transparent as possible, providing Terms and Conditions which are clearly signposted and easily accessible. That said, in light of your concerns we will look again at whether we can make our terms any clearer – if you have any suggestions on how they might be improved please feel free to email them to [email protected] .

With regards to our promotions we aim to give our players the best possible Gaming experience. We offer a different promotion every day of the week, 365 days a year. We typically offer two kinds of promotions, Cashback based on losses and Deposit Matches, which have a 30X turnover requirement. We routinely check the market and are confident that a 30X turnover requirement is very competitive.

In addition to daily promotions we also offer current players loyalty points and monthly bonuses depending on play. VIPs naturally receive further perks while new players enjoy a £100 sign up bonus. All in all we feel we offer a very strong player promotion package. Please feel free to keep updated on all promotions here -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

Rest assured we will look into this and hope that we have answered your concerns. Kerching Casino is always open to and appreciative of any feedback (good or bad) that will help us improve the player experience.

Best regards

Kerching


It is, and many players consider a 30x WR the norm. However, what you offer is pretty rare in the market, and as such should be made crystal clear. A "deposit bonus" with a 30x WR is taken to mean that the player deposits £x, and the casino adds £y to their bankroll. The 30x WR is then what has to be played before £x + £y + £<any winnings> can be withdrawn. The addition of £y is a critical part of the industry standard, and boosts the bankroll to give the player a greater chance of making the 30x WR on that deposit.

The Kerching offer does not boost the playtime from a deposit, so calling it a "deposit bonus" is misleading. It is really something along the lines of the "loyalty points" that many casinos offer, that build as one plays, and can be cashed in when a set amount of play has been made.

This offer has nothing to do with a particular amount deposited, it is a particular amount of playthrough needed in order to release a £50 loyalty amount, which can then be played or withdrawn. Like loyalty points, the amount that needs to be deposited to achieve a specific WR cannot be known in advance, so in claiming that it is based on a £50 deposit is misleading for those players who bust out on that £50 and are due nothing in return.
 

ChopleyIOM

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What VWM said, basically :)

Thanks for the response Kerching but basically I feel that the promo email you sent me is misleading and deceptive.

For example, this email from Sky Vegas arrived in my inbox today, offering a 100% match to a maximum of £25. The difference there is that the second I deposit £25, I have £50 to actually play with!

skyveg.JPG
 

Kerching

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Jul 24, 2008
Location
Manchester, UK
Thank you both for your feedback.

We appreciate you taking the time to comment and we will keep your valuable recommendations in mind when compiling our next mailer.

Best regards

Kerching
 

Ginske

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Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Location
Belgium
I got this email from one of the verry few non blacklisted online casino's in belgium promoting this game. Outfit beeing 777.be

The bonus was a mystery bonus that would be revealed AFTER a deposit ( in other words the player has no clue what he is getting untill after he makes a deposit )

This didnt appeal to me at all but as its an IGT casino, and i have never found one online i can play i went ahead and made a deposit anyway.

The bonus was a 50% deposit STICKY bonus... ( i deposit 25, got 12.5 non cashable as a bonus )

Seeing as minimum bet on this slot was 0.8 i gave it a pass and build my balance from 37.5 to 180 on da vinci diamonds.

At this point i went to Crown of Egypt determined to hit the free spin feature. Took a long while and i was rather dissapointed when it hit :

crow of egypt.jpg

From only about 200 spins i'm fairly confident saying this is a rather high variance slot. so beware :p
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Thank you both for your feedback.

We appreciate you taking the time to comment and we will keep your valuable recommendations in mind when compiling our next mailer.

Best regards

Kerching

These are the two latest mailers I've received, T&Cs are the same as before, both post-wager bonuses.

Very dodgy advertising IMO, please just be upfront and say they're post-wager bonuses, NOT deposit bonuses and certainly NOT a cash match.

latest.jpg
 

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