Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

Josyck

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Location
SPAIN
The problem is that Joyland Casino has changed my transaction history and he has deleted my withdrawal request of 4529 and substituted it for another of only 500 euros (my original deposit), this is the amount that I have received into my neteller account, only 500 of my 4529 withdrawal requested.

I have been talking with the casino's support but they have not tell me anything.

What do you recomend to do?.


Thanks,
Josyck
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
"What do you recomend to do?."

For one thing give us more details. Did you play with a bonus?
 

Josyck

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Location
SPAIN
I made a 500 deposit and I received a bonus of 808, then I played with that bonus much more than the wagering requirements and I made my withdrawal of about 2500. The following day I decided continue playing with the money and I reversed my 2500 withdrawal and I won more, I made a final withdrawal of 4500. Some days later they returned my deposit and my winnings disappeared in the cashier showing only a 500 withdrawal and not the 4500!!!. I have tried to contact them but they don't give any answer why my winnings disappear, that is why I ask here for help.

Thank you.
 

schankwart

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Location
Colony Gamma
Have these fellows ever sent a manager (representative) of their Casino over here?

Josyck's story so far sounds very ugly and an explanation of the Casino is more than neccessary. I would suggest you to wait for a couple days or so and then file a complaint with Playtech's dispute service, if nothing happens.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
I notice Bryan mentions at least one complaint from Joyland in his current newsletter: https://www.casinomeister.com/newsletters/ (you need to scroll down a bit)

On the face of it your case looks like simple theft, but there's not much we can say without knowing the full story and the casino's justification, if they have one. You could try "pitching a bitch" (if you haven't already), but Casinomeister's going on holiday so it'll take a while to get a response.

I've never seen this casino mentioned before & I don't think it's on any blacklists. Is it new and/or a member of a better known group of casinos?
 

The Gunslinger

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Mid-World
Joyland

Vesuvio said:
I've never seen this casino mentioned before & I don't think it's on any blacklists. Is it new and/or a member of a better known group of casinos?

Information about Joyland's affiliation can be found locally here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ing-imperial-e-club-and-crown-solutions.9061/

I've always assumed that Joyland was under the same ownership and/or managment as Carnival, New York etc. Although this is never specifically disclosed by the casinos, neither is the well documented ties between other members of the group (i.e. New York and Carnival.)

Joyland so far as I know is a brand new casino (although I could be wrong.)

If I understand the complaint correctly the management of Joyland casino modified the transactions records. Regardless if they claim the bonus as a contributing factor in the non-payment of the withdrawal (which may not be especially atypical for casinos) it still doesn't explain the modification of the transaction history.

However in this case it may be easy to prove that the history was modified (if they claim it was not) by the withdrawal receipts sent to the account holder via email. If they do not claim the transaction history was modified, that leaves them with the obvious first step of explaining why it was nessisary to do this, as I have never had this happen to me at a Playtech casino (nor any other casino for that matter, sans perhaps independent software/rouge casinos.) Refunding a deposit is one thing, restructuring someone transaction history to reflect differently than what actually happened is quite another.

Joyland obviously is among the affiliates listed at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
. If they are infact under the same management/ownership as Carnival, New York and the other mentioned casinos in the above link, it's curious why they would attempt such shady behavior as Carnival, New York etc. don't have a prevailing reputation for this type of behavior. I don't understand why they would allow their group's reputation to be damaged by what is obviously fradulent behavior on the part of one of their affiliated casinos.

The Gunslinger
 
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TeddyFSB

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 15, 2004
Location
Berkeley, CA
Reading this thread, I wanted to mention that I signed up at the casino last week. I lost my initial deposit and the bonus, and then deposited again. I played a bit with the new deposit, cashed out about the same amount and received the money today. So it seems that when you play without the bonus, they pay. Not that it makes their alleged behavior any less outrageous.
 

Aindreas_Daoc

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Location
USA
Vesuvio said:
I notice Bryan mentions at least one complaint from Joyland in his current newsletter: https://www.casinomeister.com/newsletters/ (you need to scroll down a bit)

On the face of it your case looks like simple theft, but there's not much we can say without knowing the full story and the casino's justification, if they have one. You could try "pitching a bitch" (if you haven't already), but Casinomeister's going on holiday so it'll take a while to get a response.

I've never seen this casino mentioned before & I don't think it's on any blacklists. Is it new and/or a member of a better known group of casinos?

I have a problem that is very similar to this one with them. I'm trying to work it out directly with them first before bothering Bryan, who is on vacation anyway. I'll post here if my communications with them reach an impasse.

Also, I followed that link to the newsletter, and there appears to be 3 PABs for Joyland already. Just an observation.

Finally, the Playtech "Player Inquiries" link (where we are supposed to contact Playtech about problems) is apparently down.
 

The Gunslinger

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Mid-World
Johnny Empire said:
I have had the same problem with Joyland with my initial deposit made on 8/4. They adjusted my withdraw request of about $1500 down to $500, my deposit amount.

Have you yet taken action?

Curiously, is your PAB one of the three listed in the newsletter?

Have they responded at all to attempts to contact them.

This kind of action is very disturbing :eek:

The Gunslinger
 

casinomike

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Location
TX
hello,
I am having similar problems with Joyland. I signed up to their casino on the 4th of August and deposited $500 and did receive an $808 signup bonus. I played some video poker (allowed by their terms) and had a very good run, then played blackjack (also allowed) and had some more very good luck. I made some cashouts that night just over ten thousand USD. I also played well over their required wagering for the bonus, and it was removed from my account on cashout.

much to my suprise they simply refunded my $500 deposit, and locked out my account. I have not been able to login to the casino since 8/5, and have received minimal support. Their email reply said I would be contacted as soon as possible (I have not yet been phoned). I have made attempts to call their support but could not reach anyone. Now I am reading about people having problems with this casino as well ? how should I proceed?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
These are the forum members who have PABd about Joyland:
sookie
Josyck
rufim901

The response time is very slow, and Playtech's "player inquiries" form is down, which really pisses me off. I've requested Playtech to get this back up as soon as possible.
 

sirius

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
Joyland was launched in early 2003. At the time it was independent (license Joyland Gaming Inc. but the license closed in March 2004) and you could choose to view it as either a Korean language or English site.

Crown Solutions Gaming Limited is the new casino license name for Club Dice from January last year.

The Club Dice group have had problems before. I remember one person claimed they stole thousands from his account but the casino claimed he played the money out. I also had a lot of problems with them.

Club Dice was the first Playtech Licensee. Although now called Crown Solutions Gaming, the company and license name used to be Celebrity Clubs GY Ltd / Club Dice Casino Ltd and the company address was from Nicosia, Cyprus (I've noticed a lot of casino companies from there and this includes the infamous CasinoBar).
 

sirius

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
I think you can assume Club Dice has strong ownership links to Playtech as it was their first licensee and Playtech was based in Nicosia, Cyprus too.
 

Josyck

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Location
SPAIN
Joyland called me yesterday. They told me that there was a software error that gave me more comp points than usual and therefore all my winnings were void and my deposit returned because I had played risk free. What?????.
This is not true. I did not play risk free! I played with my money and the bonus I received for signing-up. I am lucky and I win, then I cash my comps and I withdraw. The next day I reverse the withdrawal and I continue playing with that money and win more and withdraw again, and now they invent this story to not pay me my winnings.

This is absolutely incredible!
 

Johnny Empire

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Yorba Linda, Home of Nixon
The Gunslinger said:
Have you yet taken action?

Curiously, is your PAB one of the three listed in the newsletter?

Have they responded at all to attempts to contact them.

This kind of action is very disturbing :eek:

The Gunslinger

I haven't PAB yet because Bryan is on vacation. Playtech has been down.

I did contact the casino CS. They said there was a bug in their system, and so they were voiding all wins for that day. Deposits were being returned instead.

Somehow I don't think deposits were returned for people who busted out though.
 

hofdaddy

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Location
Cleveland
I am in the same boat as the rest of you. The first time I talked to CS they accused me of being dishonest. The whole system was like this for a week before they caught it. I ran up $6200 there and even ran up a $2000 session under their "new" rules and they still declined my withdrawls. I got my original deposit back of $500 but they are claiming that my winnings were all comp points which is entirely untrue.

I sent an email to the manager yesterday and was immediately called by a CSR. We talked for about 30 mins and I explained what was going on and she called me back about 10 mins ago. She said that it was "managements decision" to not give me the $2000 that I won under the "new" rules but also not give me anything but my deposit. So basically I played about 12 hours of BJ and JoB for nothing.
 

andrew26

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Location
Alabama
I am in the same boat. I won $356.75 playing by the rules the casino set up. I requested a withdrawal and even provided the documents they requested to validate the withdrawal.

When my withdrawal hit Neteller, it was $356.75 less than what they had confirmed earlier.

This, to me, is the worst kind of sleazy trick a casino can pull and makes me think twice about the whole concept.
 

schankwart

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Location
Colony Gamma
Josyck, this is one of the top three most disgusting excuses for non-payment that I have heard from any Online Casino EVER, and believe me, I have heard quite some. :p
Joyland seems to attempt a mass rip-off at the moment. I can not imagine what they are up to but this scam needs to be shut down immediately and all players paid.
Phew.
 

JohnGalt

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Location
iugljk
To shed some light on the situation, they did indeed have an obvious mistake in their comp point system, which apparently (according to hofdaddy) lasted for an entire week (I knew of the mistake but not the time period).

This mistake was, they were giving 4 comp points for every 1$ wagered, and they converted comp points to $ at the rate of 100 comp points for every $1. Obviously this is a 4% rebate, which is obviously a mistake, and it must have been especially obvious to the people complaining here.

Also, this happened during a transition in their comp points system. Before the mistake it was 4 points/$1 wagered, 4000 points to $1 cash, afterwards it was 1 point/$10 wagered, 100 points to convert to $1 cash. So you can see, they made a mistake (a really, really stupid mistake) in the transition.

This is open to debate, but in my mind they are within their rights to retroactively change the comp points to what they should have been, since this was an obvious error people were taking advantage of. However, voiding actual winnings and altering transaction histories is 100% unacceptable.

I think everyone here should put out in the open how much of their winnings was from gambling and how much was from comp points. I mean I understand there's another factor here of people getting lots of comp points and then using them to run up a huge balance where otherwise maybe they would have busted, so I guess any winnings generated purely with converted comp points could be taken back as well.

But when it's part converted comps and part their cash, I'd say the winnings have to be honored, and if someone just deposited, got the bonus, won money, converted their comps, then cashed out (which I feel is the majority situation here) then the winnings should be honored, minus the extra comps.
 

schankwart

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Location
Colony Gamma
Interesting insight, John. Lets hear the winners side of view.

Definetely though the Casino needs to correct its behavior. There is NO doubt.
 

TrixSlice

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Location
CA
I too played this deal, I made about over 1,000 in comps, but I didn't make thousands like the OP has. I made around 100 at this casino. They paid me back my deposit and will pay my winnings as soon as I send my driver's license. However, after checking, my account is still open and they did not change my transaction history. I find it disturbing that actual transaction history was changed as the original poster implied. If that's true, then any PlayTech casino can change the winnings of a big winner and the public would scream 'liar' when the winner cried. If we can get some kind of proof that actual transactions have been changed (since this might very well be a lie), maybe someone can contact PlayTech and let them know that Crown Solutions and Management are athorizing the changes of actual transaction logs! Highly undignified. Has any of Crown Solutions other casinos done something of this sort in the past? What other casinos does Crown Solutions own/operate?
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
Altering transaction logs is pretty stunning, even for a Playtech casino. They must have realised they'd made a huge mistake and then desperately tried to sweep it under the carpet - somehow I think they might fail :rolleyes:

As for the comp points - it's an interesting issue. They can't claim software error as all that's happened is a member of their staff put in the wrong conversion rate. You can't retroactively decide to pay out the "correct" number of comp points as that'd be like letting someone play BJ all evening with it paying out at 3:2 for a BJ. They finish off in profit and then you tell them actually you meant to pay out 6:5, so it turns out you owe us money instead.

I think a reputable on-line casino would just have to accept that they'd made a stupid error and take the losses, but it's going to be one hell of a fight to persuade an outfit like this of that. I suppose it depends whether they value their reputation or not.

Comp points can be debated but two certainties are: 1) altering transaction logs is unacceptable and has to be put right & 2) anyone who won without taking comp points into account must be paid those winnings.
 

JohnGalt

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Location
iugljk
So just out of curiosity Vesuvio, if after I realized the casino's mistake I had started playing there non-stop for the entire week that this lasted and made almost $1 Million (which I easily could have done) would you feel they should pay me those winnings (converted comp points, that is)?
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
JohnGalt said:
So just out of curiosity Vesuvio, if after I realized the casino's mistake I had started playing there non-stop for the entire week that this lasted and made almost $1 Million (which I easily could have done) would you feel they should pay me those winnings (converted comp points, that is)?
Yes, just as a casino which offered the "wrong" odds on one of its games would also have to pay out. I don't see why the level of their incompetence or the amount of their losses makes any difference, unless they're poorly enough funded not to be able to pay (I doubt you'll find anyone's taken them for anything like $1 million).
 
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