Is this really acceptable.....

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
...or am I being a little too sensitive.....? I think not.

The Casino : Accredited, RTG

The Player : Me. 5 figured depositer over the past 12 months.

The Core Problem : I want to get fully paid now

The Scene : :

I am based in the UK but play in US$. I only knew until recently that it was possible to play in UK. That aside, this 'accredited' casino has the following terms and conditions : Please also note that, apart from Network Progressive Jackpot wins, the maximum withdrawal per week is $//3,000. As such cash out requests of a larger amount will be paid in weekly instalments. That in itself is a joke but let's leave that for another debate. I win $5,600 over the weekend :D

So What's The Problem? :

1. I asked customer service on Sunday to 'flush' my account. "Not possible, the cashier dosen't work over the weekend. It will be done on Monday and your withdrawal processed immediately".

Fair enough but clearly it could have been flushed. I mean, does the Cashier accept money over the weekend. No, stop it, I am being cynical.

2. I receive $3,000 on Tuesday and the remaining is still sitting in my account. I contact Live Help and receive what I think is the most incompetent level of communication you can imagine from a casino that is 'safe' to use. Let me say first that their terms do not state that if you are playing with a $US account, you can only withdraw $3k a week. It clearly wasn't obvious to me. I assumed that if you were a UK player, you could withdraw up to 3k per week or the nearest equivelant which would be circa $6k. Perhaps I am thick. OK, so my payment gets delayed for a week. No major deal but what the hell is this and what relevance does 90% of it have.

Unreal. And I was getting hacked off. The representitive clearly couldn't understand this and had not intention of keeping hold of a customer who will not be playing there again. It's his actions and lack of customer care that have convinced me I am better playing elsewhere. Edited for obvious reasons but here it is in full with some sarcastic comments in italics which weren't part of the conversation! I couldn't help it! What do you think?


Casino: Hi how can I help you today?

Me: Hi, I am concerned that I have not received my second withdrawal. It has now been 4 days, I asked for my account to be 'flushed'. My request wasn't actioned. I now have not received my funds - please advise.

Me: Hello?

Casino: One moment I am just loading your account.

Me: Ok

(10 minutes later)

Casino : All is ok on your account, the transaction was just 2 days ago and could be processed tomorrow.

(note the word could)

Me: Ok, actually, the transaction was made on Sunday I believe, today is Wednesday. Normally, you are very fast and I was getting concerned. If you could express it for me I would appreciate it.

Casino: I can't process it sorry.. was on the 12.

(here we go)

Me: Ok, it wasn't actually - I know when I made the cash in. I haven't played this week. But ok, if you say so. The issue is that normally, I receive money very quickly. The second I actually win something, it takes longer! If you look at my account, you will see that I have not played this week so your records are incorrect. Anyway, if it is done tomorrow then fine.

Casino: No 1 sec

Me: Ok

(some good news coming!)

Casino: You have been paid the 12.

Me: For the first cashin yes, I made 2 at the same time.

Casino: The max amount is $3000 per week.

Me: Then your website is incorrect. It says 3,000 per week.

(At this point it crossed my mind that the max withdrawal is related to the type of account you have rather than where you live. Even though I get paid in $US, I receive the money in UK. Anyway, from here on, it is bizarre).

Casino: Yes so it say that.

Me: So...????!!!! I am not being unreasonable here!

Casino: You received $3000 2 days ago. One week is made of 7 not of 2 days.

(a good joke)

Me: Chris, 3k = $6k.

Casino: Why you double now?

Me: I have only cashed in $5.5k which is circa 2.5k.

Casino Do you play poker?

Me:No

Casino Dont bluff

(the second joke...I think...now I am getting p***ed)

Me: Listen, this is no joke - I am being serious. I am a loyal customer. 1 = $1.95

Casino:??

Me: I am a UK player. I am based in the UK. The funds go to click 2 pay and received by me in .

Casino: We are in uk 2

(so what?)

Casino:Ok well the system you used is in $. If you play in the uk casino you may use .

Me: Well, I didn't know that. Whichever way you look at it 3k = more than $5.5k and that's all I am trying to draw out.

Casino:We have no control over the exchange rate.

(so what again - what is this guy on?)


Me: Ok, I have had enough of this:

1. Please refer this to your manager.
2. If you make me wait another 5 days then fine.
3. Perhaps ask your manager to look into my account. If you want to lose a value customer, then fine.

Casino: Ok, the cashier process the transaction for the payments.

Me: Ok, the cashier then

Casino: k k

Me: Honestly, I am really dissapointed

Casino: Those are the terms. We follow them.

(What a great thing to say to calm a customer. Genuis. Perhaps explaining the rules of being a little pro-active would help?)

Me:Fine and I am a customer with a choice. Do you not think that when I spoke to your customer service people over the weekend, they should have told me then??

(let's not answer that one)

Casino: Maybe would be better to use a n account in usd.

(excuse me?)

Me: How much have I deposited with you guys over the last 12 months? I am using an account in USD#.

Casino: Could be worth to open 1 I think.. online gaming is more in usd and you could keep your fund in $. Then use them without fees and rates or keep the funds maybe.

(whatever)

Me: Ok, fine. Thank you for your help - please refer it. You have clearly totally misunderstood my position. Thank you for your time.

Casino: Ok no probs I ll ask to doublecheck to see what is possible you welcome.




OK, vent over. :sob:
 

DemonUK

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Location
Warrington, UK
I think you need to thank your lucky stars they didn't pull the 'you're playing in the wrong currency' and clean out your account.

If you're account is in dollars then you must read the $ terms which I am sure you know.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
I think you need to thank your lucky stars they didn't pull the 'you're playing in the wrong currency' and clean out your account.

If you're account is in dollars then you must read the $ terms which I am sure you know.

You are right. The terms are not entirely clear though and the Casino have no problem what currency you play in. That's not the point. It is the way in which I was dealt with my an accredited casino. This is another example of poor customer service from people that expect you to give them your hard earned money!
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I agree the customer service is Neanderthal to say the least, but the following terms says to me:

Please also note that, apart from Network Progressive Jackpot wins, the maximum withdrawal per week is $//3,000. As such cash out requests of a larger amount will be paid in weekly instalments.

...that the max cashout is 3000 units of whichever currency your account operates in - in this case, USD, therefor your max would be USD$3000 (regardless of how it is converted afterwards by any other party)

Its the way I have always understood the "$//" part and it is standard practice in terms and conditions, given that accounts can be held in any of those currencies.

The casino hasnt done anything against their stated terms here, but the customer service, as I said, is disgusting.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Well.....

The casino hasnt done anything against their stated terms here, but the customer service, as I said, is disgusting.

I agree and as already said, waiting another week isn't a problem but this joker has lost them the business from now on. At no point, did he actually explained the situation and thought that humour a.k.a. poor sarcasm and the total inability to listen was the best way forward. Compare that to the Live Chat on 3Dice as an example, chalk and cheese.

These people should realise that they might run their business remotely and deal with 'faceless' customers but...treat us like idiots and we will go elsewhere. I don't care whether I talk to someone on the phone, by e-mail or in person - I treat them with respect. The comments that really did it for me were "Do you play poker...don't bluff". Bizarre.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I am pretty sure which accredited RTG this is (not hard really with RTG :D).

This CS rep failed to understand your point, and resorted to patronising you over the matter. The limit is indeed related to the currency of your casino account, and not your home currency. The CS should have explained this straight away, and suggested you might like to substitute a UK Pound account for your US Dollar one, and have a 3K weekly limit.

The smoothest way to handle these limits I think is to make each withdrawal to the max, rather than one big one.

When I did rather well at what was probably this same casino, I assumed the limit was based on the currency of the account, and simply withdrew chunks of $3000, and made notes of when to expect each one, sending a reminder to the CS on the day the next one fell due so that there was less room for forgetfulness.
These low weekly limits are a common, if highly annoying, feature of RTG casinos. While some MG casinos have had limits, they have been far higher, and catch far fewer players.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Understood....

...and appreciated. To be honest, the t&c's are an irrelevance now - it's the CS that gets me.

Re the RTG casino in question, they know who they are and I am confident will be reading this thread shortly :D Up to them whether they want to take this matter further. At the end of the day, you would think that they will not want to lose what is fairly substantial business...but you never know.

Re limits in general, I understand the concept of the logic - it helps them control cashflow / limit exposure. We as players must surely understand that.

I don't think so :)

The odds are stacked up against the player from the start. One player's luck is another one's loss. If money in = more than money out (which it must do or they wouldn't be in business), they shouldn't limit the amount they pay. Perhaps if I deposit $6k today, they won't actually take half of it from me until next week. Surely that would be fair. Put it another way, why would a player playing anything over $5 a spin, deposit with them? You win anything half decent and it will take weeks to get your cash. No thank you!

julester
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
...and appreciated. To be honest, the t&c's are an irrelevance now - it's the CS that gets me.

Re the RTG casino in question, they know who they are and I am confident will be reading this thread shortly :D Up to them whether they want to take this matter further. At the end of the day, you would think that they will not want to lose what is fairly substantial business...but you never know.

Re limits in general, I understand the concept of the logic - it helps them control cashflow / limit exposure. We as players must surely understand that.

I don't think so :)

The odds are stacked up against the player from the start. One player's luck is another one's loss. If money in = more than money out (which it must do or they wouldn't be in business), they shouldn't limit the amount they pay. Perhaps if I deposit $6k today, they won't actually take half of it from me until next week. Surely that would be fair. Put it another way, why would a player playing anything over $5 a spin, deposit with them? You win anything half decent and it will take weeks to get your cash. No thank you!

julester

The money that goes to the house, 5% on slots, does not sit around doing nothing, it goes out in operating costs, and of course, profits taken out of the business by the owners. Only a certain level is left as a "float". The float increases with player deposits, and decreases with withdrawals. Money contributed to progresive pools is stored in a separate float, and has been collected already, thus no need to impose any limit on such payouts. Wins on other games may or may not have been collected through deposits, it is a matter of timing. A weekly limit for all protects the casino from being in a position of having to admit to a player they do not have the funds to pay them right away, and they must exceptionally wait for more funds to come in. By imposing limits irrespective of where their float is at any one time, they ensure that they always pay on time as per terms. They also save by not having to borrow short term funds to make a big payout to players, but can cope with the internal float by using the weekly limit.
The fact that the limit is so low makes it more of a problem as it is hit far more frequently by far more players, thus it is more of an issue. Many players never win enough to be hit by higher limits, so are often not aware they exist.
An alternative method of controlling cashflow would remove the need for such low limits, but it could well increase the costs for the casino, and leave them exposed to spells of bad luck (good luck for players of course:D ) where they might struggle to keep up with payments for a short time while they wait for other players to deposit into the float.
 

BetOnLow

Dormant account
Joined
May 7, 2008
Location
Costa Rica
I'm with you 100% on the CS point, although I've seen a lot worse, this kind of blase non-comprendo treatment would pi$$ me off too. The whole deal with online casinos is that the lack of overheads in comparison with landbased casinos means you can afford to get quality staff to man the desks and make sure everybody is happy. Having come from an OC support background myself it's something I feel very strongly about.

If I was you I would maybe make a complaint about the quality of service, and then see if your feedback makes any difference. It might also be worth finding out how much they value your custom - do they consider you a VIP player? If so, then IMO you should be receiving VIP treatment, faster cashouts, higher maximums, and all round special treatment :)

As far as the regular withdrawal limit goes, you just gotta do the boring but necessary read thru of the T&C's before playing anywhere new. On the good side, at least you know where you stand now!

Good luck with this!
 

james01

Dormant account
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Germany
I agree that the service is severely sup-par - The rep's English is terrible, they don't understand what you're getting at, and they don't actually seem to care.

As for the other issue, it does make sense that if you play in dollars and your winnings are given in terms of dollars, your cash out limit would be the dollar limit not the limit in Sterling.

Unfortunately, for the first part, they really don't care who they get for customer service. There is good CS available at reasonable prices, but they prefer to get the absolute cheapest.

I think they figure that if the CS is absolutely horrid, people won't bother with them. I know that I've gotten CS people on the phone with accents so heavy that I literally couldn't understand whether they'd said "yes" or "no."

You'd think that in a business with such high potential for earning, they'd put in the effort to run their business reasonably.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Update

Well, regardless of their terms and conditions, I was paid yesterday :) and have a message on my mobile from someone in CS. It will be interesting to see what they say about the situation. Will report back.

Thanks for everyones comments / feedback to-date.
 

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