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Jackpot Factory/Affiliates and Players

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Pinababy69, Jun 4, 2006.

    Jun 4, 2006
  1. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Firstly, I apologize for starting this thread in this particular forum. Simmo or Bryan, please move it to the appropriate forum if this is totally inappropriate. I probably would have put it in the Webmaster's section, but don't have access to post there. Seeing as it is a question directly related to the ongoing JF mess, I put it here so that the threads would be "together".

    In doing a quick surf of various gambling portals and forums this morning, it simply astounds me how many webmasters and forum owners are still actively promoting, in some cases, downright pushing, Jackpot Factory.

    It occurs to me that all the ECogra rulings and roguings in the world can't really hit Jackpot Factory where it hurts, and that is in the pocketbook. As long as affiliates continue to promote them and send them new players, I'm sure the powers that be at JF are laughing at all of us.

    10 or 20 or even 100 individual casino players closing their accounts just doesn't make an impact. What does make an impact is a high profile webmaster who sends alot of new players their way refusing to promote them any longer, and thus cutting off their supply.

    I visited the CAP (Casino Affiliate Programs) forum last night, still not even a mention of this posted there. Not one word. And this is the largest collection of high profile affiliates on the Web. I find it almost impossible to believe that they are not aware of this.

    On the bright side, I have seen some positives. Webzcas, I visited your site, and while I still see JF banners, I see you have them redirecting to Roxy Palace. Thumbs up for doing the right thing. Simmo's site has the JF casinos still on his list, however he has them all crossed out, and big red letters informing everyone that they have been rogued at CM for unethical marketing practices. I like that idea. My friend Krypto who posted here the other day runs an EZBoard gambling forum, but what I consider to be one of the few good ones. Upon learning of this, she immediately erased every trace of them from her site, and closed all current promos she had running with them.

    On the negative side, a high profile site such as WinnerOnline, still has their 400% promos plastered all over the main page. And even worse, everytime I go there, I get an exit popup which directs me to All Jackpots when I leave. They do however at least have a thread dedicated to this subject in their forum. GrandMaster, I have to ask you a question. Given your feelings on this whole matter, and from your posts, it appears they are as strong as mine, how do you feel about being a part of a site that still pushes this group? I totally understand you have zero control over what gets promoted, just asking for a personal opinion. If it were up to you, would you pull their advertising? I may just write to Jeff myself and ask him for a comment from the horse's mouth.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand that these are purely business decisions being made here, and in some cases there is alot of possible revenue on the line. I guess what I'm trying to get at, is, where do you draw the line? I know you can't fight greed, it's one of the seven deadly sins, and sadly human nature. But at what point does money override all other moral and ethical considerations?

    I didn't start this thread to start a new round of bashing. I'm truly interested in hearing any feedback from anyone regarding their views on this. Preferably constructive, if that's possible.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Jun 4, 2006
  3. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Removing the banners is going to take time, if they are not served by a script or database which is the case with my sites.

    However I have as you have seen for yourself changed the redirect for All Slots to Roxy. I need to do the same for WildJack Poker Room - The other JF site I promote.

    Webmasters I have spoken to are well aware of this and there is a thread discussing this issue here:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    That said, Lloyd who is the Affiliate Manager for Brightshare is one of the most approachable and professional managers in the industry. Blame cannot be laid at his door IMO for this mess. I also feel this is why many webmasters have been quite quiet so far.

    Personally what I would like to see happen is this:

    1) JackPot Factory remove all remaining offending content.
    2) Publically apologise and make a sizable donation to GamCare or similar charity.
    3) eCOGRA to suspend JF's seals for 6 months.

    If the first two measures are taken, I would be quite happy to promote their properties again. The third measure, will determine whether I personally continue to support eCOGRA and ensure my visitors to my sites are made aware of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2006
    2 people like this.
  4. Jun 4, 2006
  5. Renegade

    Renegade Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Store Clerk
    Location:
    USA
    I am personally against any type of marketing that targets the weak and preys on them.
    I want to make money, but I WILL NOT promote any one that has unethical marketing and business practices.
    I don't care how much money is involved.
    I have always tried to list only Online Casinos and Poker Rooms that do not have a bad rep.
    I try my best to look out for the players.

    I agree that we need to get the word out on JF, but we also have to take into account that no matter what is written about them, good or bad, they will benefit from having their name on our websites as far as the search engines goes.
    If we can come up with something we can all place the same thing on our sites.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 4, 2006
  7. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    I agree Webzcas, and I sincerely hope that Jackpot Factory doesn't even THINK about trying to use him as a scapegoat in this. I wouldn't put it past them though, they've already shown the depths they'll sink to.

    Thanks for the link to CAP, I'm on my way to read now. My apologies if I simply overlooked/missed it previously.
     
  8. Jun 4, 2006
  9. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Thanks Renegade, I guess that's what I'm looking for...is to find out how many, if any, are willing to take a stand on this, and make a concerted effort to make sure that players are informed. There IS power in numbers, and if everyone (in a perfect world), or at least some, could get on the same page, I really think it could make a difference. Even if it's a small one.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 4, 2006
  11. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    The really sad thing about this whole situation is that there was no need for them to resort to these underhand marketing activities. All Slots and their sister sites have built up a very good reputation over time by treating their players very well. The imbecile that approved and co-ordinated this marketing campaign has undone all their hard work.
     
  12. Jun 4, 2006
  13. Renegade

    Renegade Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Store Clerk
    Location:
    USA
    One of the main problems that I see, is that alot of webmasters are only concerned with affiliate checks, and don't care about what a casino does, as long as the money keeps coming in.
    We all talk about and would love to have a true Gaming Commission that would handle these things for the BETTERMENT OF THE GAMBLING INDUSTRY.
    One of the ways to try and get webmasters on the same page would be to try a Webmaster's seal of approval...A webmaster's commission maybe??? Something along those lines where like-minded webmasters could ban together to MAKE THE BIG DIFFERENCE.
    IF someone could come up with this...I'm all for it.
    Thank you Pinababy69, for your efforts, morals, and strong will in this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jun 4, 2006
  15. Renegade

    Renegade Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Store Clerk
    Location:
    USA
    Webzcas


    From what I gathered on the other post is that they have been doing this marketing since 2005...The links were hidden within the pages, but then somehow the links got seen.
    They may have been, and may still be, a great casino as far as the players are concerned, but now one has to take into account, did they get that way with ONLY great CS???? Or did they get that way from BOTH CS AND the hidden links????
     
  16. Jun 4, 2006
  17. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  18. Jun 4, 2006
  19. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    I absolutely agree on that Webzcas. Besides 32Red, these were the only casinos that I played at anymore at all. I hadn't played there in a while, but it's safe to say I won't be anymore, ever!!

    And you are more forgiving than I am, because I would never promote this group again. But that is totally your prerogative, and I respect that. As I mentioned previously, I'm intelligent enough to realize that this is how some of you make your living, and sometimes you have to make what are purely business decisions, no different than large corporations.

    I've read the thread on CAP, and while I was happy to see a few of your senior members immediately say they would yank/blacklist them, I was also disturbed to see some replies of "as long as they play their players and affiliates, I don't understand the problem". If someone doesn't get it, no amount of explanation in the world is going to change their mind. Again, thanks for the link. :)
     
  20. Jun 4, 2006
  21. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Renegade, thanks!! This has become very personal for me, and when I sink my teeth into something, I'm tenacious if nothing else. That and a buck will get me a cup of coffee. But at least when I go to sleep, I can know that I tried. You can't control what other people do, but you always have full control over yourself and your own actions. I try to live by that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jun 4, 2006
  23. mucullus

    mucullus Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany
    No offense, but do you think Gambling Federation complies with your principles (you seem to promote your own GFED white label casino in your sig. and profile)?
    Think of the malicious altering of the hosts file or refusing a player to pay because he signed up at more than one GFED casino (which then was not disallowed)...
     
  24. Jun 4, 2006
  25. Renegade

    Renegade Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Store Clerk
    Location:
    USA
    Yes I do promote my own g-fed casino.
    I can say that no player (knock on wood) who has downloaded and played my casino has ever had a problem.
    Gambling Federation is my parent company, I have been with them for a long time.
    The trouble you speak of I have not known about.
    If a player was not paid, I am sorry about this. I do not have control over that.
    I am not a G-Fed employee, nor CEO. I just have my own casino with them.
    I can assure you that that problem did not occur from my casino. If it had, I would have known about it. And hopefully corrected it.

    I personally place my name and my email on my casino site with pride.
    I try my best to list only casinos and poker rooms and affiliate programs that pay their players and do not have a bad rep.

    I am sorry that you feel G-Fed is a bad company.

    Please also note, I did not join CM to promote my casino....I joined CM so I could learn more of the Gambling Industry from those who have been doing it for a long time.
    And as far as I can tell, Byran has not Rogued or Blacklisted G-Fed.
    If I'm wrong, please provide me with the links.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2006
  26. Jun 4, 2006
  27. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    Pina, FWIW, a few months ago Party bought out Empire, and notified the affiliates they wouldn't be honoring Empire's revenue-share agreements.

    The affiliates at CAP were up in arms about it, and swore up and down they'd stop promoting Party.

    But when you visited their sites - they didn't stop. They didn't take any action at all. Talk is cheap, but action = $$$.

    I don't know how profitable JF is for its affiliates, but I wouldn't expect *most* affiliates to take any action over this, if they're making money from them.
     
  28. Jun 4, 2006
  29. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Sadly Linus, for once you and I agree on something. It's too bad, because as long as people continue to promote them, I really don't think they will ever learn. And if they WOULD take a hard stance with just one of these casinos, I think it might make others sit up and take notice. Too bad it's not a perfect world, and we have to deal in realities.
     
  30. Jun 4, 2006
  31. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    There is a core of affiliates who work together and take appropriate action at times like these. Webzcas and I were working a strategy on JF as soon as we saw the issue arise. Same with Dominique when the 888 saga sprang up.

    GPWA and CAP act as good meeting places, but I think the number of affiliates who use those forums are probably a mere drop in the ocean and there are a lot of affiliates who are simply in it for the money. That's the way things are these days, in any line of business unfortunately.

    My preferred stance in situations in these is rarely to remove outright but instead to provide the "whole picture" and let people judge for themselves. You may also have noticed my pro-eCOGRA text has been surreptitiously removed pending their response ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jun 4, 2006
  33. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Simmo, I absolutely love the way you've set up your site. And the fact that you leave them there, but put the red text in informing people of the status. I think that speaks louder than just removing them entirely. :thumbsup:

    And I am thankful that there are affiliates like you and Webzcas and Spear and Bryan and some others here who do have some ethics and morals, it gives me some hope for this industry yet. Thanks.

    Ooops, sorry Renegade, not to overlook your offers of help as well. :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 4, 2006
  35. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    And it's way more fun :D

    Seriously though, if you think about it logically, why would any affiliate want to send a player to a casino where there are serious issues that means there is a chance they won't be happy? Everyone loses that way. Plus I'm not a gerat fan of the "rogue" term personally when the casino is otherwise an operation who treats the playyers pretty well. My opinion of what makes a "rogue" is obviously going to be different to other people, so it makes sense just to state the facts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2006
  36. Jun 4, 2006
  37. Renegade

    Renegade Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Store Clerk
    Location:
    USA
    Thank you Pinababy69.
    I was hoping my above post about G-Fed didn't sour anyone towards me. LOL

    On another note, and trying not to get off track...I need to ask something..
    I just got off MSN Messenger with one of my account managers...They want me to promote CD Poker.
    I stressed that I only promote sites that do not :xxx players. I was assured that CD Poker has a decent rep.
    I only ask for a yah or nah on the rep...Not a long story.
    Is CD Poker safe enough for players to list????
    I am currently in the process of making some sign up deals with CD Poker...however, I will drop them with a quickness if I must.
    Are they sound enough and safe enough for players today????

    Thank you
    and so sorry pina that this is off track, but I wanted it to be known that I do look out for players and not the money.
     
  38. Jun 4, 2006
  39. mucullus

    mucullus Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany

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