Resolved iNetBet has confiscated my winnings!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mario77

Banned User
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Location
Hungary
Here's the story:

At 31th October I deposited $50 to iNetBet Casino to receive the $50 Halloween bonus. The terms at the promotion page said this: "Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play." So, I decided to play single-hand video poker and won $375, so my balance become $475 ($50 deposit + $50 bonus + $375 winnings).

After this they voided my winnings and said that video poker is an excluded game. However, the terms at the promotion page didn't mention single-hand video poker as excluded game, just multi-hand.

When I informed them about this, they have changed the promotion page and added video poker to the excluded games' list. However, at the time of my deposit the page didn't mention single-hand video poker as excluded.

The real shock was that they denied that they changed anything!! However, I made screenshots before they changed the page, and also Google Cache still have the old version, here is the link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


At the top of the page it says this: "It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 31 Oct 2008 21:22:27 GMT." This proves that at 31th October there was no mention of single-hand video poker, just multi-hand. This is also an evidence that it is not true that they have not changed anything.

The problem is that they keep saying that all video poker is excluded but it is a fact that at the time of my deposit it was not excluded, according to the terms and conditions section at the Halloween promotion page.

They also sent me the link to the general promotion terms which say that video poker is excluded, unless otherwise stated. However, the Halloween promotion had different terms, the playthrough requirement and the list of excluded games were different, i.e. "otherwise stated".

I would like to hear your opinions about this issue.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I'm not a Video Poker player....but even so, Multi Hand and Single Hand are NOT the same thing, that much I do know. They most definitely listed ONLY multi-hand VP in their exclusions. If they wanted to exclude single hand as well, they should have worded it as "all variants of Video Poker", not just Multi Hand.

Your case seems pretty clear cut to me Mario, I think you should be paid.

Have you PM'd Emily Hanson, the Inetbet manager? If you go to the top of the forum, you'll see a link that says I-Gaming Forum Reps. Click on that and scroll down to Emily's name, and send her a PM. I would like to hear Inetbet's take on this. But it does seem pretty simple to me. They made a mistake in their T and C's, and that's not your fault and should not have your winnings voided.

Just for future reference Mario, any time you take a bonus, it's always a good idea to double check what is and isn't allowed (through support), and what the WR are, and get it in writing. You shouldn't HAVE to do that, but because of all the issues that arise from bonuses, it's generally just a smart move.
 

Mario77

Banned User
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Location
Hungary
It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

So they are saying that the terms listed on THAT page for that promotion, aren't the rules you should refer to when playing that promotion? But that you should refer to their general promo rules?

Max, can you comment at all on this, and what your feeling is on that? Shouldn't a casino be held to the promotion specific terms that they include on the page where the promotion details are? It is only natural that anyone claiming that particular promotion would read the rules for that promotion, and abide by them. Why would a player say "hmmmm, okay here are the terms for this promo, but maybe I'd better go and dig up their general rules, to see if they differ"?

Sorry Inetbet, but you got this one wrong....very, very wrong. And not what I expect from you guys at all. I'm very disappointed. The player abided by the terms that you wrote for that promotion. It is not his fault that you made an error and forgot to include single hand video poker in those terms. He played a game that was NOT excluded from THAT promotion, he won, he should be paid, period. Next time have someone proof read the terms for specific promotions prior to posting them on your website.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Terms and conditions:


With trick or treat coupons players must adhere to all of our rules and regulations. Offers start at 12:00am October 31st and expire 11:59pm, November 2nd 2008. One bonus per player / household (location) and computer. Match bonuses will be added to a players account on redemption. All bonuses must be wagered 15x before cash out can be made, unless otherwise stated. All deposit AND wagering must take place within the allotted time of promotion. Minimum deposits and Maximum Bonuses apply as above. Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play. Please note players are unable to use any bonus monies in their Bingo accounts prior to all wagering requirements being met. With game specific bonuses, monies can only be used on given game. Any play / winnings gained on excluded games with monies including a bonus or part thereof will result in all winnings being void. Full wagering requirements must be met prior to cash out. With all winnings due, players may be asked to provide proof of legal age. iNetBet reserves the right to withdraw bonus credit in cases of bonus abuse. Some accounts may not be eligible for bonus coupons due to previous bonus abuse.

Free monies can only be claimed by players who have deposited and played for real money in the last 6 months (since May 1st 2008). Should the coupon be claimed without this being the case no cash out will be permitted. Standard non deposit rules and regulations apply.

Looks like a genuine Google cache link, and it does indeed specify only Multi-Hand Video Poker.

If iNetBet didn't mean this, they made a typo, but should honour what they wrote, not what they MEANT to write.

UNLESS these is something else to this case, and this is indeed the reason for confiscation, then you may PAB, since iNetBet is an accredited casino.

I am pretty shocked at this allegation, especially since the OP has provided some damn good evidence with a Google cached page.

Maybe there were specific terms on the coupon itself, which would override the more general Halloween terms, which themselves override the general "catch all" promotional terms.

It is not necessary to state anything other than "Video Poker", as by default, this means EVERY variety of video poker machine, qualifying it with "multi-hand" does indeed make the exclusion specific to VP machines offering more than one hand per deal.

I had this promo offered, but I have not played at iNetbet since a VERY odd error indeed, where I had a slot say I had a bonus round, but then gave an error whenever I tried to play it off.
To their credit, iNetBet awarded me the average payout of all bonus rounds, rather than simply refunding the bet, but this kind of software malfunction gets me worried - what if a far larger amount were a stake, I am not happy that RTG software can simply make a bet disappear.

I have seen posts of claims that Microgaming does this too, however in those cases it is possible for the casino to retrieve the problem, and there is Playcheck available for the player to inspect.

PS, I have noticed the OP joined this month, and then immediately complained about iNetBet - so certainly NOT an open & shut case, there MAY be more to this.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Read his last post Vinyl....this has been ongoing for four weeks, he has already Pitched a Bitch....and posting here is his last resort. Looks to me like he's followed all the rules to the letter.

I may have to stop playing altogether at Inetbet, if they won't reverse this decision. Based on what has been presented, this is as wrong as it gets. Before making a final judgement, I'd like to hear what Max and/or Bryan have to say.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.

Well, no, "general" rules are OVERRIDDEN by SPECIFIC rules - if the general rules stood, there would be no need for specific rules.

iNetBet need to get their act together and iron out these inconsistencies between the different sets of rules - this creates CONFUSION. There should be ONE PLACE where rules and exclusions are stated, and these linked too. Individual coupons should CLEARLY state ANY differences between their rules, and the general ones, again to avoid this kind of confusion.

The ONLY way to avoid this problem is to play ONLY the RTG slots - but even then, iNetBet has a trap - look for coupons mentioning "classic slots", because even playing the wrong kind of SLOT can cause trouble.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
Did you meet the WR before withdrawing because they are totally different when playing a card based vs a slot based game in all the bonuses I have read about and since the VP had no T&C's attached to them, this is a very muddy scenrio because this can be a voided transaction...due to the WR for VP IMO.

Most casinos say 10% of any card play will reult in a credit for WR..what is this one since it was not stated? Not all your bets are credited once you play a card game..That is at almost EVERY casino...

Definitely should have checked when there were no wagering credits attached to this one game. That , to me, would have been a red flag due to the other casinos T&C's including Inetbets for VP.

Hopefully it will be resolved....


.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.


Can you tell us which SPECIFIC coupon on that page you used, there are 4 altogether, plus a non-winning "trick" cauldron? (This MIGHT make a difference, if there were overriding terms on the coupon itself, such as "slots only".)


EDIT:

I have checked them,

FF3XB - $5 free

U8AD8 - 100% SLOTS ONLY - so OVERRIDES the general rules. (If you take this one you CANNOT play ANY game OTHER than SLOTS).

YCJ89 - 100% match, refers to T & C below for game exclusions, thus this would ALLOW the SINGLE HAND variant of VP as stated.

The other cauldron was the "trick"
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I just pulled up the page as it exists NOW, and Mario is right, they have changed it to include Video Poker. This is what it reads now:

Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play.

And this is how the cached page reads:

Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play.

They absolutely HAVE changed the page and added in Video Poker. And yet they tell Mario that they didn't? Simply unreal. I don't want you to post it Mario, but do you have the email where they denied changing anything on that page?
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
This is the coupon that Mario used, but you know what is more troubling is the fact that INetBet went back in and changed the terms to add "Video Poker" as an excluded game after the fact !!
 

Stovetopp

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
On the Beach
"After this they voided my winnings and said that video poker is an excluded game. However, the terms at the promotion page didn't mention single-hand video poker as excluded game, just multi-hand"
Lets not complicate the issue by bringing up other means of errors.
INETBET, did acknowledge that winnings were confiscated because vp was played..NO IF's , AND's or BUTT's :=)) This is the issue.

So assuming the OP is honest and the quote above is correct, the burden of proof is now up to INETBET.

ps. Today I sent a letter to a casino quoting the T&C. In the T&C , it lists every game where comps points could be earned and is earned including SOME SLOTS but not all.......
I received a reply from support saying there was an error and that the T&C would be corrected to show that all slots would be included in the comp program. Well I don't consider "support" as management but just some one like myself who has a job to do..They may correct it or not , but until they do I wont deposit a penny ..STRANGELY ENOUGH I AM NOT A SLOT PLAYER IN THE USUAL SENSE..VP is my game
 

just play

closed account
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Location
USA
This boggles my mind.

They confiscated under $500?

I thought it would be in the thousands, but they resort to under $500...lol...that takes the cake!
 

Mario77

Banned User
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Location
Hungary
Did you meet the WR before withdrawing because they are totally different when playing a card based vs a slot based game in all the bonuses I have read about and since the VP had no T&C's attached to them, this is a very muddy scenrio because this can be a voided transaction...due to the WR for VP IMO.

Most casinos say 10% of any card play will reult in a credit for WR..what is this one since it was not stated? Not all your bets are credited once you play a card game..That is at almost EVERY casino...

Yes I met the WR and there is no 10% rule for card games here.

Can you tell us which SPECIFIC coupon on that page you used, there are 4 altogether, plus a non-winning "trick" cauldron? (This MIGHT make a difference, if there were overriding terms on the coupon itself, such as "slots only".)

It was the first cauldron, YCJ89.

They absolutely HAVE changed the page and added in Video Poker. And yet they tell Mario that they didn't? Simply unreal. I don't want you to post it Mario, but do you have the email where they denied changing anything on that page?

Yes, of course I have all of their e-mails. However, it is possible that the support representative was not aware of the change of the webpage so I don't want to use such strong expression that they lied.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Yes I met the WR and there is no 10% rule for card games here.



It was the first cauldron, YCJ89.

Yea, I knew it was, that's why I went ahead and posted that coupon above since I also used the same coupon and I too also played video poker with it but I was not as lucky as you to have made a cashout...but like you, I too thought it was ok and fine to play single line video poker since it was not mentioned in the T's & C's as an excluded game.
 

Mario77

Banned User
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Location
Hungary
Yea, I knew it was, that's why I went ahead and posted that coupon above since I also used the same coupon and I too also played video poker with it but I was not as lucky as you to have made a cashout...but like you, I too thought it was ok and fine to play single line video poker since it was not mentioned in the T's & C's as an excluded game.

Then maybe you were lucky that you were not as lucky as me...
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Could casinos not just block games that do not apply when playing certain coupons or when a bonus is attached? "Grey" them out, so to speak? Send a pop-up that says "this game is not allowed while playing this bonus"? And INet should allow this player's winnings as he played by their Terms and Conditions for that promotion at the time he signed up to play. Winnings should be returned to the player's account, and if he had not already met the WR, extra time should be allowed him to do so, since the Trick or Treat Bonus was to be played during a specific timeframe.

Inetbet does not offer Livechat or telephone support, and I emailed them over an hour ago asking about the game restrictions they mentioned on their Turkey bonus coupon...(before reading this thread, BTW) as it was not really clear to me. I choose the $5 ND coupon, and clause pertaining to the ND bonus states

"Any free money given, that does not require a deposit, e.g. a Non-Deposit Coupon, loyalty bonus, comps, VIP bonus, vanity card, manager deposit, competition/tournament prizes, compensation bonus, inconvenience bonus, birthday bonus etc. (unless otherwise stated) will have a maximum cash out of 10x the bonus given e.g. $50 given max cash out = $500. Excess winnings will be removed. Monies must be turned over at least 15x (unless otherwise stated) before any cash out can be made.(amended June 2004)"
. Now I am guessing that means that the same clause that prohibitsCraps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play. But I don't want to wait over an hour for a response either. And I'm not sure about Bonus Bingo...is that considered a Bingo Room? They talk about bonus monies not being able to be used in a player's Bingo account.

And they truly do need someone to proof read their stuff. The offer still refers to "Trick or Treat" bonuses in the first line.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Could casinos not just block games that do not apply when playing certain coupons or when a bonus is attached? "Grey" them out, so to speak? Send a pop-up that says "this game is not allowed while playing this bonus"?

Yes they can...3Dice does this now with their tournaments...:)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Yea, I knew it was, that's why I went ahead and posted that coupon above since I also used the same coupon and I too also played video poker with it but I was not as lucky as you to have made a cashout...but like you, I too thought it was ok and fine to play single line video poker since it was not mentioned in the T's & C's as an excluded game.

Well, ask for YOUR "winnings" to be confiscated & deposit returned.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
LOL, didn't have any winnings...:cool:

That's the point Rob. If they are going to void your play like Mario, you should be treated the same ie your "$0" winnings confiscated :p and your deposit returned. Of course that could also mean that players can take advantage of this if they played allowed games, lost and then played a single game of VP just to get around this.

Inetbet has some explaining to do. Nevertheless, dont ask the OP to pm you this time. It wont work as he has been given the runaround for 4 weeks. I would also like to know the reason for altering the list of excluded games to include VP. If not for the latter, I would have accepted an explanation that Inet goofed up and what they had to do was to pay Mario. Now it gets worse.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
My position in this case was based on the general exclusion found under the casino's
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
which reads as follows (my bolding):

Unless otherwise stated offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play. Any play on these games using a balance that includes any bonus or part thereof, will result in all winnings becoming null and void.

In other words this particular bonus offer, or any other, does not apply to VP unless they specifically say it does, which they did not.

The original terms of the bonus did mention some games that were excluded but said nothing specific about Video Poker, hence the general exclusion of VP stands.

Sure, the casino could have made life easier by explicitly repeating their exclusion of VP in the bonus offer -- which apparently they later did -- but the way I read it the Terms have them covered: the bonus does not apply to VP unless they state it does, any play on VP using any bonus "will result in all winnings becoming null and void".

Furthermore the player obviously knew about the general exclusion of VP. To assume that that did not apply to this specific bonus because the casino failed to repeat the exclusion is a false interpretation of the T&Cs.

If there was some question in their mind as to whether the standing rule excluding VP had changed then the proper course of action would have been to ask the casino, which they did not.

The bottom line is that the player's assumptions about the T&Cs are not the casino's fault.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
I swear, it seems as though these casinos could just make it simple and say in the specific coupon that you are allowed to play this game and this game and that game and nothing else if you accept this coupon....why in the world would it be so hard to simply do this and then there would never be an issue with these coupons or the T's & C's...:rolleyes:
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
My position in this case was based on the general exclusion found under the casino's
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
which reads as follows (my bolding):



In other words this particular bonus offer, or any other, does not apply to VP unless they specifically say it does, which they did not.

The original terms of the bonus did mention some games that were excluded but said nothing specific about Video Poker, hence the general exclusion of VP stands.

Sure, the casino could have made life easier by explicitly repeating their exclusion of VP in the bonus offer -- which apparently they later did -- but the way I read it the Terms have them covered: the bonus does not apply to VP unless they state it does, any play on VP using any bonus "will result in all winnings becoming null and void".

Furthermore the player obviously knew about the general exclusion of VP. To assume that that did not apply to this specific bonus because the casino failed to repeat the exclusion is a false interpretation of the T&Cs.

If there was some question in their mind as to whether the standing rule excluding VP had changed then the proper course of action would have been to ask the casino, which they did not.

The bottom line is that the player's assumptions about the T&Cs are not the casino's fault.

Max,

I just cannot agree with you here. By stating that this specific Halloween promotion does not allow Craps, Roulette, MH Poker, BJ/21 variants or Baccarat it would obviously be felt by most that this would override the General Terms and Conditions otherwise it would serve no purpose in repeating most of the disallowed games and purposely omitting VP. This would seem to be a trap more than anything else as the casino should simply have said that the list of excluded games is in the General T's and C's.

If this specific promotion had listed something like Progressive Slots as exclusions which was not listed in the general T's and C's Inetbet may well have a case that the player should conform to not playing the other games listed as well. In listing all other games other than VP in the Halloween coupon, it does seem that they have given the green light for play on this and confiscation of winnings using this excuse is just not right IMO.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Well, after a 2 hour and 40 min wait, I got a response to my email linking me to the FRONT page of the promotions. I read all that, and still had a question.

It's only $5, but this was not very helpful.

It's midnight now, I think I will just go to bed.

I've been a gambler for more than 30 years, and this is starting to get ridiculous. Even in the last 9 months since I have been a CM member, there seem to be more and more problems with online casinos.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top