Question Is it legal to change turnover requirement after deposit is made?

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
Ever since the new Swedish gambling law, I've been using the governments site of licensed gambling sites and sort of neglected doing research because I figure that shady gambling sites would stay away from Swedish licensed due to the announced strengthened customer rights.

I signed up with bwin under the conditions that I would have to wager my deposit+bonus 3 times, the conditions are still up on the registration page as long as you're logged off:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


However, after you make a deposit and look in your bonuses, you suddenly have to wager deposit+bonus 5 times to release it. Until then, all funds are locked.

On the above welcome offer page, it also says NOTHING about a max bet or additional conditions. I know a predatory trick is to write a long list of bonus offers and then end it with "additional terms and conditions apply" or something like that, and then hide a bunch of land mines in page 14 of general terms and conditions. But there is no reference to additional rules in the bonus conditions. I follow the rules religiously and now after I made a bet for more than €50, I get an email they sent me with additional general rules that state the max bet is ~€50. I've played on betting sites that limit your bets manually if you win a lot and that's fine, but I've never heard of a betting site that that lets you make €55 bets to then have an excuse to confiscate your winnings. But that's not where I'm going with this. Here is a translated bit from the new Swedish Gambling Inspectorate:

5. Bonus offers

A player who is offered a bonus shall clearly and thoroughly be informed about the terms and rules that apply to the offer, in connection with the offer being made, and when it is used by the player.

Neither of these conditions are met here. I was not informed nor linked to the other rules anywhere, neither when I accepted the offer, nor when I check the bonus interface. I have, like I said, religiously followed the terms and conditions that are listed under the bonus.


I want to make it clear that I have not made a withdraw yet (I obviously can't, seeing as they're keeping my money locked despite me having fulfilled all of the bonus terms). I'm continuously contacting their customer support. Their live chat confirms that I am correct but that they can't help me because this is an issue for the promotions department, and when I email them I have to wait 24 hours to get replies. The thing that has me worried is when you google them, the first thing that pops up is their trustpilot, which is pretty much a sea of 1-star reviews of players who are refused withdrawals. And I can't think of any other reason to have the most significant rule of the entire offer hidden away on a different page on the website, without any links or reference to that page or those rules anywhere in the bonus conditions.

So my questions are: Has anybody else had the first thing happen to them? Where you get an offer of X times turnover and as soon as you make the deposit and your money is locked, they vastly increase the turnover requirement (while still baiting other new players with the false promise of a lower turnover requirement)? If so, what were you able to do about it?

Secondly to Swedish players: Do any of you know where you take actions against fraudulent casinos who break the law? I can't find anything on spelinspektionens website.

Thanks.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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Sweden
Wow, you seem to have played before. It's not the first time you sign up to a casino and use the welcome bonus.
Still you believe that you don't need to read the general rules? How come?..

It feels like even those who have played on English sites and learned how it all works still are getting caught.
Max bet of €50 is higher than I ever heard of, and wagering of 5x d+b is the lowest wagering I've heard about.

I know Bwin have a Swedish license but I don't know much about them. Maybe someone else do...

Edit: Is it a sportbonus?
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
Wow, you seem to have played before. It's not the first time you sign up to a casino and use the welcome bonus.
Still you believe that you don't need to read the general rules? How come?..

It feels like even those who have played on English sites and learned how it all works still are getting caught.
Max bet of €50 is higher than I ever heard of, and wagering of 5x d+b is the lowest wagering I've heard about.

I know Bwin have a Swedish license but I don't know much about them. Maybe someone else do...

Edit: Is it a sportbonus?
If it says within the bonus conditions that there are additional bonus conditions somewhere, I'll click the link and read them. Never had any issues with that until now.

And yes, it is a sportsbonus, should have probably clarified that sorry.
 

Tirilej

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It didn't take more than a few minutes for me who never have used a sports bonus to find out that max bet for bonus is 500sek and you need to play it through 5x d+b.
9.4 I och med vår nolltolerans-policy för bonusmissbruk som beskrivs ovan, gäller en maxinsats på 50 kronor per omgång inom slots och 500 kronor per omgång inom alla andra behöriga spel för bonusbeloppen och de aktiverande inbetalningarna. Spelare som missbrukar våra maximala insatsgränser, får sin kompletta bonussumma struken. Även eventuella bonusbelopp eller vinster som hänger ihop med bonusen tas bort.

Maybe you could make a deal with them to start all over again otherwise I doubt you have any chance at all. Sorry, maybe someone else have any other thoughts but that is what I believe.
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
It didn't take more than a few minutes for me who never have used a sports bonus to find out that max bet for bonus is 500sek and you need to play it through 5x d+b.
9.4 I och med vår nolltolerans-policy för bonusmissbruk som beskrivs ovan, gäller en maxinsats på 50 kronor per omgång inom slots och 500 kronor per omgång inom alla andra behöriga spel för bonusbeloppen och de aktiverande inbetalningarna. Spelare som missbrukar våra maximala insatsgränser, får sin kompletta bonussumma struken. Även eventuella bonusbelopp eller vinster som hänger ihop med bonusen tas bort.

Maybe you could make a deal with them to start all over again otherwise I doubt you have any chance at all. Sorry, maybe someone else have any other thoughts but that is what I believe.
Yeah I know, that wasn't the point at all. It seems like you didn't finish reading my original post at all (which is fine, it was long). The point was that these additional conditions are nowhere in the actual bonus conditions during sign-up or in the bonus interface. According to the new Swedish gambling law, it has to be in both. So they're breaking Swedish law if they enforce them.
 

Tirilej

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Yeah I know, that wasn't the point at all. It seems like you didn't finish reading my original post at all (which is fine, it was long). The point was that these additional conditions are nowhere in the actual bonus conditions during sign-up or in the bonus interface. According to the new Swedish gambling law, it has to be in both. So they're breaking Swedish law if they enforce them.
Did you know that already before you signed up and took that bonus? I have read and heard a lot about the Swedish license but that I haven't heard of...yet.
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
Did you know that already before you signed up and took that bonus? I have read and heard a lot about the Swedish license but that I haven't heard of...yet.
No, of course not; if I knew about it I would've not gone over the limit. I found that out in an email they sent me (like I said in the original post). I also referenced the law in the original post, here's the original Swedish version:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


5. Bonuserbjudanden
En spelare som erbjuds en bonus ska på ett klart och tydligt sätt informeras om de villkor och regler som gäller för erbjudandet, i samband med att erbjudandet lämnas, och när det utnyttjas av spelaren.

Det står inget om ytterligare villkor i samband med att erbjudandet lämnas, eller när det utnyttjas. Det länkas ingenstans i samband med erbjudandet, kunden måste på egen hand hitta dem på bwin.

Maybe you could make a PAB here. I have no idea either where you should turn otherwise so you might as well try :)
Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures
Thanks for the advice but I'm going to give bwin a chance to follow the law and do right, even if it takes them 24 hours to answer each email. Not in a hurry to get the money anyway.
 

Tirilej

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No, of course not; if I knew about it I would've not gone over the limit. I found that out in an email they sent me (like I said in the original post). I also referenced the law in the original post, here's the original Swedish version:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


5. Bonuserbjudanden
En spelare som erbjuds en bonus ska på ett klart och tydligt sätt informeras om de villkor och regler som gäller för erbjudandet, i samband med att erbjudandet lämnas, och när det utnyttjas av spelaren.

Det står inget om ytterligare villkor i samband med att erbjudandet lämnas, eller när det utnyttjas. Det länkas ingenstans i samband med erbjudandet, kunden måste på egen hand hitta dem på bwin.



Thanks for the advice but I'm going to give bwin a chance to follow the law and do right, even if it takes them 24 hours to answer each email. Not in a hurry to get the money anyway.
No I meant if you knew already before you signed up to Bwin that the Swedish regulations are asking that of them? I did read you post.

You should be aware of the fact that the Swedish gambling law does not say that there is no need to read the casinos rules though, and they have a lot of them. I doubt any casino can be totally clear with every single rule in their offers.
I didn't want to register so I have no idea what the whole offer say though but as a new customer you need to read the fine print.

Good luck and I do hope you can solve it :)
If I sound a bit tough here it's because there already are Swedes who try to get around the rules and find loopholes to get paid no matter what they do. It will also take some time before all casinos have everything up that they should have. Always ask if you're not sure about everything.
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
No I meant if you knew already before you signed up to Bwin that the Swedish regulations are asking that of them? I did read you post.

You should be aware of the fact that the Swedish gambling law does not say that there is no need to read the casinos rules though, and they have a lot of them. I doubt any casino can be totally clear with every single rule in their offers.
I didn't want to register so I have no idea what the whole offer say though but as a new customer you need to read the fine print.

Good luck and I do hope you can solve it :)
If I sound a bit tough here it's because there already are Swedes who try to get around the rules and find loopholes to get paid no matter what they do. It will also take some time before all casinos have everything up that they should have. Always ask if you're not sure about everything.
Yes, I was. But I genuinely have never seen a site before that has hidden bonus conditions, have you? I will emphasize; I know that it's a common predatory trick to hide rules, but they're always linked to with "General Bonus Conditions Apply" or something like that.

And I'm obviously not trying to loop-hole anything. I hardly see it as an advantage to place one bet slightly over the limit, I could just as well have lost it all (was an extremely close hockey game that went to penalties) so it could have gone both ways. It was also a live bet so I could've just split the bet into 2 if I knew about the rules. If they want people to bet under €50, then put that insanely relevant condition in the bonus terms or at least link to the bonus terms where the rule is. It's not that hard to follow the law, they're doing this intentionally to trap people and confiscate their money. Seriously, just look at this:
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And this is over a sample size of 112 reviews!!! I dare you to find a worse rated casino anywhere online. Even the blacklisted casinos that I had to use while living in the US a couple of years ago don't have reviews this bad.

Also, in all this discussion, we're not even talking about the fact that their bonus conditions say 3x d+b turnover and as soon as you make the deposit, they change it to 5x d+b (but as soon as you log out and look at the offer again, it still says 3x d+b in order to bait other new players). What do you think about that?
 

Tirilej

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...and I have never read any rules at a casino that did not have some of the bonus rules in the general rules. I've read a lot of rules.
I can hear you do not trust many casinos at all so there is not much point that I'm saying anything:p Just that Trustpilot is not a place I would look twice. Don't trust it or the people who writes the reviews.

As I said when it comes to what their rules say about the bonus offer I can't see any without register. They should of course be the same since they are only allowed to offer one bonus per each customer. What I can say though is that it sounds strange if they should try and trick every single Swedish player. Something must have gone wrong here.
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
...and I have never read any rules at a casino that did not have some of the bonus rules in the general rules. I've read a lot of rules.
I can hear you do not trust many casinos at all so there is not much point that I'm saying anything:p Just that Trustpilot is not a place I would look twice. Don't trust it or the people who writes the reviews.

As I said when it comes to what their rules say about the bonus offer I can't see any without register. They should of course be the same since they are only allowed to offer one bonus per each customer. What I can say though is that it sounds strange if they should try and trick every single Swedish player. Something must have gone wrong here.
Sure, but as I keep telling you, those casinos will have links to the additional bonus rules within the main bonus rules. That's all i was trying to say.

Here is the link to the bonus registration page:
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Click on "Villkor och avtal":

  • Villkoren har uppfyllts när du satsat bonusbeloppet och insatt belopp 3 gånger.
Then as soon as you make a deposit, they switch it to 5x and your money is now locked. Again though, I'm still trying to get it solved with the support but based on others' complaints (and the fact that even CasinoMeister placed them in the Rogue Pit), I'm not too optimistic.
 

Tirilej

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Sorry but there is no Villkor och avtal in that link. I can't read it:D

Could you maybe have signed up through a bad affiliate? When I click on Register I get in to the page but all I can see is the 100% bonus up to 250 sek, nothing else.

Ok, if they are in the Pit here you can't do a PAB anyway so you need to find somewhere else. I really hope you can solve it with them directly.

Next time you chose a new casino please read reviews before you sign up. Just because they have a Swedish license does not make them a good place to play. There are some I would never touch in there.
 

Steviedoo

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Ever since the new Swedish gambling law, I've been using the governments site of licensed gambling sites and sort of neglected doing research because I figure that shady gambling sites would stay away from Swedish licensed due to the announced strengthened customer rights.

I signed up with bwin under the conditions that I would have to wager my deposit+bonus 3 times, the conditions are still up on the registration page as long as you're logged off:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


However, after you make a deposit and look in your bonuses, you suddenly have to wager deposit+bonus 5 times to release it. Until then, all funds are locked.

On the above welcome offer page, it also says NOTHING about a max bet or additional conditions. I know a predatory trick is to write a long list of bonus offers and then end it with "additional terms and conditions apply" or something like that, and then hide a bunch of land mines in page 14 of general terms and conditions. But there is no reference to additional rules in the bonus conditions. I follow the rules religiously and now after I made a bet for more than €50, I get an email they sent me with additional general rules that state the max bet is ~€50. I've played on betting sites that limit your bets manually if you win a lot and that's fine, but I've never heard of a betting site that that lets you make €55 bets to then have an excuse to confiscate your winnings. But that's not where I'm going with this. Here is a translated bit from the new Swedish Gambling Inspectorate:

5. Bonus offers

A player who is offered a bonus shall clearly and thoroughly be informed about the terms and rules that apply to the offer, in connection with the offer being made, and when it is used by the player.

Neither of these conditions are met here. I was not informed nor linked to the other rules anywhere, neither when I accepted the offer, nor when I check the bonus interface. I have, like I said, religiously followed the terms and conditions that are listed under the bonus.


I want to make it clear that I have not made a withdraw yet (I obviously can't, seeing as they're keeping my money locked despite me having fulfilled all of the bonus terms). I'm continuously contacting their customer support. Their live chat confirms that I am correct but that they can't help me because this is an issue for the promotions department, and when I email them I have to wait 24 hours to get replies. The thing that has me worried is when you google them, the first thing that pops up is their trustpilot, which is pretty much a sea of 1-star reviews of players who are refused withdrawals. And I can't think of any other reason to have the most significant rule of the entire offer hidden away on a different page on the website, without any links or reference to that page or those rules anywhere in the bonus conditions.

So my questions are: Has anybody else had the first thing happen to them? Where you get an offer of X times turnover and as soon as you make the deposit and your money is locked, they vastly increase the turnover requirement (while still baiting other new players with the false promise of a lower turnover requirement)? If so, what were you able to do about it?

Secondly to Swedish players: Do any of you know where you take actions against fraudulent casinos who break the law? I can't find anything on spelinspektionens website.

Thanks.

Well of course it’s not legal to change the terms afterwards.

They are listed here on CM in the grey zone.

Did you win a lot of money?

If it is...worth doing a PAB and maybe It will help.
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
Sorry but there is no Villkor och avtal in that link. I can't read it:D

Could you maybe have signed up through a bad affiliate? When I click on Register I get in to the page but all I can see is the 100% bonus up to 250 sek, nothing else.

Ok, if they are in the Pit here you can't do a PAB anyway so you need to find somewhere else. I really hope you can solve it with them directly.

Next time you chose a new casino please read reviews before you sign up. Just because they have a Swedish license does not make them a good place to play. There are some I would never touch in there.
Well I linked it to their live chat and she said that I was correct but that this was an issue for the promotion department. The "Villkor och Avtal" button is in the right part of the screen, perhaps you're missing it. And it's bwin's official website.

Here's a screen shot of it:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

Tirilej

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Well of course it’s not legal to change the terms afterwards.

They are listed here on CM in the grey zone.

Did you win a lot of money?

If it is...worth doing a PAB and maybe It will help.
He said they were in the rogue pit, but you found them in the grey zone?
Is anyone sure of where they are?
 

xexe

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Sweden
Well of course it’s not legal to change the terms afterwards.

They are listed here on CM in the grey zone.

Did you win a lot of money?

If it is...worth doing a PAB and maybe It will help.
Thanks for the advice, going to give them a bit more time to reply first, it's only been a couple of days.

And no, I didn't win a lot of money. I put in 25 euro, made that into ~€200.
 

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