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Is this a sneaky term?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by mattsgame, Aug 8, 2012.

    Aug 8, 2012
  1. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    So I have been working on a new design for my site and going through all the casinos I list to make sure they cater for whom I offer the casinos to.

    I noticed that a welcome bonus from one of the casinos was not valid for the area. So I inspected the rest of the casinos in the group and found this interesting term.

    6.2.2
    All game play, both for real cash and practice play, on the Universal Monsters Slot Games (e.g Frankenstein) is prohibited from any territories outside of the below stated nations (and for this reason no potential winnings generated from these games will be paid out): Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Israel, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Ukraine, Croatia, Macedonia, Turkey, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and United Kingdom.


    Any thoughts? am I reading to much into it?

    Cheers Matt
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Aug 8, 2012
  3. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Well my first thought is, how on earth could they pay out "potential winnings" anyway? :eek2:
    And what happens to the "potential losses" is the player is going to be unlucky?

    My second thought is it's some sort of licencing restriction imposed by Universal (?), or whoever owns the rights to those themes.

    Is this "Frankenstein" game the NetEnt one?

    KK
     
  4. Aug 8, 2012
  5. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Lol nevermind as i was posting you edited your post ^^

    As far as i can see it just means that the listed countries are allowed to play, both real and practice, and any potential winnings are paid.
    It's a case of a poorly formulated, or translated rule.
    Potential should probably mean that if you play, and win, whilst being in a restricted country (any country not listed there) the potential is just that, "not a reality yet" (and then never will be:)
     
  6. Aug 8, 2012
  7. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Yeah, sorry about that - I mis-read Matt's post first time - but then noticed right after I posted... :oops:

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Aug 8, 2012
  9. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Careful as I try to be reading terms, it is usually restricted Countries listed in terms. I can use a seach function to check for Canada.

    I really hate when lists of countries is not presented alphabetically, that's just sloppy and lazy IMO.

    Have you checked yourself if you are blocked from access to those games?

    Also, if there is more than one slot restricted they should list them all, rather than one EG.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Aug 11, 2012
  11. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    .

    I think it is some of the Betsson brands who have this rule, both white label and in-house brands.

    I am giving a heads up to their rep, maybe he could give an explanation in this thread :cool:

    I agree Jasminebed. It is quite sloppy not to list countries alphabetically.
     
  12. Aug 11, 2012
  13. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    Sorry everyone, completely forgot I posted this.

    Yep you are correct, the thing is I asked about Aussies and Betsson casinos and was told we were fine, so I listed them on my site.

    I then found out at Casino Euro Aussies cannot claim the welcome bonus, so I went digging into the rest of the group to see if we could claim it else were and found this term. So now I am looking at pulling them all as I would be putting my players at risk.

    I loaded the game fine, I do not have any funds in the casino but it does not seem to be blocked for access.
    The other problem I have is the term is vague: All game play, both for real cash and practice play, on the Universal Monsters Slot Games (e.g Frankenstein) is prohibited.

    Saying E.G Frankenstein would be like an MG casino coming out and saying: All game play, both for real cash and practice play, on Thunderstruck and Clones(e.g Agent Jane Blonde) is prohibited. Ok so maybe not quite the same, but I think you get my point.

    I just pray that Nodicbet do not have to take this route :( it would be a sad day indeed.

    Cheers
    Matt
     
  14. Aug 11, 2012
  15. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    The welcome bonus rule you are referring to at CasinoEuro is this:

    But I checked Betsafe and it looks like Aussies can claim a welcome bonus there:

    I also did not find the strange Frankenstein-rule at Betsafe (did not read the rules, just did a quick search for "universal" within their T&C). Maybe you should check them out if you haven't. I think that Betsafe is a better casino alternative than for example Betsson (btw, Betsafe has just added "Gladiator" in the casino black section :D).

    Let us hope that the rep will clarify a few things here. I have sent him a heads up.
     
  16. Aug 13, 2012
  17. Betsson-Group

    Betsson-Group Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Betsson Group
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi guys,

    Thank you for highlighting this.

    Personally we would like to provide this game for everyone but the reason for us having this in our terms and conditions is, as some of you already have pointed out, because of licensing and distribution agreement between Universal Pictures and our game provider Net Entertainment.


    I agree with Jasminebed that it is sloppy of us not having the countries an alphabetical order, this will be changed.
    Thanks a lot for the feedback. If any of you guys see any inconsistencies or anything that is unclear please make us aware of this so we can get better with the information and service to you.

    At the moment this is the only game that is restricted to certain countries, if and when we add more games with restrictions we will make sure to list it in the best possible way (bear in mind that different game providers or trademarks can have different rules).

    To mattsgame: Just want to clarify that this term is not tied to any bonus, only for countries.

    I hope this clears things out, if you still have any questions just ask!

    Regards,
    Patryk
     
  18. Aug 13, 2012
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is really not good enough. You can't expect players to know about the illogical machinations of licensing agreements. If the game is shown in the lobby, launches, and bets are placed, players should be confident that there is no problem playing, especially when they don't take bonuses in order to stay free of such restrictions.

    In fact, your licensing agreements are broken as soon as such a player is able to open the game and place bets - voiding wins after the fact does NOT get you off the hook with Universal.

    You should fire your lazy progammers, and get some prepared to enforce this through coding geolocation into the portal such that these games are not presented to players where they are not supposed to be playing them. This is how everybody else does it.

    I can't see any media company agreeing to such after the fact policing of it's licensing. If you look at streaming sites where content is only licensed to certain countries, you will find a restricted country blocked from the outset. Allowing them to watch the content, and then putting up "sorry, you are from a restricted country, please wipe your memory of everything you have just seen" would not cut it.

    The free play part of that term is simply laughable - there are no "potential winnings" to void, and so your licensing agreement can be freely violated by players in restricted countries playing in "fun mode" for as long as they like.

    This harebrained arrangement for multi platform portals will give the whole concept a bad name among players, who will only see winnings being voided seemingly at random based on where they live.

    It is even worse, because the rules and restrictions for the same games seem to vary from one platform to another, and players will have no confidence in where they stand, and will begin to avoid such portals in favour of single provider platforms where it is a simple matter of being able to play everything or nothing.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Aug 13, 2012
  21. Redbet-Andy

    Redbet-Andy Dormant account - New account: AndyB-MrGreen

    Occupation:
    Casino and marketing
    Location:
    Malta
    That list of countries looks a lot like "Europe" to me, am I missing anything eagle eyed readers?

     
  22. Aug 13, 2012
  23. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    At a glance, I don't see France
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Aug 13, 2012
  25. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -

    France is on Betsson's general list of prohibited countries, so players from France can not open an account in the first place according to their T&C. Probably also why they have not mentioned France on the Frankenstein list.

    On the other hand. Italy is mentioned on the Frankenstein list, but is also on their general list of prohibited countries, so who knows :)
     
  26. Aug 13, 2012
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    There are a whole load of countries allowed to play these games, yet they are the countries usually banned from opening an account. Players from the old Soviet states are often banned, yet they are allowed to play these games.

    This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, yet the casino expects players to police themselves even though the game is in their lobby, fully functional, with no indication at point of use that they might not be allowed to play it. It's not even that they are not allowed to play, they are not allowed to WIN. This licensing agreement seems to permit them to LOSE money on the game.

    This illogical situation could change overnight, catching out those who thought they understood this rule, and how it applied to them.

    This is the wrong path for the industry to take, they need to negotiate common sense licencing agreements, or tell these studios to shove it up their *** and develop the slot with an alternative theme. A branded slot is not going to help attract players once stories start emerging about winnings being confiscated on a near random basis because of secretive licensing deals. I would rather play a generic themed slot and know I will get paid, rather than play a branded game and have to worry whether I have understood the current licensing agreements between studio and operator.

    Microgaming didn't seem to encounter this problem when negotiating branding deals, they either had the slot in the lobby, or they didn't. If you could see it, you could play it. Even LOTR hasn't really gone, it's just been reskinned for the current licensing deal for Batman.
     

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