Jupiter Club (Microgaming) cancels payment on cheques...

[superargos]

I've already posted about this on another major message-board but the more who knows about it the better.

Recently I cashed cheques recieved from Jupiter Club and Fortune Junction (both part of the same group of Microgaming casinos). Last week I found out that the cheque from Jupiter Club had bounced and today I got the following email from both Jupiter Club and Fortune Junction:

'Dear Player,

Please note that your cashin has been processed as a check
refund in May. However, these checks have been stopped
by our risk management department.

Please do not try to deposit these checks as they have been
stopped.

Our risk management team will be contacting you shortly
with the outcome of their investigation.

We do apologise for the inconvenience experienced.'

And this after I send them several documents to verify my identity AND answer a phonecall from them to verify my personal details. I even signed a purchase history to protect the casino against charge-backs though apparently they find that they have the right to charge back my winnings.

Why there were unable to put my account under review by risk management and wait for the outcome of that investigation BEFORE they cancel payment on my cheque is beyond me. I know for sure that I am not the only one this has happened to, though I strongly suspect the problem is confined to players of Danish origin. Anyway, I urge all players to keep away from this group of casinos (Bella Vegas is another one in the same group) until this matter has been resolved.

 

[superargos]

I just recieved the following email from both Jupiter Club and Fortune Junction:

'Good News - A new check has been processed for the amount of
XXX to meet your cash-out request, and its on its way to you. This check
should reach you in the next 10-12 days and I will be calling to ensure that
you received it and cashed it in.

We sincerely apologize for the unfortunate delay. Our risk management team
carries out numerous procedures, some routine and some special investigations on
an ongoing basis and unfortunately this occasionally (as in your case) creates a slight
delay. However, it is important to note that these rigorous procedures are ultimately for
your (the player's) benefit.

Thank your for your patience and understanding in this matter.


Kind Regards,'

They have not compensated me for the fees I've incurred in connection with this but I fully expect that I will be. I've had to pay close to $100 in fees from my bank and I want that money back.

 

[jetset]

This whole incident does beg the question "Why don't they sort out their Security checks before sending out the cheques?"

 

[The Dude]

I just received this:

Dear Bryan,

Please be advised that our Support Team, in conjunction with our Risk Management Team, have completed their investigations into the incident raised by the player.

We are pleased to announce that any Danish players who were found to have complied with the terms and conditions on our website have had their checks reissued. As a prominent webmaster, you will no doubt be aware of difficulties experienced by online casinos with respect to historical bonus abuse by some Danish players. It is for this reason alone that any checks may have been stopped as a temporary measure. Thankfully our investigations have revealed no substantial abuse patterns and the affected players have been contacted and advised of the situation.

This information is supplied to you as an indication of our good intent and assurance that the stopping of checks was purely a precautionary measure, and that the players in question have been contacted.

This isolated incident is regretted and comments made on your forum have been noted in the hope that incidents of this nature will not happen again.

Kind regards,
JC Supervisor

 

[amandajm]

JC supervisors definition of bonus abuser please.

 

[jetset]

Hate to say it, but this sounds like BS to cover up a screw-up.

(a) Why didn't they do their security investigations BEFORE issuing checks instead of the dangerously bad practice of doing it when they were out there and

(b) If they are reading the message boards surely they are aware that the Danish accusations are very old BS?

Where's Jyde with his expert summary of the "case against the Danes"?

 

[amandajm]

Not sure how a screw up can cause this type of thing..This is intentional and judging by the casino's words up there Jet quite acceptable.

A screw up one can say hey we're sorry,our fault,won't happen again.They are putting it down to checking for bonus abuse though.

It can't be right and has been going on for too long now.

 

[valles]

The scumbags probably realized that stealing thousands of dollars from Danes wasn't the best idea, because it's obvious that this was their intention.

 

[jpm]

One thing I still don't understand is this business about the Danish players. Can someone explain this to me (assuming there is a reasonable explanation for it).

I know a couple of years ago there was supposedly alot of credit card fraud originating from Denmark or Danish banks and alot of casinos banned Danish players. But what is the rationale now for requiring them to wager up to 10 times more than players from other countries? Are they that much better gamblers than the rest of us??

 

[jetset]

Jyde did a significant amount of research on this myth that has been going the rounds in the internet gambling industry for years, and he prepared a very factual and objective report on the situation that was confirmed by several independents.

I'm sure he'll be along shortly to again put the record straight on this.

 

[jpm]

Thank jetset, I can't wait to see this one! I'm sure it'll tick off many of the less reputable casinos as well.

(Message edited by jpm on July 07, 2003)

 

[valles]

It's amazing that people believe those lies - you just have to hear them enough times.

TVS was the first group to use the credit card fraud excuse for not paying Danish players (they still owe me $180 ) The real excuse was and still is: bonus hunting...

 

[jyde]

Exactly Valles. How is it that higher wagerrequirement prevents creditcard fraud? The wagerrequirements have exploded ower the last couple of years. Is that because the industry is suffering from creditcard fraud? :yes:

Denmark never was shitlisted by any cc-processor for fraud. The casinos that claim otherwise are usually rogue. Dumbasses like RTG accused us of fraud - the smarter casinos made special terms with higher wagerrequirement for Danish players. But then again - the smarter casinos didn't steal any money from the Danish players.

Most RTG used Compecash for cc-transactions back when all the fraudbullshit started - so we must assume that Compecash was SUFFERING from stolen cc-deposits and chargebacks? Nope - Compecash is just a brand used by RTG casinos - Compecash is in reality Firepay/Surefire/Firecash - and Surefire never had problems with Danish players.

It was The Vegas Strip that started all this shit with creditcard fraud and Danish players - and it was a convenient excuse for nonpayment adopted by other rogues - like the Main Street Vegas Group (Twin Aces and sisters). Vegas Strip had their reasons. A former TVS employee recently told me a lot of interesting stuff. When they banned the Danes back in 2002 they lost 40% of their customers - but it saved them $430,000. Some of it must have been refunded as deposits - but still - they stole several 100K from us. My source also told me how much the owner made per month - and that he needed more money because he divorced to marry a prostitute :xxx Well - depending on the arrangement that marriage might have reduced his expences :wtf:

 

[jetset]

And the latest information to hand on TVS is that it has been taken over by.....Warren Cloud! Now, there's a name to conjure with and it will be fascinating to see how they honour their promise that all owed players with a legit claim will be paid:

Hi there Brian

We have just taken over 4 of the Vegas Strip Casinos and we will be making payments to all players with legitamate claims at the 4 casinos mentioned

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

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We will be issuing a press release to this effect in the mean time all players can direct there withdrawal claims to Oliver Curran his email address is oliver@crystalpalacecasino.com part of the settlement reached was all legitamate claims are paid in full.

The sites will all be relaunching within 10 days.

They will fall under the Crystal Palace Stable which now includes

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Should you have any queries or concerns please feel free to email me personally at admin@crystalpalacecasino.com

Regards

Donald Fortune

 

[thesmacker]

Oh great, Oliver Curran taking over the reigns...the guy whos responsible for more stolen money then the entire Gotti crime syndicate. Not to mention posting players names publically in forums after stealing there money. Nothing like hiring lowlife scumbag to clean up a problem and give your crappy ass scummy casinos an even worse name. The chances of anyone getting there money back is 0 as I'm sure old Oliver will make up excuses why each individual case is invalid and not worthy of a refund.

 

[jpm]

Does this mean I'll finally be able to get the $50 that americas-online has owed me for about 2 years now?? HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!

:rofl:

 

[pokeraddict]

I dont post much but read lots, was the original author of that email thinking that all ripped off players would suddenly gain comfort in knowing the head of the crystal palace scandal is suddenly in charge of thier future refund? I guess we all know what the best practice is, stick to a couple of places you trust and you wont get screwed. When i went on bonus hunting, playing in probably 20 casinos over a couple of months i ran into a $3000 bad check made good months later, a processor that took my money right out of my money market but never paid the casino(s), and a "Bonus hunter" label on a pathetic $200 withdrawal i finally got, since i have stuck to the same 2 companies I've played with forever.....no issues!

 

[glodge]

pokeraddict,

Some pretty sound advise.

 

[The Dude]

Well, back on topic. I'm going through my emails and here is Jupiter Casino's definition of bonus abuse:

For someone to be considered a Bonus Abuser ALL the following must exist:
*A player registering and making the ABSOLUTE minimum purchase required to qualify for a sign-up promotion
*Then clinically using any/every loophole in the playthrough rules to ensure they meet the minimum requirements on the playthrough rules and then cash-out their original purchase as well as part of the Bonus.
*Then never play at the Casino again, until another bonus is offered.
*They then tend to move on to the next Casino.
VERY VERY IMPORTANTLY, we then classify Bonus into two categories:

Acceptable
These are the Bonus abusers (as defined above) that we liken to people going to a Store only when there is a sale on - We offer these bonuses, they come into take it - admittedly we don't find this ideal, but it is totally legal and there is nothing wrong with it. These customers we treat as well as any V.I.P. at the casino.

Unacceptable
These are the bad guys and these are the players that are out to deliberatly hurt/steal/defraud the Casino. These players will:
*attempt multiple registrations at the Casino to try and "crook"/ "force a win - either by themselves or in a group.
*These are the players that we find it unacceptable to deal with and our policy is simple: We lock the players account, but ensure the player is no worse off having visited our casino - we immediatelyy refund the player his original purchase amount (provided that we can refund the client's credit card purchase, if we can't refund - we then go through various procedures to ensure that once paid out that money, the client then doesn't go on and charge-back anyway)(remember that we have already ascertained that these people are undesirable to deal with).

In general it all works well. However, from time to time, like most online casinos, we find it dificult to tell the difference between a acceptable abuser and an unacceptable one. In these instances, instead of incorrectly being "hard" on an acceptable bonus abuser or letting through an unacceptable bonus abuser - our fraud and risk management department perform extensive, labourious and time consuming investigations in trying to acsertain the right catergory - this sometime gets frustrating for a player - but is absolutely in the best interests of everyone - and FORUNTATELY - we almost without exception - GET IT RIGHT.

 

[bewitch]

Wow, it looks like I will be under the acceptable bonus abusers. HAHA.

When I started to play at online casino few months ago, I deposit, got the bonus and played (even win up to $2400 from $100 deposit) and plyed until nothing left.>,stupld gambling mind, I called<,

Then, I move on next stage after lose almost $2000 (get $1000 back from EH a slot "777" hit, lucky me...). I REFUSE bonus and just play. If I win, I withdraw and leave. If I lose more than50% of my original deposit , I leave, too. I can cash-in anytime because I didn't take bonus so I don't have to meet the wager requirement.

But Now I choose. Sometimes, I deposit, take bonus and meet the challenge if I THINK this casino is honest and payout is high. Sometime, I just deposit and play without bonus. At most time, I refuse the bonus if I am NEW to the casino or I am not sure about it, But I usually refuse the sign up bonus at new casino. Just play by my own rules. (Except Vegasheat. I took the sign up bonus. But I will be regular customer even without bonus.)

Does it make me a bonus hunter? It's really just like go gorcery shopping. I usually ONLY buy things on sale unless I need it. Sometimes, I even wait for things on sale. I have the same mind to casino, too. I think some casino might think I am a bonus hunter. I didn't get lable yet and hope won't be in the future.

Where do you draw the line?

(Message edited by bewitch on July 25, 2003)

(Message edited by bewitch on July 25, 2003)

 

[jetset]

Judging by this definition players simply need to deposit a little more than the ABSOLUTE minimum, wager a little more than required, and occasionally just pop in for an unbonused gamble!

 

[amandajm]

There is no such thing as bonus abuse while meeting the reqiurements and thats that.

Never will a casino be able to word anything with bonus abuse in the lines with the words just meeting the requirements in the same piece.

It is plain common sense and though i am not interested in judges or the courts very much i know i would win this arguement in a court of law.

 

[jinnia]

Amen to that amandajm !!

The casino's set those rules, and if someone meets the requirements of such, even with the minimal used, then that's that, no if's, and's or but's about it!!

They say people who gambles are taking a chance, well so do the casino's.

 

[jpm]

Bonus abuse would be accurate if you tried to get more than one signup bonus for instance, not by just accepting the bonuses offered and meeting the requirements.

But I'm glad to see that JC has some quantifiable requirements for labelling someone as a bonus abuser rather than by some arbitrary decision.

 

[ratman]

I went to the supermarket yesterday, loaded my trolley with items on sale, was served with a smile, then approached by the manager who told me my custom was no longer desired by the supermarket, as i was an "on-sale" abuser. Yeah right!!!!

Actually if this was an accurate analogy I would have had to show my passport, endured a price check on every item, then waited 2-3 weeks minimum for the items to be delivered, but I digress. (did i mention the cavity search )

I risk my money by wagering to the requirements stipulated by the casino. It staggers me that they then have the nerve to class me and others as bonus abusers and advantage players. I play by the rules as stated. If they're not happy with that, then changes the rules (preferably not post my deposit).