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Inside Cheating..Is it possible?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by 4 of a kind, Sep 28, 2009.

    Sep 28, 2009
  1. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    Not sure if any of you remember this slot scam a decade ago in Vegas and A.C., but was wondering if something like this could be taking place online. We all know how Absolute, and U.B., pulled off their scam with access to the program. This guy Ron Harris was a computer technician and no doubt was a trusted employee in Vegas, where major regulations are in place, along with real legal consequences if caught. Vegas is not a slap on the wrist if caught, unlike online as we are well aware of. What would stop online casino owners in third world country's from pulling off a similar scam with no real fear of getting caught. Of course we all catch a few 20k royal flushes, or a random jackpot, here and there. The screen shots we view here never showed anyone hitting the real big ones. So who is actually winning the real big ones? (progressive's etc.) The only time I remember reading about someone hitting huge, was always getting screwed with the payments. All these alleged tests being done are only about random being accurate. Not about who is actually winning the big bucks.

    Here's a part of the story about Ron Harris.


    "It's probably the single most extraordinary and sophisticated cheating operation law enforcement has encountered, here or anywhere else," Thompson said. "The only reason, truly, that we were able to catch Mr. Harris was because he was greedy."
    Harris created his slot machine cheating scam while working as an employee of the Gaming Control Board in the Electronic Services Division in Las Vegas.
    Harris inserted a computer program into a device used by control board employees to check the proper functioning of slot machines. When the testing device was used by control board employees, it downloaded a cheating program, called a gaff, into computer chips in the machines.
    Harris then recruited a trio of friends and acquaintances, including his ex-wife, to play slot machines rigged with the cheating program. Inserting a specific series of coin bets allowed the program to take effect and award jackpots.
    Harris began his enterprise in the summer of 1992 and continued it through April 1996, using accomplices to collect jackpots from about half a dozen of the 34 rigged machines in Las Vegas, Reno and Lake Tahoe casinos.
    Freeman said a total of about $47,000 was taken from Nevada slot machines. Harris kept about $15,000 of that total for himself, he said.
    The cheating was uncovered In January 1995 when Harris and an accomplice won a $100,000 keno jackpot at Bally's Park Place in Atlantic City.



    They state in this article that he was caught from getting greedy. That's not true at all. Actually I saw an interview with him when this happened. He was very meticulous about the amount being won. (as far as what he said on TV) In many cases it was only to hit second place jackpots, and spaced out the hits over 34 machines not to raise suspicion. In four years he only took 47k, which he had to divvy up with accomplices. At least as far as they knew and charged him with. I read elsewhere that he made millions. When he got caught in A.C., it was just that he really wasn't a seasoned crook. He comped the room in his name coming from Vegas. His accomplice who was placing the bets came from another state. Ron Harris was in his room with his software program figuring what numbers to play based on the last draw and relaying the info to his friend downstairs. After his friend hit 100k, he got nervous and when they asked him was he staying in the hotel when he went to cash the ticket, he said yes, and gave them Ron Harris's room number. Security went to the room and found the software. All they had to do was check his friend into his own room. But they didn't want to go for the extra bucks.

    Ron Harris was not only able to crack the slot machines, but was able to predict the correct numbers in keno understanding the software. Buy the way they were the first ever to hit 10 correct numbers in keno since it started up to that point.

    Just something else to think about with online casinos. If it could be done in Vegas and A.C., you tend to wonder how far things could go with lackadaisical online. While we all are worried about fairness and getting paid, we might not even be close to the real threats. The people we talk to here everyday that work for casinos of course would be out of that loop.

    You could read more about him here.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
    4 people like this.
  2. Sep 28, 2009
  3. just play

    just play closed account

    Occupation:
    Director of Home Operations
    Location:
    USA
    I'm sure a whole bunch of CM members will say "no way" online casinos don't cheat, show me proof. (it has been talked about over and over and over here at CM) BUT IMO a machine is a machine, you can set it how you want to set it, program it how you want to program it...etc...

    I'm not saying they cheat or not cheat, although I do think about it quite often.

    A machine is a machine.

    Interesting story BTW, I never heard it before.
     
  4. Sep 28, 2009
  5. same_old

    same_old Dormant account PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    12th man
    Location:
    Australia
    bigger compaines such a MG and PLAYTECH i dont think they would because the software is leased out to the casino's so im pretty sure the casino wouldnt be able to do this.

    The other self made software casino's I reckon could but not all of them, I would be looking for the audit and the stats on that but then again they could be doctered as well.

    but in reality you wouldnt know it could be done anywhere, and it was already proven with poker.

    The funny think though even though people do know that a place is shady they still play there and yes I have proof. ABSOLUTE POKER!!!.
     
  6. Sep 28, 2009
  7. slotheadlizard

    slotheadlizard Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Movie mercandiser/Researcher
    Location:
    The Nati USA
    R. Harris

    This is an interesting topic to me. I also saw the story about the slot ring in the nineties. You are correct he did not get caught because of greed, but because of a dumb partner. Who knows how much the take in any illegal ring really is however, smart crooks won't tell because they may still be involved or know others who are. I read about and watch all sorts of shows on cheats in the industry, like those MIT kids etc( not cheats IMO). Once the slot machines went digital, and started dispersing tickets instead of cash, they became harder to cheat by those outside of the industry.

    At any rate can online casinos cheat? It would be niave of me to think that they can't. Would they is another question. Sadly it only takes one pissed, or greedy employee to try it.

    I'm not sure if this qualifies as cheating, but my husband plays at a now rogued online casino. He has been for years, and since they have always paid him, though it took forever he is ok with it. He is not a member of any forum or anything. I have gotten rid of all of his other rogues, but he still plays here. He is the type of person who will play on 1 deposit for a month, low rolling no matter how much he has, even over 500. This casino is a past the time in between poker tourneys on a good casino place.

    Now he has not won or cashed out in a while so he was giving a free chip of 50 or 60 bucks with like 20x wagering and then he can cash out double the chip. Two months ago he hit a random for about 3,000. Of course he can't cash it out and can no longer build it up for comps on an RTG. Fine, I knew they were dodgy anyway and I let it go. Then a few days ago, low and behold, same deal- he hits for 4000. Now I'm beginning to think that they are just using him to pass through random jackpot amounts. Where does this money go since he can't cash it out. The RJ amount went back to 1,00 where it remained all day. I was curious so asked chat, they said a manager would get back to him. It never happened.

    This could be happening a lot more than I'm aware of. Maybe some casinos think it is safe since they are not members of any forum. I hate to think how the Rival fiasco would have went had no one exposed them on casino forums. Had this happened to me, I would have put it all over the forums as an FYI, or something.
     
  8. Sep 28, 2009
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    All it needs is a clever hacker who can place themselves in the correct place at the right time to inject a piece of tampered code at the server end. The AP scandal relied on inside access to the software and server to inject the cheating code, which could then be accessed by anyone, from anywhere, who knew the correct access code, such as a set betting sequence.

    UK Fruit Machines have had quite a few of these "emptiers" over time, and while some were mistakes, others are said to have been deliberately planted by an employee so that the machine could be "emptied" once it was out on site.

    The amounts that could be taken from a single UK Fruit Machine were limited to around 150 to 300, but with so many about, it can add up.

    I am sure there was even a prosecution of a couple of employees for deliberately inserting a cheat, and then selling the "access codes" to other players for considerable sums of money. I was told that a top class "emptier" could change hands at 5,000 in the early stages, but became worthless after a while because too many people knew it.

    Most players learned these "emptiers" towards the end of their useful life, when the companies had already started patching the machines' code in most locations.

    Online casino "cheats" are far fewer, since the amounts that can be taken from a virtual machine are far larger because there is no physical coin hopper as is the case with our land based Fruit Machines.

    A casino running on it's own in-house software has a greater opportunity to cheat players, and this might be done by fiddling large payouts so that they are made when they are void due to max cashout restrictions. Even without any cheating, this rogue RTG is STILL CHEATING by taking advantage of the fact that a random jackpot was voided because of a max cashout restriction, but NOT placing it back into the game, and keeping it as extra profit. In the case of RTG, this effectively means they keep an extra 1% to 1.5% "hold" from the game who's RJ was confiscated, but never returned to the pool.
     
    2 people like this.

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