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iNetBet does not want to pay my winnings!

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by FugLac, Sep 1, 2005.

    Sep 1, 2005
  1. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    I made a deposit of $500 to iNetBet and I played with high bets (usually $100 per hand) and turned it into $2660. I also received the welcome bonus of $150, resulting a balance of $2810. I was really happy and cashed out my winnings.

    But I made a mistake: I played at my friend's computer who advised this casino, and the casino said that they have a "one bonus per computer" rule and because of this, they don't want to pay my winnings ($2310), just my original deposit ($500)!! They may be right that I didn't read that rule but I feel it is really unfair to punish me in this way. I made my winnings by risking my own money with high bets and this has nothing to do with the bonus. If there's a "one bonus per computer" rule, then why did they gave me the bonus? Or, if they mistakenly gave two bonuses to a computer, why don't they just remove the bonus? Why "steal" the winnings which I made by risking my own money (and not the bonus)??

    Now I checked their terms&conditions and it doesn't say that if they mistakenly give two bonuses to one computer, then the winnings will be void. They called me an "abuser", because I live in the same city as my friend (very surprising: most friends of almost everyone usually live in the same city as he/she) and because we have the same bank, but in fact, OTP is the biggest bank here and almost everyone has their account with them, so if you choose randomly between the people here, you can almost be sure that their bank is the same (OTP).

    I see that iNetBet is on the trusted casinos' list on this site so I'm really disappointed that this can happen. I found on the wizardofodds.com's "What is expected of the casino" section:

    "The casino will abide by its own rules. In particular if a player is deemed to be a "bonus abuser" (taking advantage of a bonus but not giving more than the required play) it is fine to cut off that player from future bonuses, or even terminate his account. However once a player earns a bonus that bonus may not be seized, nor any winnings that resulted from it."

    I would like to hear your opinions. What can I do? How could I prove that I'm innocent if they think that I'm an "abuser"?
     
  2. Sep 1, 2005
  3. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I can see why they would not pay you.

    The Wizardofodds definition says 'if you play the minimum and cashout you should be paid'. It doesn't say 'if you take the same bonus fifteen times at a casino where you're only supposed to get it once, they have to pay you'. That's cheating.....

    The problem is that you say it had nothing to do with the bonus, when you said in the previous sentence that you received a $150 bonus. So clearly it is bonus-related.

    Two bonuses on the same PC is going to cause you hassles. At this point the onus has shifted from the casino to pay you because you won, to you, to prove you didn't break their rules and deserve to be paid.

    What this is going to look like is your friend using your name to do the bonus again, which the casino will not like.
     
  4. Sep 1, 2005
  5. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    If you and your friend used two different deposit methods (ie ... different bank accounts), and can produce two different IDs, I think it is very unreasonable for them not to pay you.

    Send a PM to Emily Hanson, and politely explain the situation. Once you prove that your intentions weren't fraudulent, I'm sure they will pay you. I doubt that iNetBet is looking to stiff you on a technicality. But be careful in the future, as many online casinos ARE looking to stiff you on technicalities.
     
  6. Sep 1, 2005
  7. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    I didn't take the bonus fifteen times, just one time.

    My winnings were $2310 ($2160 + $150 bonus). If they remove the $150, the remaining $2160 has really nothing to do with the bonus! I made this by risking my own money. When I received the bonus, my balance was over $1000. I didn't have a bet where I used the bonus.

    I don't really understand this sentence: "At this point the onus has shifted from the casino to pay you because you won, to you, to prove you didn't break their rules and deserve to be paid."

    You're right that now they think that I'm an abuser and you're right that I made a mistake. But my question is: what can I do now?

    Anyway, why I think that this is highly unfair is that they had the option of simply not giving me the bonus, but instead, they let me play. Their "strategy" can be described as this: "We can see that he playes in the same computer as someone else but let him have the bonus and let him play! If he loses, great. If he wins, we will call him an "abuser" and seize his winnings. In this way, we have no risk at all and we can only win." From my point of view, it is that I had the option of losing my deposit but I didn't have the option of winning. The correct strategy would be that they simply don't give the bonus or they remove it after they gave it by mistake. In this case the situation would be the same as if I didn't receive the bonus. I say again, the bonus value is $150 but my winnings is $2310 which I have made by risking my own money, and not by risking the bonus.

    This "let him risk his money and if he loses - great, if he wins - we return only his deposit" strategy reminds me something: a "magician" offered to pregnant women that if they pay him, he will predict that the baby will be a boy or a girl and he even said that he guarantees that if his prediction is wrong, he will pay back their money. Of course he had no "magical power", he just guessed blindly so he had a 50% chance that his guess is correct. When his guess was correct, he kept the money (of course) and when his guess was incorrect, he gave the money back. In this way he had no risk, because he won when his guess was correct and he didn't lose anything if his guess was incorrect. He even could say that because of the payback guarantee, he doesn't steal anyone's money. However, it is obvious that his practice was not fair...
     
  8. Sep 1, 2005
  9. esquirexx

    esquirexx Banned User

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Istanbul
    First,there arent any casino that allows more than one bonuses to a computer,family,etc.All online gamblers have to know this rule.

    About your problem,you can send both of your ID and yur friend's ID to them and wanted to call both of you.

    Player is wrong,because he played in same pc with your friend.
    They are more wrong,because they gave two bonuses to the same computer.So
    they must correct their mistake and pay you your winnings,only without bonus balance.

    I hope you will solve this problem.we will wait to hear you.
     
  10. Sep 1, 2005
  11. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    I have already sent them a copy of my passport, my credit card (front and back), a utility bill and the faxback form! My friend told me that he made his deposit with a different bank's credit card (Erste), but requested the withdrawal to the same bank (OTP).

    Plus, he told me that he played at the casino sometime in last year and not "recently", as iNetBet said in their e-mail!

    Where can I find this Emily Hanson?
     
  12. Sep 1, 2005
  13. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    Click on the "Casino Operators" link near the top of the page. Click on her name, then click on "Send private message"
     
  14. Sep 1, 2005
  15. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    I have learned this on the hard way...

    The IDs were already sent. They didn't call me yet.

    Yes, I know.

    I agree...

    Of course I will write here if there are any developments.
     
  16. Sep 1, 2005
  17. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    Thanks! I'll give her a link to this thread.
     
  18. Sep 1, 2005
  19. FugLac

    FugLac Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Hospitality
    Location:
    Hungary
    Now I go and get a sleep (it's nearly 3 A.M. here)...
     
  20. Sep 1, 2005
  21. emily_hanson

    emily_hanson Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    iNetBet Casino Manager
    Location:
    London
    FugLac

    I am sorry that you feel this rule is unfair, however the practise of multiple accounts registered to one computer is one that we adhere to strictly.

    We are quite clear in our Terms and Conditions that our bonus offers are only one per person/computer or family.

    To state that because we allowed you to claim a bonus that you were not entitled to does not negate your responsibility in adhereing to our terms.

    As I said I am very sorry that we have had to invoke this clause as not paying our players is something we do not take lightly.

    Regards
    Emily Hanson
    iNetBet
     
  22. Sep 1, 2005
  23. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Emily,

    Your response is entirely unfair.
    OK, by the strict letter of your T&C's you have the right to withhold his winnings, but only rogue casinos would actually invoke this clause in this instance.

    FugLac's summary of what rogues do is totally spot on!
    This is one aspect of online casino's that causes so much grief!
    Why on earth don't you (i.e. ALL casino's) check to make sure no T&C's have been breached BEFORE you issue the bonus to the account! It would save sooooo much trouble!

    Whether he knowingly breached your rule or not, having not even used the bonus I think it only fair for you to now remove the bonus & pay out his deposit + winnings.

    I sincerely hope you do the right thing here.
    KK.
     
  24. Sep 1, 2005
  25. emily_hanson

    emily_hanson Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    iNetBet Casino Manager
    Location:
    London
    Excuse me KK but I would like you to explain exactly what aspect of our rule is 'rogue'.

    Our Terms and Condition are extremely clear; we are not talking about some vague ambiguous rule that we have specifically employed as a reason not to pay someone.

    We are constantly bombarded with players who open multiple accounts to claim bonus monies; there are thousands of posts concerning this subject.

    Failing us visiting Hungary and meeting FugLac in person along with his 'friend we have no way of ascertaining his true identity.

    As to your suggestion that we should check every new player prior to them making a deposit, to ensure that they have not broken any rules is quite unworkable, as I am sure you know. We have filters in place that preclude the most obvious rule breakers but they are not infallible, neither do they mean that because a player slipped under the radar he should be paid as he got away with it.

    I must add that I am rather disappointed at this response, Casinos are continually urged to respect their Terms and Conditions, to pay people in a timely manner and to not change terms mid promo and the list goes on. All of which are correct and proper and all of which we have consistently adhered to.

    We have been in operation for approaching 7 years and we are the oldest RTG Casino, our record and reputation is envied by many, yet you feel it within your rights to label us rogue because we have not paid someone who is trying to flagrantly breach the most hallowed and obvious of rules.

    Emily Hanson
    iNetBet
     
  26. Sep 1, 2005
  27. tim5ny

    tim5ny Quit Gambling

    I used to use an online payment company that stated in its terms upon registering that for security reasons the software would capture a "snapshot" of your computer so that no other computer would be able to log-on to the account. ( it also noted your ip address as well ) . If I tried to sign on to the account with the correct username and password from another computer... it would deny me access. I find it hard to believe that the sophisticated security systems put in place by online casinos cannot detect INSTANTLY that a second account is being created on a computer or ip address that already has one. This is not a slam against Inetbet.. but most online casinos. If any online casino says that they didn't know about the second account from the same ip address/computer... until you win and try to collect, I believe they are lying. The security software would catch it instantly at sign-up of second account.
     
  28. Sep 1, 2005
  29. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    This is true, actually. The clause that Kasino King confuses with THIS clause is the generic "we reserve the right to not pay you if we feel like it" cop-out. This is not the case here - the iNetbet rule is specific.

    I would be interested to know exactly WHEN the "only one freebie per computer" rule was in place; I hope it was there before this issue was posted.

    Other than that possibility, the casino is in the right.
     
  30. Sep 1, 2005
  31. kheladi

    kheladi Dormant account

    Occupation:
    huh dont know really
    Location:
    usa
    I thought that rtg uses ip adresses and that would tell use of computer and would not give out bonus
    i had not realised if i had an account at inet beore or not
    ( rather i do not know of it yet) but when i regestered and made a deposit and tried to use coupon for first deposit it said i had used it before
    i kept playing with my original
    and won and made withdrawl and it was in my neteller acount promptly
    thats my experience with inet
     
  32. Sep 1, 2005
  33. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    What happens if you computer dies and you have to buy a new one, or you replace or upgrade a component?

    IP address in itself is a very unreliable method of identification. Most people don't have static IP, when you connect you just get a random IP address from the pool of IP addresses available to your ISP.
     
  34. Sep 1, 2005
  35. tim5ny

    tim5ny Quit Gambling


    Then they would require you to contact them via phone and then they would make you prove your identity by answering the secret questions you filled out when opening the account.
     
  36. Sep 1, 2005
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I never said your rule is rogue, I only meant to say that this is the type of behaviour we often see from rogue outfits.

    I also never said you should check all players when they open an account, or make a deposit - only check them if they're claiming a bonus. You're going to check them anyway when they make a withdrawal, so it's no extra work for you. But by doing your checks BEFORE granting the bonus you'd save yourselves (and the players) a lot of wasted time. Surely you can agree with this point?

    I agree that T&C's are there to protect both player and casino - and if you were to do a thorough search of Casinomeister you will find me urging over and over again that all players read, understand, and comply with all T&C's before depositing!

    I don't like to insult people here, but I think FugLac was rather foolish because either:
    a) he did not read all the T&C's before depositing.
    b) he knew the T&C's but decided to 'risk it', rather than checking with you first if it was OK to use someone else's computer.
    (I also can not understand why someone would take a tiny $150 bonus on a $500 deposit and then wager up to $100 per hand! But that's another issue).

    We don't know all the facts of this case - if FugLac actually was opening multiple accounts to 'abuse' a bonus, then he deserves what he gets. But in my country people are innocent until proved guilty!

    But the main grievance point here is the double standards that make it a win-win position for the casino.
    If FugLac had been unlucky and lost $450 of his deposit, then decided to call it a day and withdraw his remaining $50, would you then have checked his validity and said "Hold on - you can't play with the bonus because you've used the same computer as another account - here's your $500 back"?
    I think not. (If I am wrong, I retract most of my comments about iNetBet)

    That's what pee's players off - you allow them to make their deposit, give them the bonus, and then afterwards apply one rule when they lose, but a different rule when they win. :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2005
  38. Sep 1, 2005
  39. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    I agree very strongly with what KasinoKing has written.


    I fully understand why you take steps to prevent being hit by massive bonus fraud. There are some things about this particular case though that suggest that bonus fraud was not the OP's intention.

    1) The two accounts registered under the same IP were not used in quick succession, but rather many months apart. Someone trying to defraud you would open 2 or more accounts over a much shorter timeframe until they hit a big score.

    2) The fact that there are only 2 accounts from this IP makes the OP's story very plausible. I realize that the existence of only two accounts doesn't preclude bonus fraud, as its possible that it just happened that the big score came on the 2nd account. However, the OP's story fits with the circumstances.

    3) There are FAR FAR FAR better bonuses out there for fraudsters to take advantage of. If I had my heart set on using multiple identities to defraud a casino ... iNetBet would be at the bottom of my list. The wagering requirement and game restrictions on your bonuses give an advantage player an extremely low expectation. I can guarantee that no intelligent bonus abusers are targeting you.


    I understand that the OP broke the letter of you T&C. But I think it's extremely unlikely given the above that he is a bonus abuser. I don't think the spirit of your T&C is intended to deny people like him his winnings.

    The big question for me is ... if he lost his deposit, would you have given it back to him, invoking your 1 IP per account clause? I'm assuming that you noticed the duplicate IP during the cashout processing. So I'll further assume that had he lost his deposit, he wouldn't have had it refunded. That puts the player in a lose lose situation. My assumption could be completely wrong however.
     

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