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kaave.com has plainly threatened a member .here is the mail

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Apr 20, 2006
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Turkey
The mail below was sent by kaave.com to Nursen Bulut.Nursen was an ex member of kaave.com.her member name was herpess. we met today.

Her membership had been terminated because kaave claims she had cheated at a BACKGAMMON game.For anyone familiar with the game, it is impossible to cheat at an online backgammon game. You do not throw the dice do you?She had about 600 in her account when her membership was terminated.

she found a way to take her money back. and then she recieved the following message from kaave.com it says:

YOU HAVE TWO HOURS TO STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING

THIS IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST MAIL THAT WILL EVER BE SENT TO YOU

GOOD LUCK

This site displays a Kahnawake logo and claims a kahnawake license.

Thanks!!!!

From: "Destek" <[email protected]>
To: "nursen bulut" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Kimlik Bilgileriniz
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:02:59 -0000


Yaptiginizi durdurmaniz icin 2 saatiniz var.
Bu size atilan ilk ve son maildir.
Bol Sanslar
----- Original Message -----
From: nursen bulut
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Kimlik Bilgileriniz


kımlık bılgılerımı bana neden gonderıyorsunuz. bende zaten var o bılgıler???
 
You should translate her email at the bottom, too.

Now I may be way off here - but:
You said she had found a way to remove her money
He said "You have 2 hours to stop what you are doing", Good luck"

To me that doesn't sound like a threat. To me that sounds like one employee saying "get it finished within 2 hours!". If it was a threat, why would he say 2 hours? Why wouldn't he say "stop immediately!!" Also, why would he sign off with Good Luck if it was a threat?

So it sounds like, whatever she was doing, if she could finish it in less than 2 hours, she was ok. So this email may have actually been a helpful email, perhaps from an employee who didn't agree with the way the casino had screwed her.

Just a thought.

Did she get her money out in the end?
 
the lines below belong to Nursen she says:

why are you sending me my identity information. i already have it.

if you have not interpreted kaave's message as a threat i think you have recieved no threats in your life.
 
TheBloke said:
...
So it sounds like, whatever she was doing, if she could finish it in less than 2 hours, she was ok. So this email may have actually been a helpful email, perhaps from an employee who didn't agree with the way the casino had screwed her.

Just a thought.

Yup, it looks like she had someone on the inside helping her, and that email was warning that she only had two more hours before the opportunity would end. Was it more like a guardian angel rather than a threat?
 
now i am sure my English sucks.

when i read it in Turkish ,it is a plain threat and she has no guardian angel inside and people are STILL taking their money back using the same method.

another attempt to translate.

you have two hours to quit what you are doing. this is the first and the last mail we shall send .good luck.

the good luck part may seem strange. but i think that is the way they are trying to conceal the threat or soften it.
 
dreamtheatre said:
now i am sure my English sucks.

when i read it in Turkish ,it is a plain threat and she has no guardian angel inside and people are STILL taking their money back using the same method.

another attempt to translate.

you have two hours to quit what you are doing. this is the first and the last mail we shall send .good luck.

the good luck part may seem strange. but i think that is the way they are trying to conceal the threat or soften it.


How about translating the question she posed to them?

Personally I have to agree that there's someone on the inside working *with* her. If there wasn't, her account, along with her money she was trying to get out, would have been locked immediately. Not 2 hours from then.


Also, was your original problem with them ever resolved? Bryan asked you not to keep creating many many many many threads (which you are doing) until it was...but yet you keep bringing up dirt on them? Why? Fighting fire with fire doesn't really work...usually works against you in the end..
 
i think i am very bad at expressing myself in English

everybody here agreed that the mail recieved by Nursen was a threat.

everybody there agreed that someone inside was trying to help.

i am at the moment talking with Nursen.and she absolutely has no friends inside. and yes she took her money back 45 days after her membership was cancelled. one person i referred to in my previous treads who claimed that 4000 dollars was withdrawn from his credit card without his permission also took his money back. and kaave.com did not pay these willingly . i have followed these members methods and made my application. i am sure i WILL get my money back too.

and these are ABSOLUTELY the last words i am writing.

i found much more understanding in my fellow ex-members than i found here.

thanks everybody and sorry if i have offended anyone unwillingly.
 
The beauty of this forum is that there are many,many members who try to take a balanced view in order to be as objective as possible. Slamming casinos/organisations without realising the whole picture is easy but will not result in issues being resolved. If enough information is provided then the members here can arrive at a conclusion and I am sure that you and the player in question will generate much sympathy.

As for the e-mail, well it's difficult to say it's a threat but to say it's a warning would be more appropriate. If, in kaave.com's view, the player is cheating or something like that, they are fully justified to warn you to STOP.
What else could they possibly say?

Dreamtheatre, please continue to post. Remember, the guys here are not fine-weather friends. Rather, they tend to look at the full picture before deciding simply because they are veterans who have heard many weepies before only to find out later that they have been conned into believing tall stories from roguish players. Dont worry about your English. It is perfectly understandable.
 
one last post and thanks chuchu59

one last post due to chuchu59's very nice words.

i think i failed to give the whole picture and now that i have read my posts once again i think i am responsible for the misunderstandings. here is what happened with Nursen. We have met just yesterday so i will write only what she has said without any comments of my own. If she is lying then both of us must endure the consenquences since i have brought this subject here.

1) nursen's membership was cancelled. she had 600 dollars in her account then. and she had lost at least 10.000 during the one year period while she was a member.

2) the reason was stated as alleged cheating in a backgammon game

3)Nursen sent lots of mails to [email protected] and recieved no reply

4)she applied her bank and asked all the withdrawals made by kaave.com to be returned back to her.

5) the bank cancelled all the withdrawals by kaave.com in the last three months.!!!!!!!!

6) Nursen began telling everyone she knew to be an ex member how she took her money back.

7) Many people took back their money the same way.

8) Nursen recieved the notorious mail i have TRIED to translate

9) i saw a post by nursen at the address
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


10) i found her msn and got in touch with her. we become friends quickly.

11) she told how to apply my bank

12) i did my application

13) now i am waiting.

Thanks
 
I entirely agree with you - I would interpret this as a threat also, although a weak one with no consequences I can see. The "two hours to stop" refers to the word-spreading to other players who instigated the same deposit-cancelling process - it plainly does NOT refer to stopping game play. This tallies exactly with the line of events described in the above post.

Three months to cancel deposits from your bank account? I didn't know they had such long clearing periods, and it certainly adds quite a layer of protection. Of course, this is the bank account equivalent of credit card charging back, and is only a last resort as you'll quickly get blacklisted.

Although you didn't get your winnings, I'm delighted you managed to exact such punishment on them, albeit one which won't have done you any favours in your future online play.

Did they actually give any details of this claim of backgammon "cheating"?
 
I have been a backgammon player for 30+ years and can't recall anyone cheating at this game of rolling dice. So I would very much like to hear how this was done if it was in fact done. Kaave.com - care to share?

Dream -- thanks for the clarification -- it makes complete sense to me now. Veiled threats are still threats.
 
suzecat said:
I have been a backgammon player for 30+ years and can't recall anyone cheating at this game of rolling dice. So I would very much like to hear how this was done if it was in fact done. Kaave.com - care to share?

Dream -- thanks for the clarification -- it makes complete sense to me now. Veiled threats are still threats.

Perhaps the player managed to find a pair of loaded dice online? :D
 
Sorry for spoiling your fun but

Actually, you can easily cheat in backgammon by opening backgammon analyser on the same computer and play the moves that the software's AI system tells you to do. I play in gammonempire and they easily catch these guys as they know how a computer would play (perfect moves).
 
I'm not a backgammon player, so please educate me...I don't see the harm in what you have suggested above if it is freely available to everyone. Some of the established casinos offer automated play for basic strategy on blackjack, which would seem to be the same sort of thing as you are suggesting here?
 
johndes said:
Actually, you can easily cheat in backgammon by opening backgammon analyser on the same computer and play the moves that the software's AI system tells you to do. I play in gammonempire and they easily catch these guys as they know how a computer would play (perfect moves).
Geeze -- that sucks! So there are real cheats out there that are screwing this casino over by playing "perfect play".

Is this really cheating though? I thought that cheating is more or less concerned with players peeking at each others cards, hacking the software, etc. Could you explain this further?
 
Ahem, class - pay attention.

Actually, I think this is a good opportunity to stop and define "cheat".

What does "cheat" really mean?

Well to keep things simple, let's just look at some definitions of the verb:

To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
Well that doesn't really apply here. Nobody was overcharged, underpaid, etc. Let's skip to the next one.

To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
Possibly - I don't think anyone was defrauded out of anything really, but perhaps the casino felt that using software (if indeed it was used) is a form of trickery. But then, aren't the players who are expert players and play perfect games tricksters?

To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
Ah ha! Perhaps this is what we're looking for. Being mislead. Perhaps the casino was mislead into thinking that the player was a real player, and not a player who was using some sort of AI software. How misleading.

To fool...illusions that cheat the eye.

How about casino managers who pose as players in message boards defending the acts of casino waywardness. Isn't this considered misleading? An illusion that cheats the eye? (metaphorically speaking)

Trying to fool people into thinking you are someone that you are not. That my friend is an example of a cheat.

johndes About you: just a player
IP 81.129.157.63

Kaave.com manager's emails (from my correspondence)
IP 81.129.157.63

An exact match.

So who is being mislead or cheated here?
 
Casinomeister said:
Trying to fool people into thinking you are someone that you are not. That my friend is an example of a cheat.

johndes About you: just a player
IP 81.129.157.63

Kaave.com manager's emails (from my correspondence)
IP 81.129.157.63

An exact match.

So who is being mislead or cheated here?

In memory of when I was in grade school ...

"Ooooooohhhhh, busted!!" :thumbsup:
 
Casinomeister said:
johndes About you: just a player
IP 81.129.157.63

Kaave.com manager's emails (from my correspondence)
IP 81.129.157.63

An exact match.

Haaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha.

Too funny.

Amazing they're still trying to pull these stunts.
 
Cheating in Backgammon

I think you don't understand what is cheating in backgammon.

They don't play against the casino or the company.

These guys by getting help from the computer they beat other honest people at the multiplayer tables.

Backgammon is not played against the casino, members play the game with each other.

So they do cheat, and there is nothing wrong that we post here to tell the truth.
 
So then you're both all screwed up. Dubious players that do baaad things to unlicensed casinos (?) that employ shills.

Okay, I finally get it.
 
johndes said:
I think you don't understand what is cheating in backgammon.

They don't play against the casino or the company.

These guys by getting help from the computer they beat other honest people at the multiplayer tables.

Backgammon is not played against the casino, members play the game with each other.

So they do cheat, and there is nothing wrong that we post here to tell the truth.

Do your T&Cs specifically mention that you will confiscate funds of players using computers to aid their play?

Is that why you confiscated the funds of the players that have posted here?

How do you determine that a player is using a computer program to aid their play?
 
johndes said:
I think you don't understand what is cheating in backgammon.

They don't play against the casino or the company.

These guys by getting help from the computer they beat other honest people at the multiplayer tables.

This isn't cheating. Assuming backgammon is a multi-player skill-based game like poker, I've had my ass whipped enough by players playing poker with their mega-bots to never touch the game online again. Nobody "cheated" me, they simply played optimally with additional, legal resources.

Also, listing yourself as "just a player" is example of the most spectacular deceipt. You are the manager, you claim to be "a player", and you calmly try to justify yourself??

As the manager, why do you lie about your identity? How do you think this makes you look to the community?
 
caruso said:
Also, listing yourself as "just a player" is example of the most spectacular deceipt. You are the manager, you claim to be "a player", and you calmly try to justify yourself??

As the manager, why do you lie about your identity? How do you think this makes you look to the community?

At least he came clean about his identity now.

Maybe we can get a little dialogue going and find out why they are confiscating so many players' money.
 
cheat?

i had told that i would never post again but after i read certain things i felt obliged to clarify some matters.i know i am contradicting myself and maybe losing confidence in your eyes but i have to make this final post.i have to remind some facts.

1)i had 836 dollars in my account when kaave.com cancelled my membership.and the reason was not CHEATING. i have never cheated in my life even at monopoly.i would never lose software to win whether it is allowed or not. i share my house with my boyfriend İlker. He used to be a member too .His membership was cancelled too. And the reason was just like mine . inappropriate behaviour(no details as to what this behaviour is) but i myself never threatened any player nor swore at anyone.and i am sure nor did he. but even while he was a member he thought kaave was a dubious place although he won much more than he lost while he was a member.

2) two people whose membership has been cancelled RECENTLY due to inapproprite behaviour (hasan8137,caldion34)had not logged in their kaave account for at least two months. did they attempt inappropriate behaviour using telepathy.

3)two people were caught red handed while cheating(codi,depbluesea).their membership was NOT cancelled. They were telling each other their hands.

4) there are at least 150 members whose membership has been cancelled for trivial reasons other than alleged cheating.Most of them had money in their accounts.Many were not warned even once.

5) i am not a dubious player trying to cheat an unlicensed casino.The only LIE i have written here is this: i do not need this 850 dollars cause i come from a very rich and reputable family.and i am not afraid to reveal my identity here. but half of the money belonged to my boyfriend and he does need the money.

6) this money was stolen from us so we have every right to pursue it.

7) the tread titled help me i really need this money was written soon after the tread kaave.com does not pay my money. when i saw that nobody was interested in the first tread i tried a more romantic approach and it is a very white lie since ilker is unemployed at the moment and is need of this money.



I will not take any post questioning my honesty too kindly. please avoid using accusations unless you have proof. I myself have always taken great care in selecting my words not to offend others. but as for thieves i will fight till the end.
 
He said she said

The casino contacted me several days ago stating that you had more than one account. Here is an excerpt - the names have been changed to protect..er, oh well - the names have been changed:

Coming to the player Mr. White on your forum. His actual name is Mr. Blue and his previous account (former Mr. Green) has been closed because he used to abuse all the players in the rooms and also our customer service representatives. He swears a lot and also creates a lot of problems in the tables. His account used to be closed temporarily many times. And a month ago we closed his account permanently.

So some time after, he opened an another account under a different name but from our system we did understand that this account is actually his account. (As a matter of fact he already told that he was Mr. Green in the chat rooms to his former buddies in the system). That's is why we closed his account as this player is trouble and we no longer want him in our system.

The first time we closed his account we sent his money back but as he is forbidden to open a second account, (it is our corporate policy not to encourage second accounts as all the gaming web sites do) we didn't refund his remaining balance in the second time. It took 2 days to discover that Mr. White was actually the former bad guy Mr. Green.
 
So he's accused of being an undesirable player - I recommended that the casino ought to at least refund his deposits.

You probably don't know the Turkish market and how abusive are Turkish players regarding the dialogue and the credit card fraud and cheating etc. We know what we are doing. If we do refund his money, he will open an another one and we can not let him do that, as we are loosing money on both ways at credit card processing and refunding.

And about the backgammon...

....Actually this member is posting information on your forums how to illegally do fraud and charge back your credit card purchases that you actually lost on the casino. It is not a good and legit information that should stay in your forum, none of the banks and casinos would like to read this on your web site.

Turkish people don't even read your forum and that's why it is not a concern for us but as it is in English and others do and the companies may even does.


There may not be that many Turks here, but Casinomeister had 485 unique visitors from Turkey in April. That's somethin'.

Anyway to the player: not much you can do but "roll with the punches."

In other words, take it like a man and move on - not much that can be done about it here.

And be nice to your fellow players. Remember "what comes around - goes around." In other words, what you do to others will evidentually happen to you.

And to Kaave.com, welcome to Casinomeisterland :D
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
 
facts

first of all i would like to be aware of this message when you recieved it, not several days after. from this approach of yours i sense that you took everthing written there as actual facts.

now my side of the story. unlike you i will reveal all the names.

Coming to the player Mr. White on your forum[/B] : that must be aysegul member name oguzhan_. but i am not a he. i am a girl.

His actual name is Mr. Blue and his previous account (former Mr. Green) has been closed because he used to abuse all the players in the rooms and also our customer service representatives. : my name is aysegul not a mr. the mr mentioned is my boyfriend ilker. the third name is fabricated. there is just two of us involved.while becoming a member in this forum you had asked information about myself,favourite films ,songs etc. there i wrote : me and my boyfriend ilker like online gambling. ilker NEVER abused other players but he used harsh words to customer represantatives. that is right. and these words were used in the mails that were sent to them.and the story of his account being closed is exactly as follows: he lost 2000 at five card draw one day. his opponents made very very lucky draws. he sent a mail to [email protected] as follows: .

"i do not believe that the cards arent dealed randomly at this site .please cancel my membership." he asked to CANCEL his membership and his membership was cancelled . but with a major difference. the message did not say : "your membership was cancelled because you asked it". it said"your membership was cancelled because of inappropriate behaviour." He never abused other players . of course he might have retailated if his opponent uses harsh words.
as for tree names white,blue ,green there is two of us me and ilker the third name is fabricated

He swears a lot and also creates a lot of problems in the tables. He never swears . at one time his opponet told thim he would cut his throat. i was watching the game. he did not even swear at him.he just said lets pick a place to meet.

His account used to be closed temporarily many times. true his account was closed many times because he asked kaave to close it. everytime he lost he decided not to play again. sent a mail to kaave.com to cancel his membership .and they did. after a few days he changed his mind sent another mail to reactivate his account . and kaave reactivated his account AT ONCE. they saw no harm to reactivate the account of this very dangerous man.this cycle happened at least 10-15 times

And a month ago we closed his account permanently. i told the real story about this at the beginning of this tread.

So some time after, he opened an another account under a different name but from our system we did understand that this account is actually his account.
that is my account. i am perfectly entitled yo open an account. i am over 18 and i like online gambling there is no rule against that. actually i used to play a lot while his account was active.

(As a matter of fact he already told that he was Mr. Green in the chat rooms to his former buddies in the system). That's is why we closed his account as this player is trouble and we no longer want him in our system.

i never said that i was ilker . i said i knew ilker. and that is a fact. i know him very well.

The first time we closed his account we sent his money back but as he is forbidden to open a second account, (it is our corporate policy not to encourage second accounts as all the gaming web sites do) we didn't refund his remaining balance in the second time. It took 2 days to discover that Mr. White was actually the former bad guy Mr. Green.

they never before closed İlker's account. each time he had it cancelled by sending a mail..as for the we sent his money back the first time here is the story:

that day ilker had 1100 in his account. he lost 1000. he had 100 left .he was angry again. (but very important detail when he loses he NEVER tells bad things to his opponents . he is always angry with the site) . he requested to withdraw the remaning 100 and he sent one of his usual mails to kaave.com. please cancel my account if it will not prevent me from recieving the last 100 i have requested to withdraw. they said we will cancel your account after you recieve your money. but later this last hundred did not arrive. so ilker sent mails saying that he would write to forums, to kahnawake etc. losing money while gambling and having your money stolen are different things. you lose 5000 get angry and forget about it a few days later but if 10 dollars are stolen you can not stand it. then a few days later he tried to login. and he did!!! he sent a mail "why did you reactivate my account i did not ask to?" they answered "so that you can withdraw the 100 " (i wonder if it were 1000 would they do the same thing. ) instead of withdrawing he played with the 100. he sent a mail "can i keep on playing" they said yes and that was at least 7 months ago.
 
We are hearing stories from both sides and I cannot come to a conclusion yet but one thing is certain and that is that dreamtheatre should ask her boyfriend to control his emotions. The life threats ie throat cutting are well over the top and you should ask him not to respond instead of hitting back. Dont let this deteriorate further. And yes, it may not be such a good idea to use your real names. You just never know what will happen.
 
Casinomeister said:
Trying to fool people into thinking you are someone that you are not. That my friend is an example of a cheat.

johndes About you: just a player
IP 81.129.157.63

Kaave.com manager's emails (from my correspondence)
IP 81.129.157.63

An exact match.

So who is being mislead or cheated here?

Priceless Bryan. You have such a way of telling a story, lol. :)
 
dreamtheatre said:
first of all i would like to be aware of this message when you recieved it, not several days after. from this approach of yours i sense that you took everthing written there as actual facts.

That is not really fair. It seems like CM put some time into this and tried to help resolve it, but the casino is sticking to its story and refusing to pay.

If the casino won't pay, they won't pay. At least they are listed in the Rogue section now, and potential players will be warned.

By the way, I believe your end of the story.
 
found something interesting

taken from www.pokerroomreview.com

Outdated URL (Invalid)


Online Poker Alert
Kaave.com Alert 04/26/2006 04:34 PM
There have been multiple complaints made regarding Turkish Casino and Poker Room Kaave.com for accounts being blocked and money seized with no explanation, as well as unauthorized withdrawals from players credit cards. Additionally, Kaave.com claims to be a member of the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, but Kahnawake has confirmed this room does not a gaming license with their organization.
 
this very nice and kind(literally it is a very kind and polite mail full of lies)mail was sent by kaave.com to my dangerous!!,swearing!! and problem boyfriend whom they did not want in their site as a player. he was inquiring about their legitimacy. i tried to translate some important paragraphs.

English is not my native language so this is not a perfect translation.

From: "Destek" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "ilker zorlu" <[email protected]>
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: kaave.com hakkında
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:31:22 -0000

Merhabalar Ilker Bey, Hi Mr İlker

Oncelikle guzel ve olgun mailiniz icin sagolun. First of all thanks for your nice and mature mail

Boyle uzun bir maila cevap yazmak zor olucak ancak oncelikle guven diyecegiz.

Eger ellere mudahele eden bir program olsaydi, tam tersi dagilimlar rastlantisal olmaktan cikip bir pattern olusturucakti ve asil o zaman guvenli olmayan ve iyi analiz edilince yenilebilen bir sistem olusurdu. Oysa bizim butun taslar, zarlar ve kagitlarimiz ust duzey bir Random Number Generator (RNG) dedigimiz bir program sayesinde rastlantisal olarak yaratiliyorlar.

Herhalde boyle bir seyin yapilmasinin mantikli olmamasi icin en gecerli sebep bu olur.

Bu arada butun poker sitelerinden bir pattern olmasina gelince, bu istatistikde genel olarak anlatilan bir konudur. Ve esasinda cok basittir.
Yazi tura gelme ihtimali, %50 dir.
100 defa zar atilsa ve hepsi tura gelsede. 101 inci atilista yazi gelme ihtimali guclenmez yine %50 dir.
ANCAK 100.000 para atilsa esasinda yazi ve turalarin orani yaklasik %50 olan bir pattern sanirim gozukecektir. AMA asla bu bir kesinlik degildir, 100.000 para atilip da hepsi turada olabilir. EN onemlisi bir sonraki para atisi yine %50 ihtimaldir.
Bahsedilen kart dagilim olayida budur, evet daha onceden dagitilan kagitlardan bir pattern olusturup bir sonraki dagitimlari tahmin edilebilecegi dusunulebilir ama yinede bir sonraki dagilim her sey den bagimsizdir, bu sadece insani bir yanilsamadir.

Biz ciddi bir sekilde denetlenen bir firmayiz, resmi olarak lisansliyiz. Lisansimiz pokerroom, pokerstars vs gibi dunya devi sirketlerin isletildigi Kanada daki Kahnawake bolgesinden. We are a firm which is seriously audited and we are officially licensed. Our license is issued from the Kahnawake region in Canada which issues licences to world famous companies like pokerroom and pokerstars etc.

Biz bu bolgede isletilmeden once butun urunlerimizi ve RNG yi Gaming Associates a test ettirdik, ve kendilerinden onay verilince bu bolgede isletilmeye basladik. Zaten baska turlu lisans alamazdik.. Before operating in this region we had all our software and RNG tested by Gaming Associates.And after we had their approval we started functioning. OPtherwise we could not have had a license.

Ancak sirketimizin ic yazismalari, mudur isimlerinin gectigi bu tip sertifikasyonlari boyle bir sektorde uyelerimize gondermemizin mumkun degil. Bu sertifikasyonlar ISO gibi standart belgeler vermiyor, sadece lisans alacaginiz bolgeye bu sirketin urunleri temizdir ve guvenlidir diye yazi yaziyorlar.

Piyasada hic bir kumar lisansi olmayan ve hic bir yerden test edilmemis Turk sirketleri var, biz bunlardan biri degiliz. Hizmetimiz hic bir zaman aksamadi, hic bir zaman hack edilmedik, hic bir zaman guvenlik acigi vermedik, hesaplarimiz kapanmadi, hosting yeri degistirmedik, cunku tamamen kanuni profeyonel bir sirketiz ve denetleniyoruz, hic merak etmeyin. There are turkish online casino sites in the market which have no gambling license and which did not have their software checked at all. We are not one of these. Our services naver failed,we were never hacked,we had no security leaks, our accounts were not closed,we never changed our hosting places,because we are a completely legal professional company and dont worry we are being audited

Saygilarimizla
----- Original Message -----
From: ilker zorlu
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: kaave.com hakkında


İyi gnler

Benim ismim İlker Zorlu. Sitenize aliparlar ye adıyla yeyim.

Endstri mhendisiyim. Deniz kuvvetlerindeki grevimi takiben, şu an zel bir şirkette satış ve pazarlama şefi olarak grev yapmaktayım.

35 yaşındayım ve yaklaşık 17 seneden beri kumar oynamaktayım. casinolar aıkken casinolardada(akgn ve polat otellerinde) uzun zaman blackjack ve rulet oynadım.

Sitenize yaklaşık 16 aydır yeyim ve bu sre zarfında hesabımı değişik insanlar kullandığından (şu an ye olan hasan 8137,codi,depbluesea,muhatxx benim hesabımdan ok oyun oynadılar) tam olarak ne durumdayım bilmiyorum ama tahmini olarak benim şahsi olarak 16 ayda yaklaşık 8 bin dolar karım var. Sonuta sitenizde kar ettim bu durum (yani kumarda uzun sre zarfı ierisinde kar etmek)kumar oynayan bir insanın ok seyrek yaşayabileceği bir durumdur.
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Ancak 100 bin dolar kazansamda benim aklımda hep bir şphe var. Sistem istediği zaman kazanıyorum istemediği zaman kaybediyorum diye.Arkadaşlar sitenizle ilgili sorular soruyorlar .rneğin paramızı derlermi diyorlar.Evet kesinlikle derler diyorum. Kredi kartlarımızla ilgili sahtekarlık yaparlarmı diyorlar kesinlikle yapmazlar diyorum. ama bu oyunlarda hile varmı dediklerinde kesinlikle yok diyemiyorum.nk sonuta buna emin değilim ve buna eminolmamızı sağlayan hi bir kanıt yok.Sonuta taşlarıda kağıtlarıda dağıtılırken grmyoruz ki.

Size ne kadar sama sapan mailler atsakta cevap yazıyorsunuz buna mteşekkiriz. ancak bizim mşterilerimiz bizim şirketin kalitesi ile ilgili bi soru sorduklarında buyrun diyoruz size bureu veritastan aldığımız iso belgesi yada almanyadan aldığımız zel kalite belgesi.siz neden bize ısrarla bu sitedeki oyunların tamamem rassal olduğuna dair bir belge veya bunları kontrol eden şyle şyle bir şirket var i! şte oradan aldığımız belge demiyorsunuz. Srekli bunu neden yapalım diyorsunuz? Yaparsınız demiyorum ama yapmak isteniz yapmanız iin bir sr sebep var. Hi bir kumarhane mşterilerinin ok fazla kaybetmesini veya daimi mşterilerinin uzun zaman kaybetmesini veya potansiyel mşterilerin daha ilk gnlerinde fazla kaybetmesini istemez .

Depbluesea (G. dağdeviren) benim ok yakın arkadaşım. Yıllardır aynı masada oyun oynarız ve o srekli kaybeder.Sitenize ye olduktan sonra ok kısa zamanda bir sr para kazandı. oynarken onu bir ka sefer izledim gelen taşlar aklımızı hayalimizi durdurdu. ona karşı oynayan bir rakip olsam monitr yerdim vallahi.(son gndr iş icabı ankaradayım son gn ne yaptı bilmiyorum)

Benim erkek kardeşim zer Zorlu Boğazii niversitesi Bilgisayar Mhendisliği mezunu ve SAP trkiyede ABAP yazılım programı uzmanı. Olduka iyi bir bilgisayar programcısı. sizin teknik aıdan mmkn değil dediğiniz maddeleri ona sordum kesin cevap vermedi ama mmkn olduğunu dşndğn syledi.

İnternet pokeri zerine bir ok makale okudum ve oğunda internetten oynanan pokerde bir sistem olduğu ve tamamen rassal olmadığı yazıyordu. party poker veya expekt gibi sitelerde bile bir pattern bulunduğu iddia ediliyordu.

Bizi ikna edecek, aklımızın rahat olmasını sağlayacak, şphelerimizi ortadan kaldıracak ve bylece sitenizin tanıtımını daha rahat yapabileceğimiz bir cevap gndermenizi rica ediyorum.

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How about another English adage? "You're beating a dead horse."

Sorry, but I think it's time to put this to rest. There is no reason to go on about this - really. I've invested enough time with this, and I refuse to invest more - you and your threads are sucking up resources that need to be directed towards more pressing issues like a pile of PABs that are staring at me.

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