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Interesting casino study

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by scrollock, Aug 30, 2005.

    Aug 30, 2005
  1. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    dont know how accurate it is, but it does claim that casinos do "cheat" in demo mode, in that they inflate the payout rate
     
  2. Aug 30, 2005
  3. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    It references the following study

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    $30 to view it :-(

    The article comes from the perspective of gambling addiction, so I'm not sure whether it will give software names and so on. I believe statistics is Psychology 101, so presumably the quoted figure, that 'The results of the test showed that 39% of the sites paid out more than 100% during the demo sessions, clearly an inflated rate. ' has been properly verified.

    Without having seen the study, though, it's very possible that 39% of sites could fairly pay out over 100%, depending on the game played. For instance, if you bet $100 (play credits) at 100 sites on 'odd' on roulette, then you would expect to pay out over 100% about 48.5% of the time.

    So without seeing what the article says, a statisitc that 39% of sites paid out more than 100% seems pretty reasonable to me - casinos might have the edge, but without variance giving players a chance to win as well as lose, nobody would play.
     
  4. Aug 30, 2005
  5. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    thats what i thought when i first read it, as they say statisics can lie, so without seeing the actual method used to determine this 39% we will never know.
     
  6. Aug 30, 2005
  7. why0why

    why0why Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    USA
    I have had decent success in real money mode. Before I played real, I played demo and I consistently made more money in demo. I don't have any hard numbers, but the feel is certainly that there is a higher payout in demo mode.
     
  8. Aug 30, 2005
  9. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    I've always felt that way... They're fishing for new clients playing for real cash, and letting you hit jackpots in demo mode is their hook and bait... All they have to do is reel you in, then clean and fillet your wallet. :D
     
  10. Aug 30, 2005
  11. esquirexx

    esquirexx Banned User

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Istanbul
    There are a difference %3 between real and demo mode,I think.
     
  12. Sep 3, 2005
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    How's it done then?

    If the games are Random how can demo mode pay more under the same rules and payout odds?
    If demo mode can be tweaked this is dangerous, as it indicates that the games are not completely random in nature.
    I played 5 Reel Drive in demo at 18 a spin and hit the big Jackpot within 100 spins. Never had it in real money though, despite hundreds of thousands of spins on the thing in the Casino Action tournaments.
    MG claim than demo mode plays the same as real mode. I have also seen a long "suck" in demo mode, and have had some very good runs across many games in real mode. I have heard that the coin size on slots can influence the percentage average due to the interaction of the different features, although the variance should be fairly small.
     
  14. Sep 3, 2005
  15. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I think this paper has already been mentioned somewhere, and we have subscription at work so I was able to read it. I was not impressed, if I remember correctly, there is no precise description of exactly what games they played, and no attempt to establish whether the numbers are statistically significant. They only played a fairly small number of games at each casino, 100 or maybe 500. If you play blackjack, it is almost 50-50 whether you win or lose, so 39% winning session would be more of an indication that fun mode is cheating in the casinos favour. :) I will look up this article again and try to contact the authors and the journal.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2005
  17. jamiester

    jamiester Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Overnight dispatcher
    Location:
    Hampshire County, MA
    If casinos actually do this...

    that is certainly cheating and rogue behavior. It should not be expected and accepted that this is the case. Particularly in point of the fact that the casinos all claim that their fun games play the same as their real games. I am not saying that this is or has happened, only that if it could be demonstrated that it had, that would be grounds for roguing, imo.
     
  18. Sep 9, 2005
  19. mac_user

    mac_user Dormant account

    According to Mike Shackleford of the wizardofodds.com:

    "All Elka System/Oyster Gaming casinos: After getting some anecdotal evidence that Netgaming.com was cheating in free play mode I gave them a try. In their single zero roulette game I placed 200 bets on red. My results were 133 wins and 67 losses. The probability of 133 or more wins in 200 spins is 1 in 3,788,515. So obviously they were letting me win. I blame the software for this and thus add all Elka/Oyster Gaming casinos to my blacklist. Besides this reason they have had a terrible reputation in the industry for years."

    If they are doing it, it's not unreasonable to think others are doing it. Considering the number of casinos on the "rogue" list here, the figure of 39% is credible.
     
  20. Sep 9, 2005
  21. jamiester

    jamiester Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Overnight dispatcher
    Location:
    Hampshire County, MA
    this is an excellent article

    that describes the working of slot machines. I found it on the internet a couple of months ago and just saw that it is also linked at the bottom of the page linked in the thread starter. This is a very good article to print out and keep:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Here is a good PDF file referenced in the above article:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    hope it works :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2005

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