is it all about skill or luck?

kingo'mountain

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Location
israel
hello to all the mighty people of CM, sorry for peeking my virgin @$$ for a day and vanishing for forever, i've just had a terrible unlucky streak at life rather than at gambling...

for those who dont know me (like, everyone), hey, i'm 21 from israel, i have fought my parents over going to a semi local arcade i'm going to, that has some gambling machines that got me all hooked up, the problem is, the owners dont allow changing coins back to money, so its just a cycle of coins going on....

anyway, i'm having this argument with the owner of the place and his assistant, see, i think that no matter what gambling machine you are playing, either skill based or pure luck based, it all sums up to luck....

the assistant takes the skill side of it, theres a konami machine there from 1993 that you have to throw this "spear" (sorry, lack of vocabulary) at a number while the character runs, if you hit the number, you get that much coins back, the assistant thinks that its the timing and you are responsible for hitting the numbers or not, while i think the machine determines if you win because i've seen a total alignment of the character with the number and the spear goes slightly to the right or left of it making you think "oooh, i was close" and its also a reason to insert another coin and try again, thats how casinos get us, by the balls, and innocense!

theres another japanese machine, where you have to launch plastic balls to ditches with numbers, theres a circle with numbers on top, when the ball hits a number, a light with the matching number lights up, the more complete the circle is, the more coins you get, the trick is, the ball falls from the top of the machine through a chute that swings left and right to define which direction the ball will go, followed by metal poles, much like pachinko, only that theres no built in video slot, actually, theres 1 slot wheel feature built in, when you hit a special passage in the middle of the way down, the reel spins and when it stops it gives you an additional number to the one the ball landed on, anyway, the owner and his assistant watch me play that machine and when i lose they say stuff like "heh, what a loser, getting the ball to 'X' is easy" yeah? what about the fact that when the ball hits a pole it can either go left or right and only gravity and whatever force given can decide which way it will go?

this post has part 2, so dont post anything yet, sorry :oops:
 

darkpixie

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Location
Vancouver
Anything that is going to pay you money is random and slanted to pay the operator more than the player. The first machine for sure.
The Pachinko machine (yes I believe that is exactly what it is as there are many variations out there) Is skill when it comes to triggering the slot turns (which is not easy), but after that it is pure luck of what you hit on the slot. The real wins generally come from the slot turns.
Just my 2 cents.
 

kingo'mountain

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Location
israel
thanks pixie, are you female btw? the nick implies so..... i promise i'll get a small video of the machines so you'll know what i'm talking about.

anyway, theres a third machine involved, you might have played it at a casino somewhere, its a formula1 machine, where you bet cars, then a light based roulette spins and stops on a certain car (will get a video of that too),
every car has its own multiplier, which is multiplied by your bet.

my general question about those 2 posts is this:

1.) Is luck involved in all those machines or skill?

2.) is there an ultimate strategy like when to quit a machine and move to another, or is it all about hunches when youre sure a machine will pay you big and recover your losses?

[edit]: oh and btw, any of you know hebrew? [/edit]
 

darkpixie

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Location
Vancouver
#1 luck luck luck
#2 Quit while you are ahead. Always.
 

frufrugirl

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
NorthWest USA
Ive noticed in almost all the machines at the B and Ms there is a stop spin option, assuming you are fast enough to stop the spin on a winning combo..that would be skill, No? Of course, you may be playing at a machine that is not paying out because no trigger figure is coming up on the first reel, I guess that would be a matter of luck, finding one that is set to pay! Ps, what is the point of playing in an arcade that dosnt pay you in cash? do you get a dudad or trinket?:) If your hooked on playing your better off playing somewhere where you get cash back if you win. At least you can offset your losing streak every once in awhile, and I say again, every ONCE in awhile!:) lol
Welcome back!(nope, not im not Hebrew):)
 

Addisyn

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Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
Underground Sewer Access
I doubt this comment will really add anything to the discussion but here goes. :lolup: It is all luck unless you are like Zoozie, Slotster, Simmo and a few others who have studied the behavior of the games. They generously share their knowledge with us which I appreciate.

For me right now the casinos are running cold. I'm not doing anything differently I just can't catch a break. So in my humble opinion it is luck for the most part and skill if you have done your homework.

The slots are a crap shoot with an across the board 95.2 or so payout. Playing more skill based games such as BJ has a higher player edge. Then again I play BJ get 20 and the dealer 21 way too many times for me! :D

Do you take a break when you aren't winning or figure these are the ups and downs of this pasttime? Or maybe you pull back a bit? Bet lower, deposit less, cashout and go elsewhere? Tell me what to do!!!!!! :eek:
 

soflat

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
It's luck, but you probably narrow the house edge a little with basic strategy (just like bj, vp, etc).

For example, in the shooting game you achieve the best payout by timing the shot. After that it is luck. If you time it perfectly, then you will maximize your return.
 

kingo'mountain

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Location
israel
Ive noticed in almost all the machines at the B and Ms there is a stop spin option, assuming you are fast enough to stop the spin on a winning combo..that would be skill, No?

well, skillstop slots are actually (in my opinion) 20% skill and 80% luck, unless you are fast enough to time your stops on the same symbol which means great hand-eye coordination, then it would be 20% luck and 80% skill!

Ps, what is the point of playing in an arcade that dosnt pay you in cash?

well, here in israel, much like the US lately... gambling is illegal, the only real casino closest to israel is in Taba near Sinai (Egypt), i dont have a car license yet and if i had, i wouldnt be allowed to drive there unless i lie and say i'm going to sleep with a friend for 2 or more days, the only option left for me is an online casino, but i have problems, although i have my own bank account, i dont have a credit card because my parents fear i'm gonna spend all the savings account on gambling, i've tried to hook up neteller with my bank account, but i need to send them some identification documents before i can complete the micro deposit confirmation, i've given up on that because i dont have any house bills that can confirm my address and bank account info and ownership, so the closest i can get to gambling is that arcade!


do you get a dudad or trinket?:)

:what:


At least you can offset your losing streak every once in awhile, and I say again, every ONCE in awhile

the only way i can offset my losses, is by stopping all play at that arcade, and getting a job, ..... dont worry about the job thing, but quitting this habit wont be easy, that arcade is my life!
 

Rusty

Banned User - repetitive flaming
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Location
Manchester UK
Woah!

Sounds as though your Mum and Dad would probably be right about your gambling away your money online so it is probably best that you have no credit card at the mo.
I am not going to tell you not to gamble as that would be hypocritical of me to say the least but maybe you need some positive distractions so that the arcade is not your life.
I will leave you to work out what those distractiond might be :rolleyes:
By the way those guys in the arcade sound like they are baiting you on purpose to get you to play more.
Good luck!
 

frufrugirl

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
NorthWest USA
well, here in israel, much like the US lately... gambling is illegal, the only real casino closest to israel is in Taba near Sinai (Egypt), i dont have a car license yet and if i had, i wouldnt be allowed to drive there unless i lie and say i'm going to sleep with a friend for 2 or more days, the only option left for me is an online casino, but i have problems, although i have my own bank account, i dont have a credit card because my parents fear i'm gonna spend all the savings account on gambling, i've tried to hook up neteller with my bank account, but i need to send them some identification documents before i can complete the micro deposit confirmation, i've given up on that because i dont have any house bills that can confirm my address and bank account info and ownership, so the closest i can get to gambling is that arcade!

:what:

the only way i can offset my losses, is by stopping all play at that arcade, and getting a job, ..... dont worry about the job thing, but quitting this habit wont be easy, that arcade is my life!
Ahhhhh I see. Maybe you are playing for the social life too? Nothing wrong with that. I see kids playing Nintendo Game Cube and DS like crazy..they are playing just to beat it..they share insider info online and with friends, have a huge network set up! They are in it for winning and friends. Hmm sounds familiar...lol
I know its hard to stop. Sounds like you enjoy winning but are putting money into something with no return. Maybe play online for free? (most of us dont think that is satisfying though, I USED to) Now I play on the website "gone gambling" you play their games for points, they give you a couple of thousand to start you off. There are other uses for the points but I play purely to accumulate them.The auction is the best. Its free and fun and it satisfies my urge.
(dodads or trinkets....when you win, do you get arcade coins back that can be exchanged for things like radios, toys ect?:)
 

kingo'mountain

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Location
israel
Ahhhhh I see. Maybe you are playing for the social life too?

you can say that! i love to see kids and teens reach out to these machines and play like it was for real, i cheer them when they win big and i sometimes get carried away by shouting "no, dont do this, do that instead, it will pay you off in the end".... "yes, keep doubling, that machine is hot!"... "no, dont gamble that, please". its funny to see them bet with the "at least let me win something" approach, but most of them know how to play and reach nice returns in no time, i've seen kids like 7-8 y.o turn 5 coins into 40 just by playing double or nothing (which is a built in standalone feature in the formula1 machine mentioned earlier).... i even witnessed a kid which was like 7-8 as well that came in with 30 coins and ended with a whoopin' 1300 coins, again by doubling, this little fella has bigger balls than all the hardcore gamblers here put together, i wish i could reach that sum even just to enjoy the feeling of winning a load of coins and ofcourse play it all back to the machine if luck happens to run out.

speaking of luck, the owner of the place was in the same highschool and class as me, so i got the privilage of getting some free coins, well, free as in no money, but because a buisnessplace is a buisnessplace, i made a deal with him that i will help him tape back the prize tickets that some machines give, clean the kiddy rides since the place is in a mall, and do other general stuff like buying him stuff (with his money) while he was busy with the kids or fixing the broken machines (which i applause him for being a multitalent), in return, he would give me a handful of coins that would reach around 30, one time, i helped him to move all the machines in the aracade itself, and i mean huge machines that you would only see in fairs and carnavals, and wash the floor which was dustier than most of your attics, for that he gave me 300 coins which i lost in about 20 minutes, the funny thing is, later he gave me a handful which was like 20, and guess what.... i gave him all the lost 300 back plus another 200, which drove me crazy since i had to reset the machine (instead of dropping the coins in the cashout tray which would save him a big refill) because i wanted to pay him his coins back instead of gambling it off, which was painful as i wanted to keep playing anyway, but i knew it was a noble thing to do ...


this post has part 2 as well, since its 1:18 AM right now, i will continue later, cya
 
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