Intercasino is pissing me off

gfkostas

Ex-Bonus Whore
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Location
London
I only changed the email of my account and got my account blocked and this email about activating again:

In order for your account to be verified we need you to send us the
following Documents:

1.Signed copies of the back and front of your old and new Credit Cards.

2.Address Verification:please also provide us with a form of address
verification such as a recent copy of a utility bill dated within the
last 3 months.

3.Identity Verification:A legible photocopy of government issued ID, or
passport or drivers license.


You gotta be kidding me:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: , So much hassle just for an email?
 

gfkostas

Ex-Bonus Whore
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Location
London
This is ridiculous:mad:. Now they say to me:

As part of our random security controls and procedures we need to verify
the information on your account.

Lie! The don't do it for that. My account was blocked the moment i changed my email address.
 

onemoorebaby

Dormant account
Joined
May 7, 2006
Location
australia
I very recently requested my email to be changed at three different casinos and told them that my current one that they had on file would not be active after midday that day.

It actually took a few more days than that but was not expected to.

I got responses back to that email (the one i said would not be active) stating I had to send them all that verification stuff before they will change it. What a run around.

I havent and will not do it and they can just lose my few hundred plus deposits a week as far as Im concerned.:icon_twis
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Slow down, guys.

This is for your protection that they are doing this - obviously I haven't seen the whole procedure, but the reason they need to see all the verification stuff again is because otherwise, someone could spoof (pretend to be you by modifying the From: address) and get the email address changed to their own account... by which they can then get the password changed.... then the rest of the info...

The only way they can be sure that the legitimate account owner is making the request is to see some ID again. And of course that means proving who you are all over again, otherwise again someone might have a copy of your ID (from who knows where, perhaps a compromised casino database, or even a former employee of a casino) and still be able to fool them.

I agree it's a bit draconian. Maybe there's a better way - but the only way I can think of is for them to immediately call the phone number on file for verification and security questions... and many people have already indicated they do NOT want to be called for ANY reason...

I'm sure they would appreciate some suggestions. I know this aggravates you guys and frankly it would aggravate me too - but I understand why it has to be done.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
The way to do it would be to say on the Email Change form that they need to contact you by phone immediately to confirm the address change. that said, if someone could spoof the email, they could probably spoof the telephone number too I guess.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
The way to do it would be to say on the Email Change form that they need to contact you by phone immediately to confirm the address change. that said, if someone could spoof the email, they could probably spoof the telephone number too I guess.

The whole point of a call is to use the existing registered number they used when they registered for the casino, rather than asking them to supply a new number. So spoofing wouldn't be an issue here.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
This is for your protection that they are doing this - obviously I haven't seen the whole procedure, but the reason they need to see all the verification stuff again is because otherwise, someone could spoof (pretend to be you by modifying the From: address) and get the email address changed to their own account... by which they can then get the password changed.... then the rest of the info...
You change the e-mail in the casino, not by e-mailing support.
 

ArchAngel

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Location
All over the place
Change of details

I could see this if all kinds of info was changed.

But an email?

geesh!

Well basically and realistically, they can just reply asking you to confirm your details as per your registration.

If the details don't match they know that either its bogus OR possibly you've moved. If you did move give both old and new.

However they really should NOT ask for full verification docs for such a trivial matter.

BTW Spear, for address change most casino do (all of them should) request proof of residence at old and new address, but ID and the rest not really needed.

Just the way the cookie should crumble.

Gabe
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I don't recall mentioning anything about address... this is about what is required to effect a change of email address... and as for trivial I think you have to understand that it is not difficult for someone to take control over your account if the casinos don't protect against it.

Verifying existing details is also not sufficient - again if a casino database was hacked, the hacker would have all the same details.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Publicity

Perhaps casinos should make the policy clear as to what is needed to change details, rather than the player feeling they have been jumped on for what might seem a trivial change.
From all the spam I receive, it is easily to spoof all sorts of info in an e-mail, so nothing can be relied upon.
Incidentally, resending the ID is not enough if a former employee had hacked the database, as they would have the image files too!

Ideally, a FRESH image of the photo ID should be requested, as this would mean the sender would have to have the original, and is very likely to be the owner of the account. Nothing is fullproof, casinos do not use the latest technology, neither do many governments.

There is a new device coming out soon, called "TrueMe", and is a USB scanner that does a fingerprint scan and sends the data. At the point of making a transaction at the PC, the owner places a finger on the "TrueMe" scanner which sends the data to the merchant, who compares it with a scan provided on registration. It is expected to cost around 20 to 30 (probably same in dollars), and should provide for better security at minimum inconvenience (bar $30) to the user. To fool this device, they would need to steal the original account holder's finger!
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
There is a new device coming out soon, called "TrueMe", and is a USB scanner that does a fingerprint scan and sends the data. At the point of making a transaction at the PC, the owner places a finger on the "TrueMe" scanner which sends the data to the merchant, who compares it with a scan provided on registration. It is expected to cost around 20 to 30 (probably same in dollars), and should provide for better security at minimum inconvenience (bar $30) to the user. To fool this device, they would need to steal the original account holder's finger!

That would be great, do away with all that documentation nonsense.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
There is a new device coming out soon, called "TrueMe", and is a USB scanner that does a fingerprint scan and sends the data. At the point of making a transaction at the PC, the owner places a finger on the "TrueMe" scanner which sends the data to the merchant, who compares it with a scan provided on registration. It is expected to cost around £20 to £30 (probably same in dollars), and should provide for better security at minimum inconvenience (bar $30) to the user. To fool this device, they would need to steal the original account holder's finger!
Or read T. Matsumoto, H. Matsumoto, K. Yamada, S. Hoshino, "Impact of Artificial Gummy Fingers on Fingerprint Systems," Proceedings of SPIE Vol. #4677, Optical Security and Counterfeit Deterrence Techniques IV, 2002. Bruce Scheier, one of the world top security experts wrote in
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:
"Matsumoto tried these attacks against eleven commercially available fingerprint biometric systems, and was able to reliably fool all of them. The results are enough to scrap the systems completely, and to send the various fingerprint biometric companies packing. Impressive is an understatement."
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Or read T. Matsumoto, H. Matsumoto, K. Yamada, S. Hoshino, "Impact of Artificial Gummy Fingers on Fingerprint Systems," Proceedings of SPIE Vol. #4677, Optical Security and Counterfeit Deterrence Techniques IV, 2002. Bruce Scheier, one of the world top security experts wrote in
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:
"Matsumoto tried these attacks against eleven commercially available fingerprint biometric systems, and was able to reliably fool all of them. The results are enough to scrap the systems completely, and to send the various fingerprint biometric companies packing. Impressive is an understatement."

Well, for that to happen, the "hacker" would need to have a copy of the fingerprint in the first place! Then be able to make artificial fingers.... frankly I think an inexpensive biometric device such as "True Me" is a great idea when it becomes practical and inexpensive.

I'm sure no one wants to be inconvenienced by a security procedure under any circumstance - I may smile when I get scanned and searched at airports (a regular occurrence) - but I am always irritated when I have to do this, even if I know it's for everyone's safety.

I also learned NEVER to be first in line when the gates open - always be third or fourth because random gate checks usually have no more than two people searching carry-ons and doing pat-downs. Makes no diff what class you are flying either. Every time I have been first - I have always been stopped.

Back to the original problem - in order to avoid this, do the obvious - get an email address which will be permanent... send the required documents one time to confirm the change, and that should do it.
 

gfkostas

Ex-Bonus Whore
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Location
London
I may smile when I get scanned and searched at airports (a regular occurrence) - but I am always irritated when I have to do this, even if I know it's for everyone's safety.

I always feel sad with where we have ended up when i have security personell searching as if am an animal or a thief. I do not like it at all. We are told that in order for the government to protect our freedom they need to take it away:rolleyes:

Regardless of whether intercasino is a legitimate company or not I never feel comfortable sending my passport over to someone else. We have all heared of dodgy employees in the past
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Well, for that to happen, the "hacker" would need to have a copy of the fingerprint in the first place! Then be able to make artificial fingers.... frankly I think an inexpensive biometric device such as "True Me" is a great idea when it becomes practical and inexpensive.
The hacker could be a family member, for example, a teenage son. It would be very difficult to deny that the transactions were authorized by you if there is also a fingerprint.

I'm sure no one wants to be inconvenienced by a security procedure under any circumstance - I may smile when I get scanned and searched at airports (a regular occurrence) - but I am always irritated when I have to do this, even if I know it's for everyone's safety.
Many of the measures are just there to convince the people that something is being done, or to build up huge databases in the name of security, or because some company had a very smooth salesman who promised that their gadget would solve all the problems. Can you explain the latest European rules on liquids to me? The only purpose they appear to serve is to stop me from taking my own drinking water on the planes.
 

Awai

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
Beyond the Sea...
^ the liquids thing is a result of the recent plane bomb plot which was stopped at a london airport. In short the terrorists were alledgedly planning to use "liquid" explosives hidden in drinks bottles and such like then "arming" the liquids with detonators hidden (elsewhere?) on their person, perhaps jewelry etc...thus all liquids were immediately stopped from boarding the planes, this has been relaxed however restrictions remain in place. the reason liquids are more "dangerous" is that on the one hand they look completely normal and on the other they contain no "metal" and therefore dont get scanned or noticed in the xray machines.

hope that enlightens things.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
I am aware of what happened, but try to explain the the logic in allowing liquids and gels in 100ml containers, but not in bigger ones? Why is solid ice OK, but liquid water is not? You could also smuggle liquids through security on your body.
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
When I left Vegas a few weeks ago they took away my Tylenol Gelcaps.

I thought that was somewhat ridiculous.

The baggies with small bottles they allowed last week don't make much sense either, but it makes more sense than confiscating Tylenol Gelcaps.
 

REOdeathwagon

Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Location
arizona
1.Signed copies of the back and front of your old and new Credit Cards.

2.Address Verification:please also provide us with a form of address
verification such as a recent copy of a utility bill dated within the
last 3 months.

3.Identity Verification:A legible photocopy of government issued ID, or
passport or drivers license.


4.Sit down with your naked buttocks on a photocopy machine and press print and send us a copy of this also, that way, you may kiss my ass



I agree it's a bit draconian. Maybe there's a better way - but the only way I can think of is for them to immediately call the phone number on file for verification and security questions... and many people have already indicated they do NOT want to be called for ANY reason...

Spear, I very much respect your opinions. But in lieu of sending multiple documents, IMHO many people would much prefer a simple phone call, if given the choice.


I don't recall mentioning anything about address... this is about what is required to effect a change of email address... and as for trivial I think you have to understand that it is not difficult for someone to take control over your account if the casinos don't protect against it.

Verifying existing details is also not sufficient - again if a casino database was hacked, the hacker would have all the same details.


My least worry in this whole scenario is not my casino account being hacked.
It is the ease with which Identity theft could happen with having this sensitive documentation offshore - or onshore for that matter. I'm very much worried about what could happen with rogue employees with computer saavy having access to copies of my most sensitive information.

The consequences of having your identity stolen are not trivial. This is not an issue that you can fix in a afternoon. I personally am scared to death with what can happen after this happens. It is a life changing event if you have good credit.

I recently have requested account changes at both of my banks and various credit cards, all online requests, following the passage of the UIGEA. None of these major financial institutions requested any copies of documents whatsoever.

IMO, this is the operators attempting to protect themselves against gnomes, chargebacks, etc.. Meanwhile, I am left with no protections, that I can verify, as the customer.

REOdeathwagon
 

REOdeathwagon

Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Location
arizona
This issue upsets me greatly. I hate sending this information out. This is truly a pet peeve of mine.

After a little thought on this thread, i realized two other points.

About two months ago, I changed my email addy on PokerStars. At the same time I changed my Neteller email addy also.
These two accounts is where the bulk of my online gaming $$ sit, for liquidity purposes.

No request for any documents at all, form either PokerStars, or Neteller.

I do not feel as though those two organizations comprimised my personal account security, by not requesting documents.

I did have to speak to a Neteller agent on the phone to cancel the Instacash option from my account. I disabled this feature, only to protect my account from fraud.

In all the ecommerce dealings I have had throughout the years. Not one request for documents has been made to me by any other company, besides offshore casinoes.

So when this is referred to as them protecting my account from hackers, spoofers. I do not believe this for not one second.

Lets refer to this as what it really is, the casinoes protecting their $$, from multiple account holders.

REOdeathwagon
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I agree it's a bit draconian. Maybe there's a better way - but the only way I can think of is for them to immediately call the phone number on file for verification and security questions... and many people have already indicated they do NOT want to be called for ANY reason...

Spear, I very much respect your opinions. But in lieu of sending multiple documents, IMHO many people would much prefer a simple phone call, if given the choice.

I think you've sort of read that out of context. I suggested that the only way is to call the number on file.

I also suggested that many people have indicated, here and elsewhere, that they do NOT with to be called.

I'm not saying that a call isn't possible.

One way or the other, something needs to be sorted. I think the phone call is the solution - but then people are going to have to accept that the casino MAY call them for whatever reason (verification, change of details, payment problem, whatever).

There is another issue that could occur here - some of us don't always have the same address/details for various reasons (moving house but not informing the casino, for example) that could again render this option unuseable. And letting the player say "I'm not at that number any more, please call xxx-xxx-xxxx" defeats the whole purpose of protecting the account.

You are of course entitled to your opinion - and Pokerstars has every right to operate as they see fit with regards to an email change - and what will you do when one day you see that the money you left in your account is suddenly no longer there? Do you think that Pokerstars will replace it, or even believe that they allowed themselves to be fooled?

I think that I would consider that lax security. What you claim is "protecting their $$" I think is a perfectly reasonable request, even if it is irritating.
 

REOdeathwagon

Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Location
arizona
I think you've sort of read that out of context.

If I did read that out of context, I am sorry for that. Definately, not my intention.


One way or the other, something needs to be sorted. I think the phone call is the solution - but then people are going to have to accept that the casino MAY call them for whatever reason (verification, change of details, payment problem, whatever).

The telephone call would be the preferable method for me also. For some people whose significant others do not know that they gamble online, it would not be.
The protection of my identity is much more important than the inconvenience of a telephone call.
It would be very simple to give the punter a choice.



There is another issue that could occur here - some of us don't always have the same address/details for various reasons (moving house but not informing the casino, for example) that could again render this option unuseable.

In my humble opinion this is the only time a request for copies of documents would be acceptable to me.
Unless that particular casino also requested document copies before it accepted my original deposit stake from my neteller account.



And letting the player say "I'm not at that number any more, please call xxx-xxx-xxxx" defeats the whole purpose of protecting the account.

The operators would never accept this.


You are of course entitled to your opinion - and Pokerstars has every right to operate as they see fit with regards to an email change

This change was done by me, while logged into my account, on a secure network.
A fraudster would have already had access to my account to initiate this change on a secure network.



and what will you do when one day you see that the money you left in your account is suddenly no longer there?

Write it up as a gambling loss. -- A much easier loss to deal with than and fix, than having my identity stolen.

Any money that I have ever had in my gamimg accounts has always been money that I could afford to lose.

Would I blame this on Pokerstars security for not requesting document copies before changing my email addy - no.



Do you think that Pokerstars will replace it, or even believe that they allowed themselves to be fooled?

Nope, I would fully expect their answer to be " Sorry REOdeathwagon, but you are SOL, come back when you can buy more chips."[ the sarcastic response ]
or
" Sorry REOdeathwagon, we will investigate the matter and get back to you. "[ probable response, with no further action taken. ]

At a B & M poker table, if someone steals " my " chips off the table while I am not paying attention, I expect to have no recourse either. -At that same B & M poker table, if someone steals " casino " chips, out of the dealer tray, a very different investigation takes place.



I think that I would consider that lax security.

Pokerstars and Neteller, used the exact same verification procedures as any " onshore " American financial institution has used in the past when I have changed email addresses or any other account information online.

At these onshore USA financial institutions, if my accounts are hacked or comprimised, generally the institution will " cover the loss " if I have been diligent in protecting the integrity of my account.
I am not a lawyer and do not know exactly what the american legal protections are for the customer, if an account has been comprimised " online."

In all of my ecommerce dealings, no other companies, have yet to request copies of Identification cards, utillity bills, passport, or bank statements.

No online poker room has ever requested copies of these documents from me, ever. If they did, I would take my business elsewhere.
It is my opinion that the reason PokerStars does not request copies of documents, is that they rarely offer bonuses.

Only ' offshore ' online casinoes have ever requested copies of documents from me. And these requests to me personally, were only after a cashout request was made.
The original purcha$e deposit from my neteller account has always been made, without any requests for copies of documents.

In my personal experiences only, I know this is different than the experience of the OP, who stated her request from InterCasino was made only after a email change.
IIRC, I personally never had to send document copies to InterCasino myself, and consider them an A+ casino.

If a casino wanted to really impress me, it would request these documents from me, ' before ' it accepts any funds from my neteller account.

Until that time, my opinion is that the casino is only protecting itself from multiple account holders, and bonus abuse.
It is also a great way for the casinoes to stall cashout requests on the original stake, while they are hoping you will continue to gamble.


What you claim is "protecting their $$" I think is a perfectly reasonable request, even if it is irritating.

I certainly respect your opinions spearmaster, possibly we could agree to disagree on this matter ?

REOdeathwagon
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
No problem

4.Sit down with your naked buttocks on a photocopy machine and press print and send us a copy of this also, that way, you may kiss my ass

This wouldn't present too much of a problem this time of year; get it done during the office party:D :D
 
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