Jinglheimer VS Jackpot Capital

Jinglheimer

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Having won the bonus 50 max cashout of 250.00 i was only playing on the 4000.00 (many times) for 125.00 a spin when suddenly the balance is dropped from when I pushed the button to spin from 2100.00 to 125.00. i contacted them immediately and was told stupid things like "I bet it" KNOWING THERE'S NO CHANCE TO WIN? i asked. no respnse.. I had to hang up the phone and the chat session and resort to writing an email. It won't end here I hope. If the owner of this page would be so kind as to contact Barbados for me and apprise the person or persons in charge of this outrage, I'd appreciate it. As for me I'm committing myself to one blog per day until I get satisfaction. If I don't it will be a cold day in hell before the Jackpot casino sees anymore deposits like the 2 I made there last week from me. I even tried to make a third but the bank has a limit.:eek:
 

Cleveland

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:eek2:

Come again?
 

chayton

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The OP had a $50 bonus with a max cashout of $250 - they were betting high to make the playthrough - they were way up when they reached the playthrough and the 'excess winnings' were removed, but the OP hit one extra time so the balance instead of dropping to $250 dropped to $125. I think that's what they're saying - the only thing I'm getting is which casino this was - obviously an RTG - probably Jackpot Capital....?
 

chuchu59

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While the OP is unclear about the issue aqs well as the casino I think he/she has made a valid point. In fact, I encountered the same issue at Grande Vegas. I was betting $100 per hand at paigow poker to meet wrs after hitting a 3k rj. Suddenly my balance was reduced and I could not respond in time and still pressed the deal button. IMO the casino is being a cheapskate as the only reason for reducing the balance in the midst of play would be to prevent the player from accring comps which have a low conversion rate anyway. If they want to do this they should imitate Rival and ask rtg to ensure in its software that comps are not gained thru play witha free chip.
 

Nifty29

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Turn right, then right. then right again
Having won the bonus 50 max cashout of 250.00 i was only playing on the 4000.00 (many times) for 125.00 a spin when suddenly the balance is dropped from when I pushed the button to spin from 2100.00 to 125.00. i contacted them immediately and was told stupid things like "I bet it" KNOWING THERE'S NO CHANCE TO WIN? i asked. no respnse.. I had to hang up the phone and the chat session and resort to writing an email. It won't end here I hope. If the owner of this page would be so kind as to contact Barbados for me and apprise the person or persons in charge of this outrage, I'd appreciate it. As for me I'm committing myself to one blog per day until I get satisfaction. If I don't it will be a cold day in hell before the Jackpot casino sees anymore deposits like the 2 I made there last week from me. I even tried to make a third but the bank has a limit.:eek:

Threatening to rubbish them every day all over the net won't help. In fact, you're less likely to be accommodated.

Did you keep check on your wagering as you went? The cashier provides a running wagering counter, as I'm sure you know. Anyone who doesn't pay attention to their own wagering status is bound to run into problems.

I doubt you have any chance of getting your money back, especially given it was a freebie. Take it as a learning experience and be content with at least winning something.

The software should have a popup message when the current bet is going to initiate removal of extra funds. Or, as others suggest, do away with the system and just award no comps on freebies whatsoever.
 

chayton

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I've never had that happen to me, although I usually keep a pretty close eye on where I am in wagering. Actually though, that's a good idea to have a popup trigger whenever you reach wagering that stops you from spinning again - just something that says 'You've reached WR, any excess funds have been removed. Might as well cash out now." ;)
 

chuchu59

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Threatening to rubbish them every day all over the net won't help. In fact, you're less likely to be accommodated.

Did you keep check on your wagering as you went? The cashier provides a running wagering counter, as I'm sure you know. Anyone who doesn't pay attention to their own wagering status is bound to run into problems.

I doubt you have any chance of getting your money back, especially given it was a freebie. Take it as a learning experience and be content with at least winning something.

The software should have a popup message when the current bet is going to initiate removal of extra funds. Or, as others suggest, do away with the system and just award no comps on freebies whatsoever.

Good suggestion though as usual rtg is slow or unwilling to implement them. Its funny they are able to devise ways to legitimately rob players like awarding of max payout thru 50k max line wins and allowing play on certain restricted games without blocking them though obviously they have the ability to do so. It isnt practicable to go to the counter to check after spin on the playthrough.
 

vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
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While the OP is unclear about the issue aqs well as the casino I think he/she has made a valid point. In fact, I encountered the same issue at Grande Vegas. I was betting $100 per hand at paigow poker to meet wrs after hitting a 3k rj. Suddenly my balance was reduced and I could not respond in time and still pressed the deal button. IMO the casino is being a cheapskate as the only reason for reducing the balance in the midst of play would be to prevent the player from accring comps which have a low conversion rate anyway. If they want to do this they should imitate Rival and ask rtg to ensure in its software that comps are not gained thru play witha free chip.

This is the BIG problem with the system. It ends the contract by removing the excess, but gives absolutely NO warning to the player, who is happily clicking away in the middle of a session. This means that nearly always one additional bet will be made that takes the balance below the max cashout before the player sees what has happened. The system should also freeze play at the time the excess balance is removed, and eject the player from the game and back to the lobby. This will give them time to react BEFORE they make unwinnable bets following the completion of WR and attaining the max cashout.

Now, the REALLY odd thing is that for YEARS operators have moaned about "bonus abusers" who make WR to the cent, and cash out, rather than play a little over the WR to show that they are playing for "entertainment" rather than precice extraction of the bonus. Then, RTG introduces a system that REQUIRES bonuses to be played in this very clinical and "abusive" manner, and WR made exactly to the cent followed by immediate cashout.

Now NO RTG has any moral grounds for saying that cashing out exactly on WR is in any way "abusive", as they have set up the back end to REQUIRE players to treat bonuses with such clinical precision.

There may be an ulterior motive, and that is that having made an extra bet, players will make another just to get back to the max cashout amount. Some will make it, but many will end up playing the lot back, unable to get the win needed.

I believe RTG casinos using this optional setting should not be allowed accredited status because it is not programmed in a way that ensures players are able to notice in time that the contract has ended, and that the balance must be cashed out right away.
 

Nifty29

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Good suggestion though as usual rtg is slow or unwilling to implement them. Its funny they are able to devise ways to legitimately rob players like awarding of max payout thru 50k max line wins and allowing play on certain restricted games without blocking them though obviously they have the ability to do so. It isnt practicable to go to the counter to check after spin on the playthrough.

Well I don't check the playthrough counter after every spin...that's just silly and not required anyway.

Just keeping a mental note of how many spins etc are required, or a written tally, and checking every xx spins and more frequently as you get closer. So simple, and would have saved this guy half his money.

I also believe the minimum wagering "bonus abuse" thing is more about deposit bonuses rather than freebies, as they generally don't have max cashouts and further wagering is an option for the player and increases the house's chances.
 

vinylweatherman

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Well I don't check the playthrough counter after every spin...that's just silly and not required anyway.

Just keeping a mental note of how many spins etc are required, or a written tally, and checking every xx spins and more frequently as you get closer. So simple, and would have saved this guy half his money.

I also believe the minimum wagering "bonus abuse" thing is more about deposit bonuses rather than freebies, as they generally don't have max cashouts and further wagering is an option for the player and increases the house's chances.


Nevertheless, it still requires a more clinical approach to play than mere "entertainment".

True, the OP could have frequently checked the meter and worked out which spin would be the one that exactly completed WR, however this is a clinical approach to meeting WR, and NOT "playing for entertainment".

It is bullshit to suggest that casinos can have different views of what constitues "recreational play" based purely on whether the definition of "recreational" favours the casino or the player in an individual instance.

Players usually find out about this back end setting the first time it hits them, as nothing in the terms goes into this level of detail as to how it works, rather it just says "max cashout is ??xbonus", and players expect this to be enforced upon their withdrawal, not at some arbitrary moment during play.

This whole thing is steering players into taking a more clinical approach to bonus play, rather than what casinos want, play for entertainment. If they are steered into "meter watching" for free chips, they will carry this habit to ALL types of bonus play, and it won't just be "advantage players" that cash out as soon as WR is completed, it will be MANY players doing it as they have had a bad experience after NOT doing it.

Don't forget, some RTG casinos have max cashouts on deposit bonuses, so one cannot generalise by saying this "meter watching" only needs to be done on free chips.

I play Microgaming almost exclusively, so I just don't experience having to watch the meter, or worry about max cashouts in the first place, let alone excess winnings disappearing during play. I often play beyond WR because I only check the bonus balance when moving from one game to another, and if I fancy trying another game, I will do so even if I find I have completed WR and have a zero bonus balance. I cash out when I feel luck has deserted me, or my mouse hand is getting stiff through clicking.

The only thing I have to worry about is the max bet restriction on a bonus.
 

zap987

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What should happen is there should be a popup when you complete WR and balance is reduced and after that the money should be treated as your money, max cashout should no longer apply. Sure, someone is gonna cash out thousands of dollars off a free chip every now and then but in the long run it's better for the casino as people will continue playing a game with a house edge. Overall casinos need to realise that money in the account is the players money when all conditions are met, not the casinos money.
 

Nifty29

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Nevertheless, it still requires a more clinical approach to play than mere "entertainment".

True, the OP could have frequently checked the meter and worked out which spin would be the one that exactly completed WR, however this is a clinical approach to meeting WR, and NOT "playing for entertainment".

It is bullshit to suggest that casinos can have different views of what constitues "recreational play" based purely on whether the definition of "recreational" favours the casino or the player in an individual instance.

Players usually find out about this back end setting the first time it hits them, as nothing in the terms goes into this level of detail as to how it works, rather it just says "max cashout is ??xbonus", and players expect this to be enforced upon their withdrawal, not at some arbitrary moment during play.

This whole thing is steering players into taking a more clinical approach to bonus play, rather than what casinos want, play for entertainment. If they are steered into "meter watching" for free chips, they will carry this habit to ALL types of bonus play, and it won't just be "advantage players" that cash out as soon as WR is completed, it will be MANY players doing it as they have had a bad experience after NOT doing it.

Don't forget, some RTG casinos have max cashouts on deposit bonuses, so one cannot generalise by saying this "meter watching" only needs to be done on free chips.

I play Microgaming almost exclusively, so I just don't experience having to watch the meter, or worry about max cashouts in the first place, let alone excess winnings disappearing during play. I often play beyond WR because I only check the bonus balance when moving from one game to another, and if I fancy trying another game, I will do so even if I find I have completed WR and have a zero bonus balance. I cash out when I feel luck has deserted me, or my mouse hand is getting stiff through clicking.

The only thing I have to worry about is the max bet restriction on a bonus.

AFAIK the max cashout with deposit bonuses is not enforced via this system. i.e. the bonus and excess is removed during the cashout process.

I'm not saying the system is a good one, but it's there for the moment and if the OP had been watching his playthrough more closely he might be $125 better off. In fact, it is badly designed as it doesn't provide any warning. Still, the casino cannot be expected to give it back.

The money should be considered as "real" money once the excess and bonus are removed. However, most casinos do not see it that way. Again, it's poor form, but players have the choice to play or not play according to whether individual operators have this rule and enforce it. Most players don't withdraw and then re-deposit the whole amount to keep playing the next day, so it is really the casino that is the loser. Another example of short-sighted policies from operators who can't see the wood from the trees.
 

vinylweatherman

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AFAIK the max cashout with deposit bonuses is not enforced via this system. i.e. the bonus and excess is removed during the cashout process.

I'm not saying the system is a good one, but it's there for the moment and if the OP had been watching his playthrough more closely he might be $125 better off. In fact, it is badly designed as it doesn't provide any warning. Still, the casino cannot be expected to give it back.

The money should be considered as "real" money once the excess and bonus are removed. However, most casinos do not see it that way. Again, it's poor form, but players have the choice to play or not play according to whether individual operators have this rule and enforce it. Most players don't withdraw and then re-deposit the whole amount to keep playing the next day, so it is really the casino that is the loser. Another example of short-sighted policies from operators who can't see the wood from the trees.

Even sillier. Not only a badly designed system, but an inconsistent one.

Not all RTG casinos use it, which is even worse for players who think they "know the software" through experience.

I "know" MGS quite well, and although there have been a few significant changes, they are pretty consistent across all MGS casinos, with little if any "nasty surprises" in store.

RTG didn't always have this system either. Before, all such caps were dealt with after a withdrawal request, no matter whether it was a deposit bonus or free chip. I doubt there is ONE player who suggested that remiving the excess without warning during play, yet letting players play on, was a better system than dealing with everything at cashout.

Worse still, BECAUSE excess winnings have been removed already, players have mistakenly believed that the contract had ended there and then, and they COULD play on rather than have to withdraw. This has lead to players having excess winnings removed TWICE, once during play, and again where they have played on and again brought their balance above the max cashout.

Since these settings are optional, casinos don't HAVE to use them, they CHOOSE to, therefore the choice to use such a badly designed system should impact on their eligibilty for accreditation. It would help players no end if they could assume that accredited RTG casinos do NOT use this system, so can avoid getting caught out simply by choosing an RTG from the accredited list, rather than clinically counting every spin because the casino MIGHT be using this system.
 

KasinoKing

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Having won the bonus 50 max cashout of 250.00 i was only playing on the 4000.00 (many times) for 125.00 a spin when suddenly the balance is dropped from when I pushed the button to spin from 2100.00 to 125.00. i contacted them immediately and was told stupid things like "I bet it" KNOWING THERE'S NO CHANCE TO WIN? i asked. no response.. I had to hang up the phone and the chat session and resort to writing an email. It won't end here I hope. If the owner of this page would be so kind as to contact Barbados for me and apprise the person or persons in charge of this outrage, I'd appreciate it. As for me I'm committing myself to one blog per day until I get satisfaction. If I don't it will be a cold day in hell before the Jackpot casino sees anymore deposits like the 2 I made there last week from me. I even tried to make a third but the bank has a limit.:eek:
Jackpot Capital are Accredited here - so if it were me, I would Pitch-A-Bitch.

I know some here would argue that it is your fault that you hit "Spin" after your balance got reduced, but I think that is a totally unreasonable argument - we all know what it's like when you're playing slots hitting spin, spin, spin! :rolleyes:
I think the casino's actions are unfair & unreasonable and so I hope they wont "hide" behind their rules.
I also hope Max agrees with me!

First please send the casino representative a Private Message about your problem.
Reps are listed here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/?key=staff_members

After giving them a reasonable amount of time, if they do not put things right to your satisfaction, you can Pitch-A-Bitch.
This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.

To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs


Threatening to rubbish them every day all over the net won't help. In fact, you're less likely to be accommodated.

Did you keep check on your wagering as you went? The cashier provides a running wagering counter, as I'm sure you know. Anyone who doesn't pay attention to their own wagering status is bound to run into problems.

I doubt you have any chance of getting your money back, especially given it was a freebie. Take it as a learning experience and be content with at least winning something.

The software should have a popup message when the current bet is going to initiate removal of extra funds. Or, as others suggest, do away with the system and just award no comps on freebies whatsoever.
I totally agree with your 1st & 4th sentences, but not so much with 2 & 3 for the reasons in my reply to the OP above.

What should happen is there should be a popup when you complete WR and balance is reduced and after that the money should be treated as your money, max cashout should no longer apply. Sure, someone is gonna cash out thousands of dollars off a free chip every now and then but in the long run it's better for the casino as people will continue playing a game with a house edge. Overall casinos need to realise that money in the account is the players money when all conditions are met, not the casinos money.
Totally agree with this! :thumbsup:
I have yet to see any valid argument why this is in any a way fair system.
It's just crazy.

KK
 

Diane

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Well I don't check the playthrough counter after every spin...that's just silly and not required anyway.

Just keeping a mental note of how many spins etc are required, or a written tally, and checking every xx spins and more frequently as you get closer. So simple, and would have saved this guy half his money.

I also believe the minimum wagering "bonus abuse" thing is more about deposit bonuses rather than freebies, as they generally don't have max cashouts and further wagering is an option for the player and increases the house's chances.

I agree and truly believe that the player has to have some responsibility.

Know the rules, including if there a limits on bet size and/or games you are allowed to play
Know the wagering requirements
Know when to stop to maximize your personal return
Factor in that most casinos will remove the bonus amount - so if your Free $50 has a max cash out of $250, stop when you hit $300 and request the cash out to get maximum for YOU.

Diane
 

chayton

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Well it's possible that the OP has a case here, there have been some lags with several of the RTG casinos lately and balance updating is one of them. I was playing a few days ago and had a balance of $15 and change (yay me :rolleyes:) and went to another game and won a little, when I came back to the lobby my balance still showed as $15 - another time I was playing a game and won a bit and my balance didn't update until after the next spin.

So just keeping an eye on your balance may not be enough, but there's still the 'withdrawable balance' in the cashier that the OP should have checked. It might be worth talking to Yas about it anyhow.

It would be cool if they could set it up so the playthrough was actually showing while you're playing, instead of having to open the cashier all the time. You can't leave the cashier open while you're playing, so if you're getting close to WR you have to interrupt your play to keep checking. Or lower your bet enough that it won't make a difference.
 

Diane

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<snip>

It would be cool if they could set it up so the playthrough was actually showing while you're playing, instead of having to open the cashier all the time. You can't leave the cashier open while you're playing, so if you're getting close to WR you have to interrupt your play to keep checking. Or lower your bet enough that it won't make a difference.

If you know though, that you are settling into your preferred game to work on the wagering, you could set the Auto play to the # of games you know are needed x your bet as another tool to help manage the WR process.

I haven't experienced the "lag" in balance -- but then I always just go to the cashier page to check on wagering and use the autoplay feature to ensure I dont' bet beyond what is required to satisfy the WR.

FWIW,
Diane
 

Tirilej

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The sad thing in this is that the ones who are losing a part of their money, is not us who knows already that when the wagering is done the sum sets down to what you can cash out,
it's those who don't know that it will happen that lose.
I havn't seen it written either, but I havn't searched. Does anyone know?
 

chayton

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The sad thing in this is that the ones who are losing a part of their money, is not us who knows already that when the wagering is done the sum sets down to what you can cash out,
it's those who don't know that it will happen that lose.
I havn't seen it written either, but I havn't searched. Does anyone know?

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean? The term about excess money being removed when WR is met is in the cashier after claiming a bonus with max cashout if that's what you mean...? If that's not what you meant, then nevermind. :p

@Diane, you know I never use autoplay when playing RTG, I always forget it's there! Isn't that silly....
 

Tirilej

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Sorry I'm not sure what you mean? The term about excess money being removed when WR is met is in the cashier after claiming a bonus with max cashout if that's what you mean...? If that's not what you meant, then nevermind. :p

@Diane, you know I never use autoplay when playing RTG, I always forget it's there! Isn't that silly....

That's what I ment so stupid question asked again:)
 

chayton

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That's what I ment so stupid question asked again:)

ok in the casino cashier is where you see the term - AFTER you've claimed a chip with max cashout. I think that's the only place, I looked at iNetBet and JC terms page and it's not in there anywhere, but it might be in the mailer with the free chip code too. I didn't bother looking at CWC because they don't do it I don't think.
 

Tirilej

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ok in the casino cashier is where you see the term - AFTER you've claimed a chip with max cashout. I think that's the only place, I looked at iNetBet and JC terms page and it's not in there anywhere, but it might be in the mailer with the free chip code too. I didn't bother looking at CWC because they don't do it I don't think.

Sorry again! I just ment I had asked another stupid question. I was not asking again:D
I need to learn to write so people can understand me I think. I'm getting there;)
 

chayton

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Actually it's not you, I was working on some code so my brain isn't comprehending anything anymore...time to go to bed, methinks.
 
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