Is Phoenician Casino Just Another RTG Scammer

[kniepm]

After reading how Phoenician Casino had treated the Pirate decently, I decided to give them a try. I clicked through to the casino through the latest Got2Bet newsletter and downloaded the software.

I made my first deposit of $500 and received a $250 "sticky" bonus. After exceeding the wagering requirements, my balance was at $592. I requested a withdrawal of $342 which would leave the $250 bonus in my account. I returned to blackjack tables and was able to bring my balance up too $360. I requested another withdrawal of $110, which would leave the $250 bonus in my account. I returned to the blackjack table again and this time lost the entire $250 remaining in my account.

After I had finished playing, I went to check my NETeller status and saw that they had only processed $92 back to my NETeller acccount. (A very speedy withdrawal but $360 short of the mark.)

I have since been engaged in an extensive exchange of e-mails with customer support and casino management. They have told me I should have requested withdrawals of $592 and $360 and their system would have then automatically reduced each withdrawal request by the $250 non-withdrawable bonus. (I am not able to see this explained on their web site. In fact, this is a "situation" they have told me they are looking into fixing. A fat lot of good that does me.)

After each withdrawal, the cashier interface and account balance window at the blackjack table reflected the full amount of the withdrawal requests as being taken from my balance.

My e-mails to the casino have asked that they release the money remaining in my account for withdrawal. Their responses have all explained how their system automatically deducts the bonus amount from withdrawal requests. No one seems to be willing to look at this case and see that I made withdrawal requests that would keep the bonus amount in my account.

As of now, their position is that they have processed withdrawals of $202 (of my $452 requested withdrawals) and the $250 is in my casino account as a "sticky bonus" which I can play with, withdraw any winnings, but not withdraw the $250. My position is that I have met their wagering requirements and, due to problems with their system, have been unable to withdraw $250 that should now be in my NETeller account.

I have put in a "pitch a bitch" and have sent yet another e-mail to the casino manager hoping that they can see a fair resolution to this matter. I'm still holding out hope that this might see a fair resolution but it sure seems like I'm going through a lot of BS because of what is either a software problem or a poorly explained withdrawal procedure.

Now I remember why I quit playing new casinos and claiming bonuses.

 

[spearmaster]

Considering you only signed up two days ago, I think you are moving a bit quickly. You haven't given me a chance to figure out what is going on - and you're already posting in here about how bad things are.

Would you mind giving a little more time to get to the bottom of this before bothering Bryan with a pitch a bitch and posting about what appears to be more of a misunderstanding than anything else?

 

[blazinghussy]

I have since been engaged in an extensive exchange of e-mails with customer support and casino management. They have told me I should have requested withdrawals of $592 and $360 and their system would have then automatically reduced each withdrawal request by the $250 non-withdrawable bonus. (I am not able to see this explained on their web site. In fact, this is a "situation" they have told me they are looking into fixing. A fat lot of good that does me.)

I made a similar mistake at another casino. I left the sticky bonus in my account because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. Turns out not to be the case. I screwed up, I ate my mistake, as I should have, learned from it and then moved on.

Phoenician is a very good, very honest, very fair casino. I've had zero problems with them and I've been playing there for several months as have many others I know.

I'm sorry you misunderstood but why is that the casino's problem? It's always the player's responsibility to be crystal clear on the T&Cs. Good lord, if we relied on the casinos to baby-sit us we'd all be screwed. Suck it up and move on, lesson learned, never to be repeated.

 

[sirius]

I would like to know if anyone promoting this group knows much about the management behind them. The information they gave me a while ago all seemed a bit vague. Forty Plus said exactly the same thing about having management with experience in land based casinos but again the information was very vague too. Phoenician launched just after Forty Plus failed and now webmasters promote them immediately due to their lucrative affiliate deals.

This casino is still very new and I think they are overspending on marketing. They told me the Microgaming fees were 'ridiculous' and they would rather spend the money on marketing but at least with Microgaming their reputation would not be tarnished by all the bad RTG casinos.

 

[kniepm]

...I screwed up, I ate my mistake, as I should have, learned from it and then moved on.

...Phoenician is a very good, very honest, very fair casino.

...I'm sorry you misunderstood but why is that the casino's problem? It's always the player's responsibility to be crystal clear on the T&Cs.

If you feel you should eat your losses in your instance, that's something you have to deal with in you own life. I don't take kindly to folks trying to take from me. I'll give them an opportunity to win my money but I won't sit quietly by when they take it from me otherwise.

How is the player supposed to be crystal clear on terms that aren't in the T&C's. The T&C's state the bonus money cannot be withdrawn. So I didn't. They don't say, go ahead and request a withdrawal of funds that you know can't be withdrawn and we'll change the withdrawal amount. I was not unclear, I was simply following the T&C's as written. "Oh, I can't withdraw the bonus, I guess I can only withdraw the amount in my account above the bonus." That's what I did. A very good, very fair casino would see that I followed their T&C's written and free up my funds.

 

[kniepm]

Considering you only signed up two days ago, I think you are moving a bit quickly. You haven't given me a chance to figure out what is going on - and you're already posting in here about how bad things are.

Would you mind giving a little more time to get to the bottom of this before bothering Bryan with a pitch a bitch and posting about what appears to be more of a misunderstanding than anything else?

True, only two days ago. Long enough to exchange over twenty e-mails with support and management, explain the situation twice in at least greater detail than I have here, and be told several times (1) this is a system problem they are trying to work around and (2) the bonus amount cannot be withdrawn.

Seems to me like I have the casinos position already and it doesn't include releasing my funds. It doesn't seem to me that anything is taking place to change their position. Until I hear a change is being considered, I'll make noise.

 

[cipher]

I would like to know if anyone promoting this group knows much about the management behind them. The information they gave me a while ago all seemed a bit vague. Forty Plus said exactly the same thing about having management with experience in land based casinos but again the information was very vague too. Phoenician launched just after Forty Plus failed and now webmasters promote them immediately due to their lucrative affiliate deals.

This casino is still very new and I think they are overspending on marketing. They told me the Microgaming fees were 'ridiculous' and they would rather spend the money on marketing but at least with Microgaming their reputation would not be tarnished by all the bad RTG casinos.

Hi Sirius,

As I've stated before, the main person behind the Phoenician is a guy by the name of Dean Michaels and you're simply not going to find a more professional person to deal with at any level. And yes Sirius the Phoenician (Dean Michaels) is spending a great deal of money in developing the Phoenician and as a result they are enjoying an 8 to 1 profit ratio over any other RTG Licensee, so I'd say that Deans investment is paying off rather nicely. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[spearmaster]

True, only two days ago. Long enough to exchange over twenty e-mails with support and management, explain the situation twice in at least greater detail than I have here, and be told several times (1) this is a system problem they are trying to work around and (2) the bonus amount cannot be withdrawn.

Seems to me like I have the casinos position already and it doesn't include releasing my funds. It doesn't seem to me that anything is taking place to change their position. Until I hear a change is being considered, I'll make noise.

I am fully aware of the "system" problem - it is the same problem which allows them to make instant payouts.

Normally, people with an issue exhaust normal channels of communication before they take anything to the boards. In my case, I got one copy of an email, which was then immediately forwarded to management, who then responded quite rapidly to the player (even though support wasn't exactly slow that I know of) - and obviously there is still some miscommunication.

If I am to help you, and of course I am most willing to, you MUST allow me an opportunity to try and get to the bottom of the issue. That also means keeping complaints off the forums until a reasonable amount of time has passed. My assistance is always free to players who sign up through Got2Bet but obviously it is impossible to get results instantly.

My instinct says you will get what is due to you - but please, please allow me a little time to sort things out - otherwise there is simply no point in me interfering.

 

[dominique]

True, only two days ago. Long enough to exchange over twenty e-mails with support and management, explain the situation twice in at least greater detail than I have here, and be told several times (1) this is a system problem they are trying to work around and (2) the bonus amount cannot be withdrawn

Kniepm, you were smart enough to pick a webmaster who will take care of you and help you.

Two days are nothing, and you will get little response from anyone on a weekend - note that got2bet is here even though.

There is no doubt in anyones mind that he will do well by you - he has a track record.

Now if you are going to be smart enough to go through a site that stands behind it's players, please also be considerate enough not to cause the person who is helping you public embarrassment and hassle.

 

[kniepm]

After a frustrating day of exchanging e-mails with Phoenician Casino's support team yesterday, casino manager Dean Michaels took a personal interest in my situation. Mr. Michaels was very professional and, after exchaning a couple e-mails, he has offered to release the disputed money to me for withhdrawal. Thanks to Phoenician's instant NETeller withdrawals, the money is already in my NETeller account.

Mr. Michaels has convinced me that my problem was one of miscommunication and, based on his willingness to rectify the situation, was definitely NOT an attempt to rip off a player.

So Casinomeister and Spearmaster, I apologize if I jumped the gun in bringing my problem to the forum so quickly. Phoenician Casino has brought this matter to a satisfactory resolution without the need for any outside intervention.

Based on the way I have been treated by Mr. Michaels, I will be depositing and playing at the Phoenician in the near future. (Unless he locks my account for being a pain the arse.)

Again, thank you to Dean Michaels and kudos on your commitment to keeping players happy

 

[jetset]

Glad to hear you've been sorted out. This guy Dean Michaels has certainly been coming to notice in a very positive way lately.

 

[Black21Jack]

I would put Phoenician Casino as the best casino on the internet based on my experience with them and the experience of my friends who also play there. I know how most of the problems of online casinos can be solved or avoided altogether, Don't collect a bonus. Pretty simple eh? After reading all the horror stories on the internet about online casinos I would say about 90% of complaints involve the player claiming a bonus. I will say honestly that if I hadnt read all these stories then I probably would claim bonuses, but because that is all the problems you read about I don't. Why on earth would you want to lock your money up with this free money that has so many stipulations and rules? I have made way more money playing with my own deposit than I would have by claiming bonuses, and I avoided all the headache and stress that comes along with worrying about withdrawing money before wager requirements are met. You should not have to worry or be scared about making withdrawals it's your money. I will say I have had one bad experience with an online casino shutting my account and that was simply because they said I was too good a Blackjack player and they want to get me paid off before opening my account. I claimed no bonus with them, and I am happy to say that this particular RTG casino is paying me off, slowly but shurley. I know I have ranted, so I will get back to the topic at hand that being Phoenician are scammers. When you put money in with no bonus and play there you can withdraw up to $2500.00 a day to your Neteller account with no approval of any manager or anything. It will be in your account 5 minutes later as long as you send them your fax back form, and ID. I always send this info the minute I open my accounts, even before playing and I include a copy of my birth certificate, and utility bill even though it is not needed I don't want any problems. So no I do not think they are scammers, I have withdrawn my intital deposit amounts 10 fold, and so have a lot of my friends. Just my 2 cents worth.

Peace.

 

[thesmacker]

With the great services that Phoenician offer, Instant Withdraws, bonuses that have no game restrictions, its hard not to think that they are among the industry leaders. Makes you wonder why other big casinos such as Casino On Net make you wait 5 days for a withdraw. Hopefully Phoenician will continue to flourish and make some of their policies the norm for all online casinos. Kudos to Phoenician.
Cheers

 

[Black21Jack]

With the great services that Phoenician offer, Instant Withdraws, bonuses that have no game restrictions, its hard not to think that they are among the industry leaders. Makes you wonder why other big casinos such as Casino On Net make you wait 5 days for a withdraw. Hopefully Phoenician will continue to flourish and make some of their policies the norm for all online casinos. Kudos to Phoenician.
Cheers

I agree. They are the leaders. If other casinos want to compete they need to offer the instant withdrawal. 5 and 7 day wait periods are absolutely rediculous when it takes a casino two seconds to remove your money from your Neteller account. I know I won't play any other casino now for that reason. If Phoenician keeps it up they have a loyal gamer for life. like many people say they have not been around for long, and I have read stories about casinos that are great in the beginning and then go down hill. Only time will tell with Phoenician but as of right now they are doing great.

Peace.

 

[xkxrome0ox]

I will say I have had one bad experience with an online casino shutting my account and that was simply because they said I was too good a Blackjack player and they want to get me paid off before opening my account. I claimed no bonus with them, and I am happy to say that this particular RTG casino is paying me off, slowly but shurley.
Peace.

wow.. how much did you win that a casino has to take its time to pay you??

i wish i could be in your situation... instead of owing $22,000 to my credit card companies for my online gambling addiction

 

[Black21Jack]

wow.. how much did you win that a casino has to take its time to pay you??

i wish i could be in your situation... instead of owing $22,000 to my credit card companies for my online gambling addiction

I have won quite a bit but that is not the reason they take long. A friend of mine has to wait atleast 5 days for cashouts ranging from $100.00 - $500.00 I strictly play RTG and most of their casinos withdrawal policies is 5 - 7 business days. A couple, InetBet and Sunset Palace are pretty good and you will see your money in about 2 days for withdrawals of about $1000.00 - $1500.00 I have to note that this is just my experiences and other people may have been paid quicker or longer. My point is that any wait period is rediculous, I think that as long as you have not claimed a bonus it should be instant. If you claimed a bonus then maybe a day or two wait is ok for the casino manager to make sure that requirements are met but I avoid that by never claiming a bonus.

Peace.

 

[LRDell]

Some clarification, Maybe?

Based on all the good things I have read about Phoenician, I have downloaded their software and attempted to deposit (I can't have Netteller in my state and they don't have Firepay or Citadel). I called to talk to them about ther bonus structure because I wanted to be crystal clear before I jumped in.

I spoke with a customer service rep and I still didn't get a clear example of how the bonus works. Can one of you people who have played there (or recently jumped in and learned their bonus system inside and out) give a couple of simple examples of how the bonus and withdrawals work?

 

[pokeraddict]

Well after all this talk I had to check out this place. Even did it through the link from spearmasters page. I am getting back into playing BJ online again. I love RTG software, double anything, split forever, always checks for BJ. Had a huge hit. We'll see how fast I get paid since it appears I might get the "we need ID" nag cause of the large win. Thx for pointing me towards them all.

 

[pokeraddict]

A good experience gone bad. Got up a bunch, cashed out $2500 and had more. Went to Kinkos to fax documents, i sent phone bill, insurance bill and drivers license. They wanted me to send another ID because my license recently expired. I didnt even notice. What crap. Like its not me cause the license expired? The police in a dui roadblock didnt notice. People who sell me beer didnt notice but the online casino that owed me thousands did.

I should have uninstalled this and dealt with it later when i wasnt pissed but i didnt. The blackjack dealer of course went on a run from hell, the software malfunctioned in a lag and hit a 19. The CSR rep saw this on logs but said he would transfer it to the people above but could do nothing about it. BLAH!

Lesson learned after throwing thousands away pissed off at their attempt to prolong paying me..........
UNINSTALL THE SOFTWARE IMMEDIATELY AT CASHOUT!!!!

I know this would have worked out and they would have paid me eventually after more hassle but they got what they wanted, the ability to not pay me at all. I just want to know thier excuse for not refunding me my bet when the software malfuntioned. I've played in 5+ casinos that ask me if im sure when i hit or double a soft 18 so why would the software auto hit me on 19 and why no refund when it is agreed that it showed in the logs?

 

[jpm]

They are not alone in not accepting expired ID though. You will run into this at other places as well. I did at a couple of places this year, since the scanned license I keep on my hard drive expired last year. A couple of places said it was no good because of the expiration date and insisted on the current one. And I had even played at other casinos in their group as I recall. This was at a Playtech group btw, not RTG, so you'll see this is not uncommon (though it is silly).

 

[pokeraddict]

The whole ID thing is 100% silly if you are withdrawing it same way it was deposited. What risk did the casino have doing this? NONE! I cant charge back my prepaidatm deposit if I've withdrawn it. It's just a way to prolong your cashout so you get itchy or pissed like I did. No big deal I lost the money I won at Lucky Nugget (who withdrew $1400 no hassle) and I think my lesson is only play poker. PERIOD Only one of the poker rooms has ever asked me for ID, it was Golden Palace and its only because they were rogue. Even bigbet paid me out over $10,000 never asking for ID.

I just dont have the discipline to jump through all the hoops they make you.

 

[jpm]

Unfortunately, I think as time goes on it will get more and more silly. Why an online casino that never has seen you in person needs a photo ID has always been a mystery to me. I can understand if you'd made a deposit using a credit card, because the cc company requires 'positive ID' from the merchant, but things like neteller & prepaid, etc don't have that regulation as far as I know. Might as well grin and bear it, at some point another place will ask you for it and you'll have to provide it or they won't pay you.

I tried arguing the point probably 18+ months ago with a casino that I'd played at for at least a year or so prior to that. They insisted that they needed this positive ID for all their players, since they were doing a security review. I went back and forth with the manager and head of security to no avail. Bottom line, they said I can refuse to provide them with the ID, but they would just put the funds back into my casino account and let them stay there until I complied. They explained the part I mentioned earlier about the cc companies, etc. for being the reason as well as the huge amount of player fraud (which we all know is MUCH worse now). I finally realised it was a battle I was not going to win and just sent it. Now I keep a scanned copy on my computer ready to send when (as opposed to if) it is requested. Its easier than trying to fight them on it.

 

[Black21Jack]

A good experience gone bad. Got up a bunch, cashed out $2500 and had more. Went to Kinkos to fax documents, i sent phone bill, insurance bill and drivers license. They wanted me to send another ID because my license recently expired. I didnt even notice. What crap. Like its not me cause the license expired? The police in a dui roadblock didnt notice. People who sell me beer didnt notice but the online casino that owed me thousands did.

I should have uninstalled this and dealt with it later when i wasnt pissed but i didnt. The blackjack dealer of course went on a run from hell, the software malfunctioned in a lag and hit a 19. The CSR rep saw this on logs but said he would transfer it to the people above but could do nothing about it. BLAH!

Lesson learned after throwing thousands away pissed off at their attempt to prolong paying me..........
UNINSTALL THE SOFTWARE IMMEDIATELY AT CASHOUT!!!!

I know this would have worked out and they would have paid me eventually after more hassle but they got what they wanted, the ability to not pay me at all. I just want to know thier excuse for not refunding me my bet when the software malfuntioned. I've played in 5+ casinos that ask me if im sure when i hit or double a soft 18 so why would the software auto hit me on 19 and why no refund when it is agreed that it showed in the logs?

Are you referring to Phoenician Casino here? It is your fault for continuing to play and not getting it sorted out. Is it a bitch to have to send in fax back documents? Yes, but it is not such a big deal. How hard is it to put paper into a fax machine. I have had to resend five times because of too dark licence copy, so I just kept making copies until it suited them. Don't forget they have you by the short 'n curlies as it clearly states on their banking web page that they need to have a legible faxback as well as Id to make a withdrawal. Just suck it up and keep submitting until they have what they need. You only have to get it right once and then never have to do it again. I have had no problems with them and once the FBF are taken care of it's smooth sailing. Their customer support is friendly and gets back to every inquiry made.

 

[LRDell]

just email it

I have found that most places that require the documentation will let you scan and email it as an attachment.

Certainly makes it simple - no Kinkos and fax fees if you don't have a fax.

 

[pokeraddict]

It is my own fault for continuing to play, I admit that in my post. I think the whole ID part is BS. It is just an attempt to get people to do what I did. The support answered all emails quickly except for why the software hit my 19 when I hit stand, in this case after a lengthy delay all they sent was "I have forwarded this to our management" If I am withdrawing the same way I deposited then the ID thing makes no sense. Its just a delay tactic. It would be different if I deposited my credit card and wanted it another way.