Question Is this casino being unhelpful?

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
Hi,

I am trying to make a complaint to an online casino. I am not going to reveal the casino name at the moment, but I would be happy to when my issue is resolved. I would like some advice from the pros on this forum :cool:.

In summary, the casino owes me a bit of money since December 2012. Yes you read that right, December 2012. It is one of those things that I chased up a bunch of times, then slips down your todo list. They paid me in the past, sometimes there were issues when they said they had sent the money and they had not and I had to send them lots of bank statements to prove it never arrived.

Anyway, the issue I have is they are not being co-operative when I am trying to make a complaint. I have posted the email chain below:

------------------------------------

Me to Casino:

Its not really acceptable.

I have been waiting patiently over 6 months.

How do I make a formal complaint.

------------------------------------

Casino to me:

Thank you for contacting us.

Regarding a formal complaint, you have to check with the relevant authorities in your country.

As advised in the previous email, our casino manager has been informed and will contact you as soon as possible.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Please click here to rate the response you received in this email.

Kind regards,

------------------------------------

Me to Casino:

Are you regulated?

------------------------------------

Casino to me:

Kindly have a look at our terms and conditions regarding this query starting with point 24.

If you find anything to be not clear enough please contact us again and we will happily provide you with an explanation.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

-----------------------------------

Me to Casino:

"xxxxxxxx, an International Business Corporation incorporated under the laws of Curacao, is fully licensed and regulated by the laws of that country, for the purpose of conducting the operations."

Can you please provide with the contact details, phone, email of your regulator in curaco?

----------------------------------

Casino to me:

Unfortunately we don't have a regulator with contact details.

As it is mentionned in this text, we are licensed and regulated by the laws of that country so there isn't any phone number or email address linked to this.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

----------------------------------

I've read about the complaints process at Casinomeister and I read that people have been able to get their issues resolved this way, firstly I am trying to resolve this on my own.

Thanks for reading, appreciate any comments.
 

CasinoBen

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Location
Marbella
Hi,

I am trying to make a complaint to an online casino. I am not going to reveal the casino name at the moment, but I would be happy to when my issue is resolved. I would like some advice from the pros on this forum :cool:.

In summary, the casino owes me a bit of money since December 2012. Yes you read that right, December 2012. It is one of those things that I chased up a bunch of times, then slips down your todo list. They paid me in the past, sometimes there were issues when they said they had sent the money and they had not and I had to send them lots of bank statements to prove it never arrived.

Anyway, the issue I have is they are not being co-operative when I am trying to make a complaint. I have posted the email chain below:

------------------------------------

Me to Casino:

Its not really acceptable.

I have been waiting patiently over 6 months.

How do I make a formal complaint.

------------------------------------

Casino to me:

Thank you for contacting us.

Regarding a formal complaint, you have to check with the relevant authorities in your country.

As advised in the previous email, our casino manager has been informed and will contact you as soon as possible.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Please click here to rate the response you received in this email.

Kind regards,

------------------------------------

Me to Casino:

Are you regulated?

------------------------------------

Casino to me:

Kindly have a look at our terms and conditions regarding this query starting with point 24.

If you find anything to be not clear enough please contact us again and we will happily provide you with an explanation.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

-----------------------------------

Me to Casino:

"xxxxxxxx, an International Business Corporation incorporated under the laws of Curacao, is fully licensed and regulated by the laws of that country, for the purpose of conducting the operations."

Can you please provide with the contact details, phone, email of your regulator in curaco?

----------------------------------

Casino to me:

Unfortunately we don't have a regulator with contact details.

As it is mentionned in this text, we are licensed and regulated by the laws of that country so there isn't any phone number or email address linked to this.

Should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

----------------------------------

I've read about the complaints process at Casinomeister and I read that people have been able to get their issues resolved this way, firstly I am trying to resolve this on my own.

Thanks for reading, appreciate any comments.

Hi Thenry,

Welcome to Casinomeister, I am sure you will love it here.

Waiting since December, you might be the most patient person I have ever met. :D

I would first check to see if the casino in question has a rep on the forum and send them a PM. You can check out the iGaming Reps here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/?key=staff_members

If that fails I would consider the PAB process, you can find all the details here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

I believe that you will have more luck with Bryan and Max trying to sort out your problem than trying to go through the Curacao complaints procedure if there is actually one.

Best of luck,

Ben
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Unfortunately we don't have a regulator with contact details.

:lolup:

You have probably been screwed over.

What use is a regulator that cannot be contacted to make a complaint about a breach of said regulations.

Anyway, I have found a contact for you at their regulator's office so that you may make your complaint:rolleyes:
 

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thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
Unfortunately they do not have an iGaming Rep here.

I have found some details for their regulator, they do have a valid license with an organisation called cyberluck.

Has anyone ever contacted cyberluck before?

To give a bit more background, they say they need to speak to me on the phone, which I dont have a problem with, but they never ring! I cannot pick up the phone at work and they said it needs to be in office hours. I am working from home today so I told them they can ring ALL DAY. If they dont ring today I might have a look at the PAB in a bit more detail before I get started on that.

Thanks for the replies :)
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Unfortunately they do not have an iGaming Rep here.

I have found some details for their regulator, they do have a valid license with an organisation called cyberluck.

Has anyone ever contacted cyberluck before?

To give a bit more background, they say they need to speak to me on the phone, which I dont have a problem with, but they never ring! I cannot pick up the phone at work and they said it needs to be in office hours. I am working from home today so I told them they can ring ALL DAY. If they dont ring today I might have a look at the PAB in a bit more detail before I get started on that.

Thanks for the replies :)

You may be wasting your time. I would recommend submitting a PAB and Max will be able to contact the casino peeps. If it goes pear-shaped, then we can take it from there.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Unfortunately they do not have an iGaming Rep here.

I have found some details for their regulator, they do have a valid license with an organisation called cyberluck.

Has anyone ever contacted cyberluck before?

To give a bit more background, they say they need to speak to me on the phone, which I dont have a problem with, but they never ring! I cannot pick up the phone at work and they said it needs to be in office hours. I am working from home today so I told them they can ring ALL DAY. If they dont ring today I might have a look at the PAB in a bit more detail before I get started on that.

Thanks for the replies :)


Stalling tactic. They can claim they haven't done the phone verification to make it appear that YOU are the one holding things up.

How come it has to be UK office hours if they are in Curacao. Surely it is THEIR office hours that they work to, and this would mean their working afternoon is our evening, and you should be able to take the call at home.

If they don't ring today when you are working from home, just PAB and let Max put pressure on them. Once Max knows which casino this is, he can better advise you on your chances.

If you DO get the money, do some thorough research and make sure you don't get suckered by a related casino.

Curacao isn't a proper regulator as there is no complaints process nor "official" mediation service available. The whole "regulation" there is about tax avoidance for the operator, along with the ability to remain well cloaked so that the US authorities find it hard to go after them.

PAB is probably the best mediation service able to help in this situation.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I share the opinions here that a PAB is more likely to receive attention and results than emailing the Curacao jurisdiction, which like most regulators in obscure places has hardly established a reputation for being player-friendly or even sensitive....as VWM comments, for Curacao regulation equals easy way to raise money.

I would go with Max - the threat of widespread negative publicity and its impact on business will almost certainly work better than emailing a so-called regulator that in the past has not even bothered to reply to complaint communications.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
You can send an email to [email protected] describing your problem and the casino with whom you are having the problem.

You can also submit the same information at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Email may be preferable because that allows you to maintain a record of the communication.

Chris

Well, if there is a complaints procedure, the casino lied to the player in saying that there wasn't. This is no "white lie" either, but a SERIOUS misdirection. If this casino is so afraid of the Curacao regulators that they lie to a player in order to stop them trying even the most ineffective means of raising a complaint, they must have something to hide.

I share the opinions here that a PAB is more likely to receive attention and results than emailing the Curacao jurisdiction, which like most regulators in obscure places has hardly established a reputation for being player-friendly or even sensitive....as VWM comments, for Curacao regulation equals easy way to raise money.

I would go with Max - the threat of widespread negative publicity and its impact on business will almost certainly work better than emailing a so-called regulator that in the past has not even bothered to reply to complaint communications.

Only if this is a casino that has yet to come to the attention of the mayor of rogue city.

I suspect this is either one of the less competent Rival white labels, or one of the cloaked Virtual group casinos (the ones that "rebranded" in order to wriggle out of being implicated in all the bad PR, and identifiable in pit listings).

Rival are no-can-do I believe, and Virtual have said they will listen to PABs, but will they play fair?
 

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
THenry 14,

Can you enlighten me as to what the terms and conditions pt. 24 is?

Below is point 24. I have blanked out the casino name.

"xxxxxxxx, an International Business Corporation incorporated under the laws of Curacao, is fully licensed and regulated by the laws of that country, for the purpose of conducting the operations."
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
Is the casino delaying the payment or openly refusing to pay?

If the casino has agreed that you won fairly it's a different story than if there's a claim by the casino that some term has been breached.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Below is point 24. I have blanked out the casino name.

"xxxxxxxx, an International Business Corporation incorporated under the laws of Curacao, is fully licensed and regulated by the laws of that country, for the purpose of conducting the operations."

Of only two hits from Google on that exact wording, only one has it at point 24.

Point 40 should be of far more interest.


40.This Agreement, the interpretation and execution thereof, and the relationship between the parties, shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with, the laws of United Kingdom.

This means the laws of Curacao do not govern the agreement, even though this is where they have the servers and are regulated.

Assuming I am right, send the casino an email pointing out their own term 40, and that you intend to take action under the laws of the United Kingdom as stated.

It also explains why they work to UK office hours, rather than those in Curacao.

Of course, I could be wrong, but no other example of this exact wording sequence appears in Google for any other Curacao regulated casino at point 24, and only one other with this exact wording at any point in the terms.
 

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
Is the casino delaying the payment or openly refusing to pay?

If the casino has agreed that you won fairly it's a different story than if there's a claim by the casino that some term has been breached.

I'm not quite sure what they are doing, they are certainly dragging their feet. They have never claimed I have done anything wrong, just that they want to speak to me on the phone. I've sent them multiple bank statements, copies of my ID, at one point they even asked for a picture of me holding my ID!!!! Before this issue I had made at least 10 deposits and had at least 4 withdrawals. This was over a 1 year period.

After not receiving a call yesterday during working hours I received this response:

----------------------------------
From casino to me:

Our Casino manager is in the office about 24/7.

Our manager tried to call you various times, however unfortunately it wasn't possible to reach you.

We have forwarded your number information and the times you are available so that our manager can contact you as soon as possible.

Have a nice weekend.

----------------------------------

I have not received any missed calls from them so I don't think they have tried to call me. Maybe if my phone was off it would not show as a missed call, I'm not sure.

Good point about the UK Vinylweatherman, I didnt think of that. Bringing a court case against them might be difficult if they dont have a UK address though.
 

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
You can send an email to [email protected] describing your problem and the casino with whom you are having the problem.

You can also submit the same information at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Email may be preferable because that allows you to maintain a record of the communication.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

Looking through your profile you are an igaming representative. Have you worked with Curacao Regulators before?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I'm not quite sure what they are doing, they are certainly dragging their feet. They have never claimed I have done anything wrong, just that they want to speak to me on the phone. I've sent them multiple bank statements, copies of my ID, at one point they even asked for a picture of me holding my ID!!!! Before this issue I had made at least 10 deposits and had at least 4 withdrawals. This was over a 1 year period.

After not receiving a call yesterday during working hours I received this response:

----------------------------------
From casino to me:

Our Casino manager is in the office about 24/7.

Our manager tried to call you various times, however unfortunately it wasn't possible to reach you.

We have forwarded your number information and the times you are available so that our manager can contact you as soon as possible.

Have a nice weekend.

----------------------------------

I have not received any missed calls from them so I don't think they have tried to call me. Maybe if my phone was off it would not show as a missed call, I'm not sure.

Good point about the UK Vinylweatherman, I didnt think of that. Bringing a court case against them might be difficult if they dont have a UK address though.

It might be difficult, but since they use UK law to govern the contract, this could get the authorities interested in digging deeper.

It seems odd that you wait all day for a call that never comes, and then receive an email claiming they tried "several times", but couldn't get you.

If your phone was off, this would only mean it didn't ring, but it seems pretty odd that "several" attempts all just happened to come whilst your phone was off. To me, this sounds like another stalling tactic intended to buy time, and only when they need no further time will they actually make a realistic effort to call you.

If you set your phone to go straight to answerphone, you will at least be able to see any missed calls in the log, and your answerphone may also show how realistic their attempt was. Even if a phone is switched off, there should be an attempted call log with the carrier.

It seems this is not going anywhere, so maybe only a PAB will be able to wake them up.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
PABinit
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I'm not quite sure what they are doing, they are certainly dragging their feet. They have never claimed I have done anything wrong, just that they want to speak to me on the phone. I've sent them multiple bank statements, copies of my ID, at one point they even asked for a picture of me holding my ID!!!! Before this issue I had made at least 10 deposits and had at least 4 withdrawals. This was over a 1 year period.

After not receiving a call yesterday during working hours I received this response:

----------------------------------
From casino to me:

Our Casino manager is in the office about 24/7.

Our manager tried to call you various times, however unfortunately it wasn't possible to reach you.

We have forwarded your number information and the times you are available so that our manager can contact you as soon as possible.

Have a nice weekend.

----------------------------------

I have not received any missed calls from them so I don't think they have tried to call me. Maybe if my phone was off it would not show as a missed call, I'm not sure.

Good point about the UK Vinylweatherman, I didnt think of that. Bringing a court case against them might be difficult if they dont have a UK address though.

Unless they need to verify your information what's the point of contacting you by phone. I actually think you can name and shame the casino. Its pretty obvious they don't want to pay you. There have been several casinos who ask for players for pictures of themselves holding teir ID and if I remember correctly they were mainly Rival casinos.
 

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
I have not named the casino as I don't want to seem like I am trying to blackmail them, raising the issue on a public forum. I will happily reveal the name once this is sorted. It isn't a Rival casino.

I've given the casino until end of day Monday to give me a call. A phone call shouldnt take longer than 60 seconds so I can't see any excuse for them not to call in that timeframe.

After reading the PAB FAQ, point 2.6 (here) it looks like I shouldnt be posting anything on the forum. As such, I've decided to keep schtum on the subject until this is resolved. censored

Hopefully I will be able to provide you all with an update when this is sorted. Thanks for all the advice so far.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I have not named the casino as I don't want to seem like I am trying to blackmail them, raising the issue on a public forum. I will happily reveal the name once this is sorted. It isn't a Rival casino.

I've given the casino until end of day Monday to give me a call. A phone call shouldnt take longer than 60 seconds so I can't see any excuse for them not to call in that timeframe.

After reading the PAB FAQ, point 2.6 (here) it looks like I shouldnt be posting anything on the forum. As such, I've decided to keep schtum on the subject until this is resolved. censored

Hopefully I will be able to provide you all with an update when this is sorted. Thanks for all the advice so far.


Just make sure your phone is always on and able to log all incoming calls. Even have someone place a call to your phone to prove that calls are getting through. Presumably, they will pay once they have managed to contact you.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Maybe send them an email with the correct international routing number for your country .

I seem to recall an issue a number of years ago where a casino was failing to reach a player because they were not dialing the correct number.

But since it's been six months, I think it is just more stalling to be honest.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Maybe send them an email with the correct international routing number for your country .

I seem to recall an issue a number of years ago where a casino was failing to reach a player because they were not dialing the correct number.

But since it's been six months, I think it is just more stalling to be honest.

All very well, but the casino staff should have a lookup table for this, and know that they have to use it for their customer base since in most cases ALL their customers are "foreign" as nearly all offshore regulators ban their own citizens from playing. In some cases, the correct way to place an international call is down to the caller and their service provider. If they get the code wrong, it's possible that they do get a valid number and a ringing phone, but it's the wrong one.

Since players have to provide their country when registering, the casino should know what country they are calling.

The OP should make sure that the number they sent does not contain any silly typos, and the casino should make sure that the number they dial is the one given to them, and that the correct code is used for their own location.

To dial the UK, the country code is 44. It is then necessary to omit the leading zero of the number. For example, 0145 2356 786 would be dialled as 44 145 2356 786 from outside the UK. If the call is coming from UK offices, there should be no such problem.

I recall a similar issue that went to PAB, and Max or Bryan also tried to call the player as part of the investigation process as the casino claimed it could not get through. For this reason, a PAB that the OP has now submitted will show whether the casino's claim is true.

Proving you haven't received a call is pretty hard, so it would be a clever way for a casino to stall. Showing you called a specific number is easy, and so of course is proving you DIDN'T call a specific number in a specified timeframe.
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
I think at this point knowing what casino the OP is dealing with and if this is a large amount of money would give some idea if he's being stalled or if he's just not going to get paid.

If this is a legitimate casino there might be a reason for it. If this is a rogue operation you might be waiting for hell to freeze over.
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
there's only one casino with that term in point 24 - just Google it under " " and you'll know who there are.

there are two hits in total, but one with 24. as the term.
 

thenry14

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
UK
I am gald to report that this issue is resolved. In the end they didn't both calling but asked for all sorts of pictures like me holding my Drivers License, Passport and Debit Card. Felt like I was a criminal getting photographed at the police station!

I was paid via bank transfer which arrived 2 days ago. Apparently they are unable to make payments via card back to my VISA, making withdrawals very cumbersome. :confused:

The withdrawal took 271 days, best part of a year, which I'm sure you will agree is unacceptable and I will not be depositing again. Having said that, they DID pay eventually. Maybe this was an exception rather than the rule :what:

The casino was 7Red. If someone could update the title of this thread it might be easier for others to find.

Thanks for your advice everyone.
 
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