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Sen. Jon Kyl says that’s the biggest danger in online gambling. “Our kids have access to the Internet. They’re frequently not supervised. And you can run up a huge debt on your folks’ credit card very, very quickly.”

And that's the casinos fault? That's the people that gamble online's fault? No, it's the PARENT'S FAULT.

Get to the root of it, don't try to make up for SHODDY PARENTING.

If anyone wants to gamble bad enough, they're going to find a way. Beit online or off, it won't make a difference.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
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Earth
Over the years the U.S. politicians have repeatedly thrown up all sorts of accusations against the industry - terrorist funding, money laundering underage gambling, organised crime and more --- and yet not once have I seen anyone produce evidence of these alleged shortcomings and criminal conduct that are so casually thrown around.

It begs the question of why the industry has not come together to disprove these claims and challenge those who make them. Perhaps that is happening on the lobbying front behind the scenes, but it seems to me that this requires a major and well organised and funded initiative by the responsible companies in the business who have gone to considerable lengths to ensure compliance with international financial requirements like the FATF's.
 

Scooter7

Meister Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Location
Toronto
It begs the question of why the industry has not come together to disprove these claims and challenge those who make them.

Jetset,

I think the industry is too fragmented. It contains too wide a range of good and bad operators and software providers to put up a respectable, united front.

People constantly complain about RTG and/or Playtech licensing 'under-funded' and/or 'rogue-ish' operators.

People constanly complain about 'floating' T&C's.

People constantly have issues with SEO, site-scraping, spamming etc.

Chartwell (albeit a minor player), foolishly takes a 'hands-off' approach to complaints that are leveled against their licensees.

It will be much easier to make industry-wide progress once the major players (i.e. MG, Crypto, Playtech) put the long-term good of the industry above the short-term profit of each individual company.

Crypto has made a plan of licensing a small number of 'sturdier' casino operators and MG (through ECogra) has started to provide some self-policing (see JF investigation and findings), but the rest seem to continue viewing online casino players as a flock to be fleeced.

It may still take some time, but the most powerful players in the industry will eventually widen the gap between 'regulatable' and 'rogue-ish', forcing the bad apples out and paving the way for a more strict, enforceable code of conduct.

There are several forum members whose opinions on the subject I look forward to reading.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Good point. However I don't believe the industry has the luxury of time in which to wait for market forces to shake out the poorer operators (a process I think has already started but has a long way to go)

The more immediate approach to this specific problem (assuming that they can all forget their competitive instincts in favour of better representing the industry) would be for the significant numbers of major and generally fair and respectable groups to come together specifically to address this largely political problem of anti-online gaming legislators making unsubstantiated claims of terrorist funding, money laundering, underage gambling, organised crime and more.

And I think the top software licensors would be wise to join in the initiative too, regardless of whether they currently employ lobbyists.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
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May 29, 2004
Location
England
And I think the top software licensors would be wise to join in the initiative too, regardless of whether they currently employ lobbyists.

You and Scooter make good points. Until the software providers licence strictly and police their licencees, there is no chance this industry will be "clean" enough to take on a challenge. MG and Crypto and I'd assume Wagerworks from their client-list are the only ones who have acted well on this stage. Many of the others appear more concerned about the short-term profits than their longer-term reputation.
 

Scooter7

Meister Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Location
Toronto
Many of the others appear more concerned about the short-term profits than their longer-term reputation.

I'm not laying the short vs. long term battle on this industry in particular, but it's a business-world 'general truth' that senior management gets paid for this year's results, while the company is better served by looking at the long term picture.

For the youngest member of the casino industry family (i.e. online gaming), it will take a visionary management team to propel everyone forward (and kill the bad apples at the same time).

Maybe it will take U.S. regulation and a quick leap into online gaming from Harrah's or one of the other big corporations? How long would 'snake oil' salesmen last if they were up against Nevada Gambling Commission regulations?
 

webber286

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The Frozen Tundra
Regulation of the industry -- while a very long way off if ever to come -- is the clear answer to all of the issues both sides of this argument can make. The best argument that the opposition can make is the addictive nature of gambling and how online gambling can add to that addiction. The complaints of children gambling online, money flying offshore, funding of terrorists and such is rather silly and in a regulated environment would be easily controlled (this assumes the regulation makes sense of course).

Back to the addiction issue. With all of the technology that the Intenet possesses, true gambling addicts would actually be able to get better help online than anywhere else. An online casino can track all sorts of stats on an individual player, and any player that would appear to be spiralling downward could be easily tagged -- think of an algorithm that does the work of keeping tabs. This is something that would be next to impossible in a brick-and-mortar casino. The point is that in a regulated environment, an online casino could be forced to reach out to a gambler with a helping hand, it then becomes the choice of that gambler to accept help -- as with any addiction.

The problem is with the general greed of the industry. The largest proponents of prohibition are Indian Gaming and Vegas. They would rather continue with the status quo, rather than fix any problems that exist.
 

lottethedog

Newbie member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
Europe
the key to fighting all this will be for a european hosting place to come out with legistlation and regulation and fight...

until then the US can turn its nose up at CR and Antigua...

Step forward Gibraltar!
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
The more immediate approach to this specific problem (assuming that they can all forget their competitive instincts in favour of better representing the industry) would be for the significant numbers of major and generally fair and respectable groups to come together specifically to address this largely political problem of anti-online gaming legislators making unsubstantiated claims of terrorist funding, money laundering, underage gambling, organised crime and more.

And I think the top software licensors would be wise to join in the initiative too, regardless of whether they currently employ lobbyists.
I agree, it is in the software providers and casino operators best interests to lobby Congress and the people of the US.

I think any Casino (online or off) that ran its own TV Ads about Regulation and not Proabition would be very very smart. Think of the Branding, right now, before a major election.

It would also be in the Industrys best interests to financially support opponents of Senator Kyl and the other Congressmen and Senators that are trying to push these proabition type laws thru in this up coming election in November.
 

webber286

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webmeister
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the key to fighting all this will be for a european hosting place to come out with legistlation and regulation and fight...

until then the US can turn its nose up at CR and Antigua...

Step forward Gibraltar!

Acutally, the UK is stepping up to this one. They are licensing and regulating online gambling sites starting some time next year. Will be interesting to see if they stand up to the US, it's more likely them than Girbralter, Costa Rica, or the next Antigua.
 
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