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kaave.com has plainly threatened a member .here is the mail

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by dreamtheatre, May 1, 2006.

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    May 1, 2006
  1. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    The mail below was sent by kaave.com to Nursen Bulut.Nursen was an ex member of kaave.com.her member name was herpess. we met today.

    Her membership had been terminated because kaave claims she had cheated at a BACKGAMMON game.For anyone familiar with the game, it is impossible to cheat at an online backgammon game. You do not throw the dice do you?She had about 600 in her account when her membership was terminated.

    she found a way to take her money back. and then she recieved the following message from kaave.com it says:

    YOU HAVE TWO HOURS TO STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING

    THIS IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST MAIL THAT WILL EVER BE SENT TO YOU

    GOOD LUCK

    This site displays a Kahnawake logo and claims a kahnawake license.

    Thanks!!!!

    From: "Destek" <destek@kaave.com>
    To: "nursen bulut" <bulut1972@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Kimlik Bilgileriniz
    Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:02:59 -0000


    Yaptiginizi durdurmaniz icin 2 saatiniz var.
    Bu size atilan ilk ve son maildir.
    Bol Sanslar
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: nursen bulut
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:58 PM
    Subject: RE: Kimlik Bilgileriniz


    kımlık bılgılerımı bana neden gonderıyorsunuz. bende zaten var o bılgıler???
     
  2. May 1, 2006
  3. TheBloke

    TheBloke Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Database programmer
    Location:
    London
    You should translate her email at the bottom, too.

    Now I may be way off here - but:
    You said she had found a way to remove her money
    He said "You have 2 hours to stop what you are doing", Good luck"

    To me that doesn't sound like a threat. To me that sounds like one employee saying "get it finished within 2 hours!". If it was a threat, why would he say 2 hours? Why wouldn't he say "stop immediately!!" Also, why would he sign off with Good Luck if it was a threat?

    So it sounds like, whatever she was doing, if she could finish it in less than 2 hours, she was ok. So this email may have actually been a helpful email, perhaps from an employee who didn't agree with the way the casino had screwed her.

    Just a thought.

    Did she get her money out in the end?
     
  4. May 1, 2006
  5. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    the lines below belong to Nursen she says:

    why are you sending me my identity information. i already have it.

    if you have not interpreted kaave's message as a threat i think you have recieved no threats in your life.
     
  6. May 1, 2006
  7. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Yup, it looks like she had someone on the inside helping her, and that email was warning that she only had two more hours before the opportunity would end. Was it more like a guardian angel rather than a threat?
     
  8. May 1, 2006
  9. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    now i am sure my English sucks.

    when i read it in Turkish ,it is a plain threat and she has no guardian angel inside and people are STILL taking their money back using the same method.

    another attempt to translate.

    you have two hours to quit what you are doing. this is the first and the last mail we shall send .good luck.

    the good luck part may seem strange. but i think that is the way they are trying to conceal the threat or soften it.
     
  10. May 2, 2006
  11. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    How about translating the question she posed to them?

    Personally I have to agree that there's someone on the inside working *with* her. If there wasn't, her account, along with her money she was trying to get out, would have been locked immediately. Not 2 hours from then.


    Also, was your original problem with them ever resolved? Bryan asked you not to keep creating many many many many threads (which you are doing) until it was...but yet you keep bringing up dirt on them? Why? Fighting fire with fire doesn't really work...usually works against you in the end..
     
  12. May 2, 2006
  13. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    i think i am very bad at expressing myself in English

    everybody here agreed that the mail recieved by Nursen was a threat.

    everybody there agreed that someone inside was trying to help.

    i am at the moment talking with Nursen.and she absolutely has no friends inside. and yes she took her money back 45 days after her membership was cancelled. one person i referred to in my previous treads who claimed that 4000 dollars was withdrawn from his credit card without his permission also took his money back. and kaave.com did not pay these willingly . i have followed these members methods and made my application. i am sure i WILL get my money back too.

    and these are ABSOLUTELY the last words i am writing.

    i found much more understanding in my fellow ex-members than i found here.

    thanks everybody and sorry if i have offended anyone unwillingly.
     
  14. May 2, 2006
  15. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    The beauty of this forum is that there are many,many members who try to take a balanced view in order to be as objective as possible. Slamming casinos/organisations without realising the whole picture is easy but will not result in issues being resolved. If enough information is provided then the members here can arrive at a conclusion and I am sure that you and the player in question will generate much sympathy.

    As for the e-mail, well it's difficult to say it's a threat but to say it's a warning would be more appropriate. If, in kaave.com's view, the player is cheating or something like that, they are fully justified to warn you to STOP.
    What else could they possibly say?

    Dreamtheatre, please continue to post. Remember, the guys here are not fine-weather friends. Rather, they tend to look at the full picture before deciding simply because they are veterans who have heard many weepies before only to find out later that they have been conned into believing tall stories from roguish players. Dont worry about your English. It is perfectly understandable.
     
  16. May 2, 2006
  17. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    one last post and thanks chuchu59

    one last post due to chuchu59's very nice words.

    i think i failed to give the whole picture and now that i have read my posts once again i think i am responsible for the misunderstandings. here is what happened with Nursen. We have met just yesterday so i will write only what she has said without any comments of my own. If she is lying then both of us must endure the consenquences since i have brought this subject here.

    1) nursen's membership was cancelled. she had 600 dollars in her account then. and she had lost at least 10.000 during the one year period while she was a member.

    2) the reason was stated as alleged cheating in a backgammon game

    3)Nursen sent lots of mails to This email is not visible to you. and recieved no reply

    4)she applied her bank and asked all the withdrawals made by kaave.com to be returned back to her.

    5) the bank cancelled all the withdrawals by kaave.com in the last three months.!!!!!!!!

    6) Nursen began telling everyone she knew to be an ex member how she took her money back.

    7) Many people took back their money the same way.

    8) Nursen recieved the notorious mail i have TRIED to translate

    9) i saw a post by nursen at the address You must register/login in order to see the link.

    10) i found her msn and got in touch with her. we become friends quickly.

    11) she told how to apply my bank

    12) i did my application

    13) now i am waiting.

    Thanks
     
  18. May 2, 2006
  19. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I entirely agree with you - I would interpret this as a threat also, although a weak one with no consequences I can see. The "two hours to stop" refers to the word-spreading to other players who instigated the same deposit-cancelling process - it plainly does NOT refer to stopping game play. This tallies exactly with the line of events described in the above post.

    Three months to cancel deposits from your bank account? I didn't know they had such long clearing periods, and it certainly adds quite a layer of protection. Of course, this is the bank account equivalent of credit card charging back, and is only a last resort as you'll quickly get blacklisted.

    Although you didn't get your winnings, I'm delighted you managed to exact such punishment on them, albeit one which won't have done you any favours in your future online play.

    Did they actually give any details of this claim of backgammon "cheating"?
     
  20. May 2, 2006
  21. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    I have been a backgammon player for 30+ years and can't recall anyone cheating at this game of rolling dice. So I would very much like to hear how this was done if it was in fact done. Kaave.com - care to share?

    Dream -- thanks for the clarification -- it makes complete sense to me now. Veiled threats are still threats.
     
  22. May 2, 2006
  23. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Perhaps the player managed to find a pair of loaded dice online? :D
     
  24. May 3, 2006
  25. johndes

    johndes Dormant account

    Occupation:
    consultant
    Location:
    uk
    Sorry for spoiling your fun but

    Actually, you can easily cheat in backgammon by opening backgammon analyser on the same computer and play the moves that the software's AI system tells you to do. I play in gammonempire and they easily catch these guys as they know how a computer would play (perfect moves).
     
  26. May 3, 2006
  27. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I'm not a backgammon player, so please educate me...I don't see the harm in what you have suggested above if it is freely available to everyone. Some of the established casinos offer automated play for basic strategy on blackjack, which would seem to be the same sort of thing as you are suggesting here?
     
  28. May 3, 2006
  29. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Geeze -- that sucks! So there are real cheats out there that are screwing this casino over by playing "perfect play".

    Is this really cheating though? I thought that cheating is more or less concerned with players peeking at each others cards, hacking the software, etc. Could you explain this further?
     
  30. May 3, 2006
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Ahem, class - pay attention.

    Actually, I think this is a good opportunity to stop and define "cheat".

    What does "cheat" really mean?

    Well to keep things simple, let's just look at some definitions of the verb:

    To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
    Well that doesn't really apply here. Nobody was overcharged, underpaid, etc. Let's skip to the next one.

    To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
    Possibly - I don't think anyone was defrauded out of anything really, but perhaps the casino felt that using software (if indeed it was used) is a form of trickery. But then, aren't the players who are expert players and play perfect games tricksters?

    To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
    Ah ha! Perhaps this is what we're looking for. Being mislead. Perhaps the casino was mislead into thinking that the player was a real player, and not a player who was using some sort of AI software. How misleading.

    To fool...illusions that cheat the eye.

    How about casino managers who pose as players in message boards defending the acts of casino waywardness. Isn't this considered misleading? An illusion that cheats the eye? (metaphorically speaking)

    Trying to fool people into thinking you are someone that you are not. That my friend is an example of a cheat.

    johndes About you: just a player
    IP 81.129.157.63

    Kaave.com manager's emails (from my correspondence)
    IP 81.129.157.63

    An exact match.

    So who is being mislead or cheated here?
     
    7 people like this.
  32. May 3, 2006
  33. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    In memory of when I was in grade school ...

    "Ooooooohhhhh, busted!!" :thumbsup:
     
  34. May 3, 2006
  35. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Haaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha.

    Too funny.

    Amazing they're still trying to pull these stunts.
     
  36. May 3, 2006
  37. johndes

    johndes Dormant account

    Occupation:
    consultant
    Location:
    uk
    Cheating in Backgammon

    I think you don't understand what is cheating in backgammon.

    They don't play against the casino or the company.

    These guys by getting help from the computer they beat other honest people at the multiplayer tables.

    Backgammon is not played against the casino, members play the game with each other.

    So they do cheat, and there is nothing wrong that we post here to tell the truth.
     
  38. May 3, 2006
  39. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    So then you're both all screwed up. Dubious players that do baaad things to unlicensed casinos (?) that employ shills.

    Okay, I finally get it.
     
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