Resolved irregular play ???? just registered! 7 sultans!

[hakapuku]

This is not in no way a mistake by the casino! Actually it is the best showcase of Fortune Lounge ideology. After the player informed the casino that he did not take any bonuses ,casino staff started TO INVENT the new terms and conditions in order NOT TO PAY. This time the case was so absurd that the casino (after 10 days of waiting) had no choice but to pay the winnings. But when the case is a little bit less obvious - it is almost impossible to get a fair treatment from the roguish outfit like this.

 

[hakapuku]

I guess that Fortune Lounge were so happy with the implementation of the IRREGULAR GAMEPLAY rule to the bonus play so they tried to apply it to the non-bonus play too. Tons of winnings confiscated thanks to that unclear, subjective rule, the balance sheet looks better and better. Why not to use it to all gameplay, not only to bonus gameplay?

 

[Nifty29]

This is not in no way a mistake by the casino! Actually it is the best showcase of Fortune Lounge ideology. After the player informed the casino that he did not take any bonuses ,casino staff started TO INVENT the new terms and conditions in order NOT TO PAY. This time the case was so absurd that the casino (after 10 days of waiting) had no choice but to pay the winnings. But when the case is a little bit less obvious - it is almost impossible to get a fair treatment from the roguish outfit like this.

FL is a roguish outfit?

LMAO

Care to provide some EVIDENCE??

 

[fortunelounge]

I guess that Fortune Lounge were so happy with the implementation of the IRREGULAR GAMEPLAY rule to the bonus play so they tried to apply it to the non-bonus play too. Tons of winnings confiscated thanks to that unclear, subjective rule, the balance sheet looks better and better. Why not to use it to all gameplay, not only to bonus gameplay?

You obviously did not read Max's post.

It clearly states that, as a result of this issue, we checked ALL acounts where this rule was applied and only found ONE other that we subsequently rectified. This exercise was performed on all accounts since this term was published for the first time. It also states that it took 7 days - not 10 (there were weekends in between) and there was no "waiting" during this period. I was in constant communication with the player during this time and he was informed of every internal discussion and process we had to go through.

Also, the player was informed BEFORE he told us he did not get a bonus. The agents were reacting on notes pasted on the account by the Player Security Department from the outset of our communication with the player. Nothing was "invented" after he told us that he did not receive a bonus.

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[vinylweatherman]

You obviously did not read Max's post.

It clearly states that, as a result of this issue, we checked ALL acounts where this rule was applied and only found ONE other that we subsequently rectified. This exercise was performed on all accounts since this term was published for the first time. It also states that it took 7 days - not 10 (there were weekends in between) and there was no "waiting" during this period. I was in constant communication with the player during this time and he was informed of every internal discussion and process we had to go through.

Also, the player was informed BEFORE he told us he did not get a bonus. The agents were reacting on notes pasted on the account by the Player Security Department from the outset of our communication with the player. Nothing was "invented" after he told us that he did not receive a bonus.

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

This mistake was so GREAT, and so "STUPID", that the follow on effect will continue for a while. This mistake was also made TWICE, and clearly the other player ONLY got fair treatment because of the review, and NOT because of anything that happened at the time.

FL should not even have needed the PLAYER to tell them they didn't take a bonus, they should have KNOWN from the outset. It is this that is making this so hard to accept, as KNOWING this player didn't take a bonus, the security department STILL decided to implement this rule. It also seems that it was the publicity, and resulting pressure from the community, that made the resolution as fast as 7 working days. Despite the plaudits, 7 working days to resolve such a straight forward issue does NOT show FL in a good light - it should have taken 7 MINUTES to see this was completely wrong, and the player should have had their winnings released for processing that same day, along with an apology. Testimony from the player seems to suggest otherwise, that he felt this was a struggle he wasn't going to win on his own, hence the decision to take it to the forum.

Had this been dealt with properly from the start, this thread, and the poor impression of FL it creates, would not exist.

THIS is the legacy FL have to deal with from this mistake, they have by no means "got off lightly".

 

[Jufo]

FL is a roguish outfit?

LMAO

Care to provide some EVIDENCE??

Not sure how many strikes it takes to call someone roguish but browsing through some other gambling forums I saw a disturbing number of confiscations by FL for vague reasons:

Posted at Gambling Grumbles:

- Indian player plays slots at Platinum Play and wins 2900 EUR. Casino asks for documents which player sends. Casino says they can't verify identity (probably because of less common Indian ID), confiscate the withdrawal and don't enter further discussion.

- Player wins 5100€ at Royal Vegas. Sends documents and is cleared. Casino confiscates winnings stating "There are similarities between your account and other accounts within the casino". However, the player claims she only has one account.

Posted at Beating bonuses:

- Player wins well over 10K at FL casino with their generous VIP bonuses. FL confiscates balance stating "Your account has been linked to other accounts". Player claims having only one account.

I think that this latest incident of attempting to confiscate a non-bonus deposit puts a serious doubt on whether any of these above confiscations have been valid either.

 

[maxd]

I think that this latest incident of attempting to confiscate a non-bonus deposit puts a serious doubt on whether any of these above confiscations have been valid either.

I disagree. I've investigated a number of FL cases over the years -- significantly more than you've quoted above -- and found them to generally be pretty reliable. The recent screw-up is indeed regrettable but, need I remind you, it was set right. It's not like we're looking at a Betfair situation where millions were confiscated and sweet FA done about it. Something like that should make you question past judgments. Fixing the immediate problem and moving to ensure it doesn't happen again, as FL has done, is a very, very different thing.

FWIW, my reaction to your quoted cases is that they are unsubstantiated claims and without reliable details from a credible source -- Beaters hardly qualifying on either count -- it's just hearsay and conjecture. Basing your "serious doubt" conclusion on such is highly questionable.

 

[sixstrings]

This mistake was so GREAT, and so "STUPID", that the follow on effect will continue for a while. This mistake was also made TWICE, and clearly the other player ONLY got fair treatment because of the review, and NOT because of anything that happened at the time.

FL should not even have needed the PLAYER to tell them they didn't take a bonus, they should have KNOWN from the outset. It is this that is making this so hard to accept, as KNOWING this player didn't take a bonus, the security department STILL decided to implement this rule. It also seems that it was the publicity, and resulting pressure from the community, that made the resolution as fast as 7 working days. Despite the plaudits, 7 working days to resolve such a straight forward issue does NOT show FL in a good light - it should have taken 7 MINUTES to see this was completely wrong, and the player should have had their winnings released for processing that same day, along with an apology. Testimony from the player seems to suggest otherwise, that he felt this was a struggle he wasn't going to win on his own, hence the decision to take it to the forum.

Had this been dealt with properly from the start, this thread, and the poor impression of FL it creates, would not exist.

THIS is the legacy FL have to deal with from this mistake, they have by no means "got off lightly".

I think it ridicules intelligence that a casino can get away with the term mistake. Oh it was a mistake, its a just a fix away. Guilty until proven innocent is exactly how it feels to cash out forget about actually winning.

 

[Nifty29]

GEEZ.

FL screwed up.

FL admitted it.

FL made it right.

END OF.

Move along.....nothing to see here.

@jufo - I would take what these 'poor innocent players' say at BB with a grain of salt. The vast majority of those accused of fraud ARE frauds.

 

[hakapuku]

You obviously did not read Max's post.

It clearly states that, as a result of this issue, we checked ALL acounts where this rule was applied and only found ONE other that we subsequently rectified. This exercise was performed on all accounts since this term was published for the first time. It also states that it took 7 days - not 10 (there were weekends in between) and there was no "waiting" during this period. I was in constant communication with the player during this time and he was informed of every internal discussion and process we had to go through.

Also, the player was informed BEFORE he told us he did not get a bonus. The agents were reacting on notes pasted on the account by the Player Security Department from the outset of our communication with the player. Nothing was "invented" after he told us that he did not receive a bonus.

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

So you say nothing was invented?

On 11 February the OP informs the forum about the case. On 12 February he informs the forum than casino confiscates winnings because of 70% rule and that he did not take any bonuses. The same time he informs the casino about that. Now this is where FL invention labs start to work.
12 Feb: "spoke to chat and she confirmed that i didnt take any bonuses and i explained that my email said it was confiscated because of irregular bonus play. so then she said its also applies to normal terms and conditions that you cannot cover over 70% of the roulette table as they call it hedging bets and therefore irregular play". Invention number 1
12 Feb: "so i phoned up the uk helpline to confirm this and he told me that this was the case. under normal terms and conditions you are not allowed to cover more than 70% of the table playing roulette. and as i did, the casino was right to confiscate the winnings." Invention 2
12 Feb: "got another email explaining the confiscation,
apparently its against the terms and conditions set by the player security company." Invention 3
13 Feb: " it seems i have violated their normal terms and conditions. i spoke to a casino rep and he advised/told me to keep my bets under 50% of the table to avoid any hedge betting or what they deem as irregular betting. i asked why irregular betting is not explained fully on the website and he said the website terms was just a guideline and to speak to them for specifics." Invention 4
20 Feb: "the rep indeed get in touch with me
he mailed his response.
he said he had a lengthy discussion with his player security and that out of ALL the 393 bets i placed, they were ALL on red and black (not allowed in their terms and conditions) which if you look at my history is absolute bull " Invention 5

So during 9 days AFTER the OP informed the casino that he did not use any bonuses , he was presented 5 times with the invented and absolutely absurd terms and conditions by the casino staff (including one invention of your own).

 

[Nifty29]

So you say nothing was invented?

On 11 February the OP informs the forum about the case. On 12 February he informs the forum than casino confiscates winnings because of 70% rule and that he did not take any bonuses. The same time he informs the casino about that. Now this is where FL invention labs start to work.
12 Feb: "spoke to chat and she confirmed that i didnt take any bonuses and i explained that my email said it was confiscated because of irregular bonus play. so then she said its also applies to normal terms and conditions that you cannot cover over 70% of the roulette table as they call it hedging bets and therefore irregular play". Invention number 1
12 Feb: "so i phoned up the uk helpline to confirm this and he told me that this was the case. under normal terms and conditions you are not allowed to cover more than 70% of the table playing roulette. and as i did, the casino was right to confiscate the winnings." Invention 2
12 Feb: "got another email explaining the confiscation,
apparently its against the terms and conditions set by the player security company." Invention 3
13 Feb: " it seems i have violated their normal terms and conditions. i spoke to a casino rep and he advised/told me to keep my bets under 50% of the table to avoid any hedge betting or what they deem as irregular betting. i asked why irregular betting is not explained fully on the website and he said the website terms was just a guideline and to speak to them for specifics." Invention 4
20 Feb: "the rep indeed get in touch with me
he mailed his response.
he said he had a lengthy discussion with his player security and that out of ALL the 393 bets i placed, they were ALL on red and black (not allowed in their terms and conditions) which if you look at my history is absolute bull " Invention 5

So during 9 days AFTER the OP informed the casino that he did not use any bonuses , he was presented 5 times with the invented and absolutely absurd terms and conditions by the casino staff (including one invention of your own).

*YAWN*

NEWSFLASH - THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED.

You are confusing a MISTAKE with an INVENTION.

One is used to DECEIVE/DEFRAUD and the other is ACCIDENTAL.

It was a case of poor communication combined with human error. NOTHING ELSE.

I don't know what FL did to you in the past but you're throwing punches when the bout is over.

 

[binshakindown]

Here is my take on it, and the main reason I un-installed.

People make mistakes, I agree. Many forum members here, seem to always agree with the casino when the player openly admits that they may have made a mistake and didn’t 100% completely, follow the terms and conditions. Usually it ends with “bummer,” “so sorry,” “well, you know for next time,” etc. Maybe this casino is the one who will forgive players for breaking minor/small T&C accidentally???

You see, players are held to a higher standard than the casino. We are supposed to know every single, stinking, piece of crap, fricken term and condition that this and every other casino has. Since the casino can’t even correctly use/apply it’s own terms and conditions and did in fact, have it’s representatives resort to “invention” (as hakapuku pointed out) why should this just be blown over? Like my first post in this thread indicated, it is good that casino admitted and corrected, but it should not have happened in the first place. Plain and simple. The fact that it did happen, means no more. And thus, “me the player reserves the right to not forgive the casino, and this matter is considered closed by me the player and will not be discussed with any third parties whatsoever. If you, the casino, feel you have been wronged by the ‘me’ decision, please feel free to complain to SIUYAWV.”

And Max, I appreciate your input/insight into the corrective actions the casino was/is taking.

Shouldn’t the casino have posted this information to the forum and explained what they were planning to do?

 

[Nifty29]

Sigh.

Nobody INVENTED anything.

The CS rep just got it wrong - there is a HUGE difference between inventing excuses etc and just plain making an honest mistake.

The casino ADMITTED they were in the wrong, they APOLOGISED and made it RIGHT.

What more do you want? Dinner and drinks? A hug?

You will find that GOOD operators will not punish players for an HONEST mistake. We have seen several examples here at CM.

Trouble is, the vast majority of ' term violators' do so DELIBERATELY to scam or gain an unreasonable advantage.

Lumping FL in with rogue casinos who really DO invent reasons not to pay is ridiculous, and ill-informed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sigh.

Nobody INVENTED anything.

The CS rep just got it wrong - there is a HUGE difference between inventing excuses etc and just plain making an honest mistake.

The casino ADMITTED they were in the wrong, they APOLOGISED and made it RIGHT.

What more do you want? Dinner and drinks? A hug?

You will find that GOOD operators will not punish players for an HONEST mistake. We have seen several examples here at CM.

Trouble is, the vast majority of ' term violators' do so DELIBERATELY to scam or gain an unreasonable advantage.

Lumping FL in with rogue casinos who really DO invent reasons not to pay is ridiculous, and ill-informed.

This is a reflection of the state of the industry as it is now. Being "reputable" no longer makes that much of a difference, because we have cases like Betfair NOT "doing the right thing", and incidents like this DESTROY the trust players have for other casinos that are similarly "reputable". Now a mistake is no longer just "a mistake", there has to be more to it, and many players think of such things as "the start" of what they feel is a decline towards the rogue end of the market.

Some mistakes are just so "stupid" that players simply CANNOT believe that a competent member of staff would have made it unless they were TOLD to by some kind of internal "policy manual". There are many PLAYERS who make mistakes that are equally so "stupid" that no-one believes they ARE just "mistakes", but are evidence that the player has "tried it on" and got caught, so is trying to pretend it was all a mistake.

There are just so MANY "mistakes" being made by casino CS that it is hard to believe that they ARE mistakes, and now players tend to believe that these are POLICY decisions, that get changed when they are exposed to the glare of negative publicity, and to disguise this, the talk is NOT of a policy U-turn, but of a "mistake that has now been corrected".

This makes it impossible to tell the genuine mistake apart from the "cover-up", and the level of trust is now so low that "cover-up" is assumed to ALWAYS be the correct explanation, even where the casino concerned has a good reputation.

 

[Gret]

Sigh.

Nobody INVENTED anything.

The CS rep just got it wrong - there is a HUGE difference between inventing excuses etc and just plain making an honest mistake.

The casino ADMITTED they were in the wrong, they APOLOGISED and made it RIGHT.

What more do you want? Dinner and drinks? A hug?

You will find that GOOD operators will not punish players for an HONEST mistake. We have seen several examples here at CM.

Trouble is, the vast majority of ' term violators' do so DELIBERATELY to scam or gain an unreasonable advantage.

Lumping FL in with rogue casinos who really DO invent reasons not to pay is ridiculous, and ill-informed.

Agree...but it's hopeless...nothing will be enough for some people.


The gibberish is mind numbing and trying to figure out what the point is and what he/she wants done is futile. It is like Picard having a conversation with a Borg.