iNetBet does not want to pay my winnings!

[FugLac]

I made a deposit of $500 to iNetBet and I played with high bets (usually $100 per hand) and turned it into $2660. I also received the welcome bonus of $150, resulting a balance of $2810. I was really happy and cashed out my winnings.

But I made a mistake: I played at my friend's computer who advised this casino, and the casino said that they have a "one bonus per computer" rule and because of this, they don't want to pay my winnings ($2310), just my original deposit ($500)!! They may be right that I didn't read that rule but I feel it is really unfair to punish me in this way. I made my winnings by risking my own money with high bets and this has nothing to do with the bonus. If there's a "one bonus per computer" rule, then why did they gave me the bonus? Or, if they mistakenly gave two bonuses to a computer, why don't they just remove the bonus? Why "steal" the winnings which I made by risking my own money (and not the bonus)??

Now I checked their terms&conditions and it doesn't say that if they mistakenly give two bonuses to one computer, then the winnings will be void. They called me an "abuser", because I live in the same city as my friend (very surprising: most friends of almost everyone usually live in the same city as he/she) and because we have the same bank, but in fact, OTP is the biggest bank here and almost everyone has their account with them, so if you choose randomly between the people here, you can almost be sure that their bank is the same (OTP).

I see that iNetBet is on the trusted casinos' list on this site so I'm really disappointed that this can happen. I found on the wizardofodds.com's "What is expected of the casino" section:

"The casino will abide by its own rules. In particular if a player is deemed to be a "bonus abuser" (taking advantage of a bonus but not giving more than the required play) it is fine to cut off that player from future bonuses, or even terminate his account. However once a player earns a bonus that bonus may not be seized, nor any winnings that resulted from it."

I would like to hear your opinions. What can I do? How could I prove that I'm innocent if they think that I'm an "abuser"?

 

[thelawnet]

I made a deposit of $500 to iNetBet and I played with high bets (usually $100 per hand) and turned it into $2660. I also received the welcome bonus of $150, resulting a balance of $2810. I was really happy and cashed out my winnings.

But I made a mistake: I played at my friend's computer who advised this casino, and the casino said that they have a "one bonus per computer" rule and because of this, they don't want to pay my winnings ($2310), just my original deposit ($500)!! They may be right that I didn't read that rule but I feel it is really unfair to punish me in this way. I made my winnings by risking my own money with high bets and this has nothing to do with the bonus. If there's a "one bonus per computer" rule, then why did they gave me the bonus? Or, if they mistakenly gave two bonuses to a computer, why don't they just remove the bonus? Why "steal" the winnings which I made by risking my own money (and not the bonus)??

Now I checked their terms&conditions and it doesn't say that if they mistakenly give two bonuses to one computer, then the winnings will be void. They called me an "abuser", because I live in the same city as my friend (very surprising: most friends of almost everyone usually live in the same city as he/she) and because we have the same bank, but in fact, OTP is the biggest bank here and almost everyone has their account with them, so if you choose randomly between the people here, you can almost be sure that their bank is the same (OTP).

I see that iNetBet is on the trusted casinos' list on this site so I'm really disappointed that this can happen. I found on the wizardofodds.com's "What is expected of the casino" section:

"The casino will abide by its own rules. In particular if a player is deemed to be a "bonus abuser" (taking advantage of a bonus but not giving more than the required play) it is fine to cut off that player from future bonuses, or even terminate his account. However once a player earns a bonus that bonus may not be seized, nor any winnings that resulted from it."

I would like to hear your opinions. What can I do? How could I prove that I'm innocent if they think that I'm an "abuser"?

I can see why they would not pay you.

The Wizardofodds definition says 'if you play the minimum and cashout you should be paid'. It doesn't say 'if you take the same bonus fifteen times at a casino where you're only supposed to get it once, they have to pay you'. That's cheating.....

The problem is that you say it had nothing to do with the bonus, when you said in the previous sentence that you received a $150 bonus. So clearly it is bonus-related.

Two bonuses on the same PC is going to cause you hassles. At this point the onus has shifted from the casino to pay you because you won, to you, to prove you didn't break their rules and deserve to be paid.

What this is going to look like is your friend using your name to do the bonus again, which the casino will not like.

 

[bpb]

If you and your friend used two different deposit methods (ie ... different bank accounts), and can produce two different IDs, I think it is very unreasonable for them not to pay you.

Send a PM to Emily Hanson, and politely explain the situation. Once you prove that your intentions weren't fraudulent, I'm sure they will pay you. I doubt that iNetBet is looking to stiff you on a technicality. But be careful in the future, as many online casinos ARE looking to stiff you on technicalities.

 

[FugLac]

I can see why they would not pay you.

The Wizardofodds definition says 'if you play the minimum and cashout you should be paid'. It doesn't say 'if you take the same bonus fifteen times at a casino where you're only supposed to get it once, they have to pay you'. That's cheating.....

The problem is that you say it had nothing to do with the bonus, when you said in the previous sentence that you received a $150 bonus. So clearly it is bonus-related.

Two bonuses on the same PC is going to cause you hassles. At this point the onus has shifted from the casino to pay you because you won, to you, to prove you didn't break their rules and deserve to be paid.

What this is going to look like is your friend using your name to do the bonus again, which the casino will not like.

I didn't take the bonus fifteen times, just one time.

My winnings were $2310 ($2160 + $150 bonus). If they remove the $150, the remaining $2160 has really nothing to do with the bonus! I made this by risking my own money. When I received the bonus, my balance was over $1000. I didn't have a bet where I used the bonus.

I don't really understand this sentence: "At this point the onus has shifted from the casino to pay you because you won, to you, to prove you didn't break their rules and deserve to be paid."

You're right that now they think that I'm an abuser and you're right that I made a mistake. But my question is: what can I do now?

Anyway, why I think that this is highly unfair is that they had the option of simply not giving me the bonus, but instead, they let me play. Their "strategy" can be described as this: "We can see that he playes in the same computer as someone else but let him have the bonus and let him play! If he loses, great. If he wins, we will call him an "abuser" and seize his winnings. In this way, we have no risk at all and we can only win." From my point of view, it is that I had the option of losing my deposit but I didn't have the option of winning. The correct strategy would be that they simply don't give the bonus or they remove it after they gave it by mistake. In this case the situation would be the same as if I didn't receive the bonus. I say again, the bonus value is $150 but my winnings is $2310 which I have made by risking my own money, and not by risking the bonus.

This "let him risk his money and if he loses - great, if he wins - we return only his deposit" strategy reminds me something: a "magician" offered to pregnant women that if they pay him, he will predict that the baby will be a boy or a girl and he even said that he guarantees that if his prediction is wrong, he will pay back their money. Of course he had no "magical power", he just guessed blindly so he had a 50% chance that his guess is correct. When his guess was correct, he kept the money (of course) and when his guess was incorrect, he gave the money back. In this way he had no risk, because he won when his guess was correct and he didn't lose anything if his guess was incorrect. He even could say that because of the payback guarantee, he doesn't steal anyone's money. However, it is obvious that his practice was not fair...

 

[esquirexx]

First,there arent any casino that allows more than one bonuses to a computer,family,etc.All online gamblers have to know this rule.

About your problem,you can send both of your ID and yur friend's ID to them and wanted to call both of you.

Player is wrong,because he played in same pc with your friend.
They are more wrong,because they gave two bonuses to the same computer.So
they must correct their mistake and pay you your winnings,only without bonus balance.

I hope you will solve this problem.we will wait to hear you.

 

[FugLac]

If you and your friend used two different deposit methods (ie ... different bank accounts), and can produce two different IDs, I think it is very unreasonable for them not to pay you.

Send a PM to Emily Hanson, and politely explain the situation. Once you prove that your intentions weren't fraudulent, I'm sure they will pay you. I doubt that iNetBet is looking to stiff you on a technicality. But be careful in the future, as many online casinos ARE looking to stiff you on technicalities.

I have already sent them a copy of my passport, my credit card (front and back), a utility bill and the faxback form! My friend told me that he made his deposit with a different bank's credit card (Erste), but requested the withdrawal to the same bank (OTP).

Plus, he told me that he played at the casino sometime in last year and not "recently", as iNetBet said in their e-mail!

Where can I find this Emily Hanson?

 

[bpb]

Click on the "Casino Operators" link near the top of the page. Click on her name, then click on "Send private message"

 

[FugLac]

First,there arent any casino that allows more than one bonuses to a computer,family,etc.All online gamblers have to know this rule.

I have learned this on the hard way...

About your problem,you can send both of your ID and yur friend's ID to them and wanted to call both of you.

The IDs were already sent. They didn't call me yet.

Player is wrong,because he played in same pc with your friend.

Yes, I know.

They are more wrong,because they gave two bonuses to the same computer.So
they must correct their mistake and pay you your winnings,only without bonus balance.

I agree...

I hope you will solve this problem.we will wait to hear you.

Of course I will write here if there are any developments.

 

[FugLac]

Click on the "Casino Operators" link near the top of the page. Click on her name, then click on "Send private message"

Thanks! I'll give her a link to this thread.

 

[FugLac]

Now I go and get a sleep (it's nearly 3 A.M. here)...

 

[emily_hanson]

FugLac

I am sorry that you feel this rule is unfair, however the practise of multiple accounts registered to one computer is one that we adhere to strictly.

We are quite clear in our Terms and Conditions that our bonus offers are only one per person/computer or family.

To state that because we allowed you to claim a bonus that you were not entitled to does not negate your responsibility in adhereing to our terms.

As I said I am very sorry that we have had to invoke this clause as not paying our players is something we do not take lightly.

Regards
Emily Hanson
iNetBet

 

[KasinoKing]

Emily,

Your response is entirely unfair.
OK, by the strict letter of your T&C's you have the right to withhold his winnings, but only rogue casinos would actually invoke this clause in this instance.

FugLac's summary of what rogues do is totally spot on!

Their "strategy" can be described as this: "We can see that he players in the same computer as someone else but let him have the bonus and let him play! If he loses, great. If he wins, we will call him an "abuser" and seize his winnings. In this way, we have no risk at all and we can only win." From my point of view, it is that I had the option of losing my deposit but I didn't have the option of winning. The correct strategy would be that they simply don't give the bonus or they remove it after they gave it by mistake. In this case the situation would be the same as if I didn't receive the bonus. I say again, the bonus value is $150 but my winnings is $2310 which I have made by risking my own money, and not by risking the bonus.

This is one aspect of online casino's that causes so much grief!
Why on earth don't you (i.e. ALL casino's) check to make sure no T&C's have been breached BEFORE you issue the bonus to the account! It would save sooooo much trouble!

Whether he knowingly breached your rule or not, having not even used the bonus I think it only fair for you to now remove the bonus & pay out his deposit + winnings.

I sincerely hope you do the right thing here.
KK.

 

[emily_hanson]

Excuse me KK but I would like you to explain exactly what aspect of our rule is 'rogue'.

Our Terms and Condition are extremely clear; we are not talking about some vague ambiguous rule that we have specifically employed as a reason not to pay someone.

We are constantly bombarded with players who open multiple accounts to claim bonus monies; there are thousands of posts concerning this subject.

Failing us visiting Hungary and meeting FugLac in person along with his 'friend we have no way of ascertaining his true identity.

As to your suggestion that we should check every new player prior to them making a deposit, to ensure that they have not broken any rules is quite unworkable, as I am sure you know. We have filters in place that preclude the most obvious rule breakers but they are not infallible, neither do they mean that because a player slipped under the radar he should be paid as he got away with it.

I must add that I am rather disappointed at this response, Casinos are continually urged to respect their Terms and Conditions, to pay people in a timely manner and to not change terms mid promo and the list goes on. All of which are correct and proper and all of which we have consistently adhered to.

We have been in operation for approaching 7 years and we are the oldest RTG Casino, our record and reputation is envied by many, yet you feel it within your rights to label us rogue because we have not paid someone who is trying to flagrantly breach the most hallowed and obvious of rules.

Emily Hanson
iNetBet

 

[tim5ny]

I used to use an online payment company that stated in its terms upon registering that for security reasons the software would capture a "snapshot" of your computer so that no other computer would be able to log-on to the account. ( it also noted your ip address as well ) . If I tried to sign on to the account with the correct username and password from another computer... it would deny me access. I find it hard to believe that the sophisticated security systems put in place by online casinos cannot detect INSTANTLY that a second account is being created on a computer or ip address that already has one. This is not a slam against Inetbet.. but most online casinos. If any online casino says that they didn't know about the second account from the same ip address/computer... until you win and try to collect, I believe they are lying. The security software would catch it instantly at sign-up of second account.

 

[caruso]

Our Terms and Condition are extremely clear; we are not talking about some vague ambiguous rule that we have specifically employed as a reason not to pay someone.

This is true, actually. The clause that Kasino King confuses with THIS clause is the generic "we reserve the right to not pay you if we feel like it" cop-out. This is not the case here - the iNetbet rule is specific.

I would be interested to know exactly WHEN the "only one freebie per computer" rule was in place; I hope it was there before this issue was posted.

Other than that possibility, the casino is in the right.

 

[kheladi]

I thought that rtg uses ip adresses and that would tell use of computer and would not give out bonus
i had not realised if i had an account at inet beore or not
( rather i do not know of it yet) but when i regestered and made a deposit and tried to use coupon for first deposit it said i had used it before
i kept playing with my original
and won and made withdrawl and it was in my neteller acount promptly
thats my experience with inet

 

[GrandMaster]

I used to use an online payment company that stated in its terms upon registering that for security reasons the software would capture a "snapshot" of your computer so that no other computer would be able to log-on to the account. ( it also noted your ip address as well ) . If I tried to sign on to the account with the correct username and password from another computer... it would deny me access. I find it hard to believe that the sophisticated security systems put in place by online casinos cannot detect INSTANTLY that a second account is being created on a computer or ip address that already has one.

What happens if you computer dies and you have to buy a new one, or you replace or upgrade a component?

IP address in itself is a very unreliable method of identification. Most people don't have static IP, when you connect you just get a random IP address from the pool of IP addresses available to your ISP.

 

[tim5ny]

What happens if you computer dies and you have to buy a new one, or you replace or upgrade a component?

IP address in itself is a very unreliable method of identification. Most people don't have static IP, when you connect you just get a random IP address from the pool of IP addresses available to your ISP.

Then they would require you to contact them via phone and then they would make you prove your identity by answering the secret questions you filled out when opening the account.

 

[KasinoKing]

Excuse me KK but I would like you to explain exactly what aspect of our rule is 'rogue'.
.....
As to your suggestion that we should check every new player prior to them making a deposit, to ensure that they have not broken any rules is quite unworkable, as I am sure you know.
....
We have been in operation for approaching 7 years and we are the oldest RTG Casino, our record and reputation is envied by many, yet you feel it within your rights to label us rogue because we have not paid someone who is trying to flagrantly breach the most hallowed and obvious of rules.

Emily Hanson
iNetBet

I never said your rule is rogue, I only meant to say that this is the type of behaviour we often see from rogue outfits.

I also never said you should check all players when they open an account, or make a deposit - only check them if they're claiming a bonus. You're going to check them anyway when they make a withdrawal, so it's no extra work for you. But by doing your checks BEFORE granting the bonus you'd save yourselves (and the players) a lot of wasted time. Surely you can agree with this point?

I agree that T&C's are there to protect both player and casino - and if you were to do a thorough search of Casinomeister you will find me urging over and over again that all players read, understand, and comply with all T&C's before depositing!

I don't like to insult people here, but I think FugLac was rather foolish because either:
a) he did not read all the T&C's before depositing.
b) he knew the T&C's but decided to 'risk it', rather than checking with you first if it was OK to use someone else's computer.
(I also can not understand why someone would take a tiny $150 bonus on a $500 deposit and then wager up to $100 per hand! But that's another issue).

We don't know all the facts of this case - if FugLac actually was opening multiple accounts to 'abuse' a bonus, then he deserves what he gets. But in my country people are innocent until proved guilty!

But the main grievance point here is the double standards that make it a win-win position for the casino.
If FugLac had been unlucky and lost $450 of his deposit, then decided to call it a day and withdraw his remaining $50, would you then have checked his validity and said "Hold on - you can't play with the bonus because you've used the same computer as another account - here's your $500 back"?
I think not. (If I am wrong, I retract most of my comments about iNetBet)

That's what pee's players off - you allow them to make their deposit, give them the bonus, and then afterwards apply one rule when they lose, but a different rule when they win.

 

[bpb]

FugLac

I am sorry that you feel this rule is unfair, however the practise of multiple accounts registered to one computer is one that we adhere to strictly.

We are quite clear in our Terms and Conditions that our bonus offers are only one per person/computer or family.

To state that because we allowed you to claim a bonus that you were not entitled to does not negate your responsibility in adhereing to our terms.

As I said I am very sorry that we have had to invoke this clause as not paying our players is something we do not take lightly.

Regards
Emily Hanson
iNetBet

I agree very strongly with what KasinoKing has written.


I fully understand why you take steps to prevent being hit by massive bonus fraud. There are some things about this particular case though that suggest that bonus fraud was not the OP's intention.

1) The two accounts registered under the same IP were not used in quick succession, but rather many months apart. Someone trying to defraud you would open 2 or more accounts over a much shorter timeframe until they hit a big score.

2) The fact that there are only 2 accounts from this IP makes the OP's story very plausible. I realize that the existence of only two accounts doesn't preclude bonus fraud, as its possible that it just happened that the big score came on the 2nd account. However, the OP's story fits with the circumstances.

3) There are FAR FAR FAR better bonuses out there for fraudsters to take advantage of. If I had my heart set on using multiple identities to defraud a casino ... iNetBet would be at the bottom of my list. The wagering requirement and game restrictions on your bonuses give an advantage player an extremely low expectation. I can guarantee that no intelligent bonus abusers are targeting you.


I understand that the OP broke the letter of you T&C. But I think it's extremely unlikely given the above that he is a bonus abuser. I don't think the spirit of your T&C is intended to deny people like him his winnings.

The big question for me is ... if he lost his deposit, would you have given it back to him, invoking your 1 IP per account clause? I'm assuming that you noticed the duplicate IP during the cashout processing. So I'll further assume that had he lost his deposit, he wouldn't have had it refunded. That puts the player in a lose lose situation. My assumption could be completely wrong however.

 

[emily_hanson]

I will try and clear up a few points made here,

Caruso
Whenever we update our rules we change the amended date, so if you have not visited since the last update you do not have to read everything again.
This particular clause has been there to my knowledge for many years.

tim5ny
You are quite right we do have that in place, however if we do not leave some leeway, i.e. the name and address are different we would be denying so many people prior to them being able to play, as to rely solely on an IP can be problematic. We simply would not have the resources to check every account prior to someone claiming a coupon to ensure it is legitimate.

GrandMaster
If your computer died you would simply be playing with a new computer address, you would not be playing under the exact same address as a person that lives nearby and plays the exact same pattern of play and wants there money sent to the same Bank.

KasinoKing
There are no double standards employed here. If you are a legitimate player then you will be paid, it is that simple, you can search every forum or Google or wherever you wish and you will not find ONE legitimate person who has not been paid by us.
I understand your argument, however as I said, in an ideal world we could check every player first, verify their details, make sure they were not opening multiple accounts, check credit cards, check NETeller etc etc.and then award the bonus. However in the real world this is simply logistically not possible.
This rule is not some obscure point and therefore to place a modicum of responsibility on the player is not unreasonable.
As to the player being refunded should he have lost, well no he would not, when you break rules you suffer consequences, unfair, as that may seem to certain parties.
It would make a jolly ruse to try and claim multiple bonuses from a Casino and if you get away with it, great, however if you are rumbled, no problems they give you your money back, even if you should happen to lose.

It really is quite simple, this rule does not threaten or endanger or jeopardise any genuine player, I think you all here know that. I also understand that it is always preferable for some posters to 'fly the flag' of the player, I also understand this, however contrary to a popular belief all Casinos are not always out to rob or cheat their players.

Best regards
Emily

 

[spearmaster]

While I'm not going to fall either side of this equation as I am not fully informed:

1. Inetbet's record is pretty damn good. I can't see them invoking this without reason, knowing that they would jeopardize their reputation if they did.

2. IP is most definitely not the only factor involved, otherwise every single person on AOL would appear to be living in the same huge house (or perhaps neighborhood).

3. Obviously, one way or the other, the same computer was involved - whether this was detected by Inetbet, or admitted by Fuglac, is basically irrelevant. I can't see Inetbet detecting the computer, because if they could, it would have been simple enough to automatically disallow play. And yes, computers CAN be detected even if you wipe your cookies. So don't even think of trying this.

 

[GemG7]

InetBet has to be the most trusted casino. If they are not paying a player they have good reason.

 

[tim5ny]

I agree that Inetbet has an untarnished reputation and is a shining star among the many RTG blemishes out there... yet with the attention to security that these casinos have to employ, I find it hard to believe that the security systems don't pick up on multiple accounts on the same computer ( not IP address ) . I used to use Citadel Commerce as a funding option, and at sign up it informed me that it was able to recognize that particular computer... and that I would not be able to sign on through any other computer. I just think that casinos can spot this also, but as some others said, they will let the player deposit and lose on the multiple account... but should he win he wont be paid. Patty is a great example of this. Her story is in the casino complaints section here and on Winner online forum. Starluck let her deposit all she wanted, and from what I read, it sounds like she poured in alot of money. They even let her make small withdrawls because the amount she was giving them was far greater... but when she hit a jackpot for $10,000.00 on a slot, then they finally found that she had multiple accounts. How convienient! This woman was crazy anyway because she had over 40 accounts, but they never stopped her until she won 10 grand and tried to cash it in.

 

[esquirexx]

agree with inetbet is one of most trusted online casino.
problem is not only about them.softwares must dedect the players who opened an account second time on a computer,and it mustn't give a second bonus to same pc.it is a common problem which software companies have to solve.