Jackpot Capital issue

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
(This conversation took place 30 seconds after creating my account.)

Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Thomas'

Thomas: Hello and welcome to our live chat service. How may I help you today?

skiny: Hello Thomas.

skiny: I clicked the cashier button and it says "An error occurred while loading the cashier. Please contact customer support"

skiny: Ok, now I closed the casino and reopened it and it says "You are not allowed to log in."

Thomas: I'm seeing that you didn't pas the security checks of our Risk Team, therefore you would not be able to hold an account with any of our casino products.

skiny: Pardon me?

skiny: What security checks?

skiny: lol

skiny: I asked two days ago via live chat if I ever had an account at this casino and gave the only email address I've ever used for any casino and was told no.

skiny: So today I come back, create an account and give all my correct information and you tell me I didn't pass some fantasy security check?

skiny: That's ridiculous.

Thomas: Security checks are performed on each player that has an account or recently opened an account. And our security checks are very real.

skiny: Then they're faulty.

Thomas: I'm sorry that you feel this way.

skiny: Because I asked this casino if I've ever had an account and was told no.

skiny: And every single piece of information is correct and I have photo ID and credit cards and utility bills to prove it.

Thomas: We pride ourselves on being very thorough with our account checks and details, therefore I fully trust the information available to me.

skiny: I'm glad you trust it because it's 100% wrong.

skiny: The only possible problem could be that I already had an account.

skiny: And if I do that's your fault not mine because I asked if I did before I created this one and was told no.

skiny: lol

skiny: You really do need to work on your security check because it is 100% inaccurate.

skiny: :)

skiny: Seriously... what kind of security check takes 30 seconds?

skiny: lol

skiny: I'm glad you don't work for homeland security.

skiny: Never in my entire life of online gambling have I ever tried to defraud any casino.

Thomas: Your account has been flagged by our risk filters and therefore you will be unable to have an account with any of our casino products at this time.

skiny: Firstly I want to know why and secondly I won't be opening an account here anyway. I would never trust a casino that pops off claims of fraud or risk in a 30 second security check.

skiny: That would be the first thing you did if I tried to get paid.

skiny: Withdrawal? No, you're flagged.

skiny: I can see that now from a mile away.

skiny: But I'd still like to know how your half assed 30 second security check found me to be some sort of risk.

skiny: lol

skiny: Come on, you can do it.

skiny: You can admit your security team consists of two pimply kids with a phone book.

skiny: lol

skiny: When I'm done removing Crackpot Crapital from my system I'm going to open this discussion in a couple of casino forums and I'd like to know how you and Sherlock Holmes over there found me out in 30 seconds.

skiny: lol

skiny: Hello?

skiny: lol

Thomas: One Moment

skiny: Thanks. :)

skiny: Seriously? Who is going to trust their money to a casino that is this quick to call their players cheaters or fraudsters?

skiny: You could never trust the casino to pay you.

skiny: Takes 30 seconds or less to decide a total stranger is a crook and all you need is his name, phone number and home address.

skiny: You should work for the FBI. Those poor buggers have to actually perform an investigation.

Thomas: Hello Sir based on the ongoing conversation it is best that we do not have any business with each other and the decision is final.

skiny: HA!

Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.



What the hell kind of security check takes 30 seconds to perform using only my name, address and phone number? (By the way, I moved 4 months ago and gave all correct and current information.)

What ever the security check is, if it wasn't a simple case of multiple accounts which would have been their fault it is 100% inaccurate and completely useless.
 

funeral979

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Location
Texas
Amazingly enough....Jackpot Capital didn't want my business either. Unfortunately I was able to make a deposit and lose first. Then I tried to make a second deposit a few weeks later and was not allowed to log in. I got the same BS that you did. My details were flagged. I asked why my details were ok to play at every other casino online. Just got some crap about risk filters. Whatever.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
huh...that's odd - I really like this group! I have accounts at all three of their casinos and I've never ever had a problem with them.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
huh...that's odd - I really like this group! I have accounts at all three of their casinos and I've never ever had a problem with them.
They only did the partial 15 second security check on you instead of the more expensive full 30 second security check.:thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Amazingly enough....Jackpot Capital didn't want my business either. Unfortunately I was able to make a deposit and lose first. Then I tried to make a second deposit a few weeks later and was not allowed to log in. I got the same BS that you did. My details were flagged. I asked why my details were ok to play at every other casino online. Just got some crap about risk filters. Whatever.

Could be some kind of clandestine blacklist being shared between SOME casinos. This could EASILY take 30 seconds or less to match against the registration details given and come up with a "risk profile".

It would be simply a matter of "on the list - no account for you". No need for any kind of further investigation.

Outside of fraud, this could be an "advantage player" driven list, where casinos share information on players who's playing strategy makes them "negative value". We already have BetPhoenix on record admitting that players are ejected simply because they are deemed "negative value" based on a variety of factors.

I cannot see how the data provided upon registration at an RTG casino can be used for anything other than a check for multiple accounts in the first 30 seconds. Other checks would involve getting independent data, and outside of a pre-loaded blacklist (or confirmation of a multiple account issue), this cannot be achieved within 30 seconds to a degree of confidence that has the casino saying it is "100% reliable".

Multiple accounts have been ruled out in this case, so it seems down to some kind of "risk list" where your registration details match those of a listed "bad player" somewhere within the RTG network.

If you have recently moved house, it could be the ADDRESS that is on the blacklist, because of the actions of the previous occupant. Casinos seem to have problems accepting that players DO move house, and that risk factors tied to addresses are NOT "100% accurate".

They should at least have invited you to submit documents up front to double check their systems, to ensure that the initial locking was based on legitimate data. Instead, they decided to ditch the opportunity of having you as a customer, as well as have you go away with a negative attitude towards this operator.

Despite what operators claim, I believe these player blacklists DO exist, and are used to weed out not just the fraudsters, but the advantage players deemed "negative value". The most blatant example of this has been the Rival central player rating system, where it has been ADMITTED that it is about weeding out the "bonus seekers" so that they don't get so many bonuses at what we are lead to believe are completely INDEPENDENT Rival powered casinos. I have never believed that operators would be HELPING their direct competitors in this manner, so suspected what later emerged, which was that ALL these "independent" Rival casinos were a sham, all owned and operated by Rival themselves, but MARKETED by their white label "partners", who were really just glorified affiliates.

There is also a level of clandestine connection between outwardly related RTG casinos, mostly members of the Virtual group, where it is in their interest to launch new brands distanced from the universal stigma of the Virtual brand in order to get players who read the rogue listings to chance playing there.

I don't think Jackpot Capital has ANYTHING to do with Virtual though, after all, JC pay their players, whereas Virtual only pay losers. Virtual would also have waited until you won before pulling this "risk flag" business, rather than pre-vetting accounts before the first deposit.

The main problem with this system is the total lack of a right to appeal the findings of this 30 second check, since it is deemed 100% accurate in weeding out the bad players. If it makes no mistakes, I would expect ALL players who make it past this check to have no further problems, nor have to provide documents, which is clearly NOT the case.
 

all4greed

Now we can do business.
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Location
Pacific NW
skiny: You can admit your security team consists of two pimply kids with a phone book.

Now that is comedy gold.:lolup:

Sometimes you just have to laugh it off.:rolleyes:
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
They only did the partial 15 second security check on you instead of the more expensive full 30 second security check.:thumbsup:

:lolup:

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that Jackpot Capital locked my account very briefly when I first signed up until they had received or approved my docs. I may not be remembering right - it was a long time ago, and it might have been a different casino.

Anyhow back OT - I'll be interested to see where this goes - the idea of a casino 'blacklist' has been rumored since I first started playing online. If this wasn't a multiple account issue then obviously 'risk management' is getting their information from someone else.
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
Could be some kind of clandestine blacklist being shared between SOME casinos. This could EASILY take 30 seconds or less to match against the registration details given and come up with a "risk profile".

It would be simply a matter of "on the list - no account for you". No need for any kind of further investigation.

Outside of fraud, this could be an "advantage player" driven list, where casinos share information on players who's playing strategy makes them "negative value". We already have BetPhoenix on record admitting that players are ejected simply because they are deemed "negative value" based on a variety of factors.

I cannot see how the data provided upon registration at an RTG casino can be used for anything other than a check for multiple accounts in the first 30 seconds. Other checks would involve getting independent data, and outside of a pre-loaded blacklist (or confirmation of a multiple account issue), this cannot be achieved within 30 seconds to a degree of confidence that has the casino saying it is "100% reliable".

Multiple accounts have been ruled out in this case, so it seems down to some kind of "risk list" where your registration details match those of a listed "bad player" somewhere within the RTG network.

If you have recently moved house, it could be the ADDRESS that is on the blacklist, because of the actions of the previous occupant. Casinos seem to have problems accepting that players DO move house, and that risk factors tied to addresses are NOT "100% accurate".

They should at least have invited you to submit documents up front to double check their systems, to ensure that the initial locking was based on legitimate data. Instead, they decided to ditch the opportunity of having you as a customer, as well as have you go away with a negative attitude towards this operator.

Despite what operators claim, I believe these player blacklists DO exist, and are used to weed out not just the fraudsters, but the advantage players deemed "negative value". The most blatant example of this has been the Rival central player rating system, where it has been ADMITTED that it is about weeding out the "bonus seekers" so that they don't get so many bonuses at what we are lead to believe are completely INDEPENDENT Rival powered casinos. I have never believed that operators would be HELPING their direct competitors in this manner, so suspected what later emerged, which was that ALL these "independent" Rival casinos were a sham, all owned and operated by Rival themselves, but MARKETED by their white label "partners", who were really just glorified affiliates.

There is also a level of clandestine connection between outwardly related RTG casinos, mostly members of the Virtual group, where it is in their interest to launch new brands distanced from the universal stigma of the Virtual brand in order to get players who read the rogue listings to chance playing there.

I don't think Jackpot Capital has ANYTHING to do with Virtual though, after all, JC pay their players, whereas Virtual only pay losers. Virtual would also have waited until you won before pulling this "risk flag" business, rather than pre-vetting accounts before the first deposit.

The main problem with this system is the total lack of a right to appeal the findings of this 30 second check, since it is deemed 100% accurate in weeding out the bad players. If it makes no mistakes, I would expect ALL players who make it past this check to have no further problems, nor have to provide documents, which is clearly NOT the case.

I completely agree with what you're saying except I'm not an advantage player. In fact if anything I'm a really disadvantaged player. I don't think I've cashed out at any casino since mid summer. I might have cashed out 3 times all year and none of them big. And I'm certainly not a fraudster. I have never even considered doing anything fraudulent against any casino in my entire life. If anything I'm honest to a fault. Just ask all my exgfs.

Now if there's a list of sarcastic, cynical jerks floating around online I'm quite possibly at the top. A lot of people don't seem to like my... "honesty."

Apparently it makes other people pee. (Jelly :rolleyes: )

You can love me or you can hate me, I don't care either way but what you can't do is accuse me of not being honest or posing some sort of security risk. That - I consider an insult.
 

jelsmith

Zombicidal Maniac
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Location
nashville tn
I completely agree with what you're saying except I'm not an advantage player. In fact if anything I'm a really disadvantaged player. I don't think I've cashed out at any casino since mid summer. I might have cashed out 3 times all year and none of them big. And I'm certainly not a fraudster. I have never even considered doing anything fraudulent against any casino in my entire life. If anything I'm honest to a fault. Just ask all my exgfs.

Now if there's a list of sarcastic, cynical jerks floating around online I'm quite possibly at the top. A lot of people don't seem to like my... "honesty."
Apparently it makes other people pee. (Jelly :rolleyes: )

You can love me or you can hate me, I don't care either way but what you can't do is accuse me of not being honest or posing some sort of security risk. That - I consider an insult.

:thumbsup::lolup::lolup:

Im on the Assholism list....maybe we can merge and become a power couple....:D
 

taysh075

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
New Zealand
Aside from the issue of the mysterious '30 second' risk check (which sounds like a load of bull), this has been the most entertaining and amusing thread I've read in ages. I'm chuckling out loud. Thanks for the laughs.:lolup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
:lolup:

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that Jackpot Capital locked my account very briefly when I first signed up until they had received or approved my docs. I may not be remembering right - it was a long time ago, and it might have been a different casino.

Anyhow back OT - I'll be interested to see where this goes - the idea of a casino 'blacklist' has been rumored since I first started playing online. If this wasn't a multiple account issue then obviously 'risk management' is getting their information from someone else.

In skiny's case however, this was a decision to PERMANENTLY lock his account based solely on this 30 second check. It was NOT about wanting documents up front.

I completely agree with what you're saying except I'm not an advantage player. In fact if anything I'm a really disadvantaged player. I don't think I've cashed out at any casino since mid summer. I might have cashed out 3 times all year and none of them big. And I'm certainly not a fraudster. I have never even considered doing anything fraudulent against any casino in my entire life. If anything I'm honest to a fault. Just ask all my exgfs.

Now if there's a list of sarcastic, cynical jerks floating around online I'm quite possibly at the top. A lot of people don't seem to like my... "honesty."

Apparently it makes other people pee. (Jelly :rolleyes: )

You can love me or you can hate me, I don't care either way but what you can't do is accuse me of not being honest or posing some sort of security risk. That - I consider an insult.

Casinos now seem to class even LOSING players as "advantage players". There have been cases of players who have LOST on each of their first few deposits, yet have been banned for "advantage play".

They MUST be getting additional information from SOMEWHERE other than what they are given by a new player at registration. I cannot see how they can confidently 100% verify the honesty of a player's details at registration in a mere 30 seconds. This can ONLY be the case if they have instant access to a bank of other information on players that have NEVER played with them before, and that this information is NOT just about fraud, but about PLAYING ACTIVITY at other casinos (advantage play, bonus abuse, etc).

The information typed in at registration is name, address, phone number, DOB, email address, gender. They can also GATHER in real time data like IP address, MAC address, data from the Windows registry, running processes, etc. This is all they have to work with in the first 30 seconds.

The ONLY thing they can do quickly is check for internal inconsistencies in this data, mainly for duplicate accounts already in the system. This has been ruled out in skiny's case since he asked support to check for this beforehand, and support would not LIE would they.

Unless a player is "up to something", the worst that should happen at this stage is a request for documents up front.

Aside from the issue of the mysterious '30 second' risk check (which sounds like a load of bull), this has been the most entertaining and amusing thread I've read in ages. I'm chuckling out loud. Thanks for the laughs.:lolup:

This was not just a 30 second check, it was one the casino had 100% ABSOLUTE faith in to NEVER make a mistake.

This IS bullshit, as such a cursory test is CERTAIN to make mistakes that can only be sorted out by further investigation.

In all likelihood, this will turn out to be caused by support LYING to skiny when they told him there were no other accounts for him on the system, rather than admitting that they were unable to tell him this information at the time. Maybe support couldn't be bothered to check this, because they knew the system would check this when he registered, so just told him what he wanted to hear so that he WOULD register so as to enable the checking to take place. Had support said they couldn't check this, they risked losing a customer because skiny may not have registered simply because support could not tell him it was OK to do so. Until skiny registered, the 30 second check could not take place, so right up until this point he was STILL a potential player, and income generator for the casino.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
I completely agree with what you're saying except I'm not an advantage player. In fact if anything I'm a really disadvantaged player. I don't think I've cashed out at any casino since mid summer. I might have cashed out 3 times all year and none of them big.
You can be an advantage player and be unlucky and lose. The optimal long term advantage strategy is agressive and carries a high probability of loss.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
You can be an advantage player and be unlucky and lose. The optimal long term advantage strategy is agressive and carries a high probability of loss.

If this turns out to be down to skiny being identified as an advantage player by other casinos, we have PROOF that such a player blacklist circulates between casinos. Only Rival have so far admitted (grudgingly) to be operating such a system across all Rival powered casinos. RTG could easily be doing the same, after all they are pretty secretive about the internal workings of their software & policies, and some pretty "groundbreaking" truths have emerged about what were once thought to be the rantings of disgruntled losers (like the fact that the same games can have considerably different RTPs in different casinos).
 

Mavin1

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
Arizona
If this turns out to be down to skiny being identified as an advantage player by other casinos, we have PROOF that such a player blacklist circulates between casinos. Only Rival have so far admitted (grudgingly) to be operating such a system across all Rival powered casinos. RTG could easily be doing the same, after all they are pretty secretive about the internal workings of their software & policies, and some pretty "groundbreaking" truths have emerged about what were once thought to be the rantings of disgruntled losers (like the fact that the same games can have considerably different RTPs in different casinos).


Good points and I say if one software can do this, then all have the same capability.

I also can't help but wonder if they have blacklists for posting on forums?
 
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