Inetbet being unreasonable

mitchy11

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Location
germany
Hi,

What do you all think of this scenario?

I registered at Inetbet. I heard they were a fine establishment. I claimed their first deposit coupon YYR88. I deposited $300. This is an after-wager bonus meaning I never receive any bonus funds upfront. Only after I finish the wagering do I receive a bonus. I played a bit and lost $105 of my own funds. I decided I did not want to finish the wagering to receive a bonus.

I ask that the bonus be canceled an I be allowed to withdraw. Both the cs and the rep. here are telling me I need to finish the wagering for the bonus. I replied I have not been given any bonus, don't want any bonus and have lost some of my own funds.

The rep. has been factually incorrect about this a few times, claiming I am trying somehow to take advantage of them by playing a bit, winning and then withdrawing. I have not won in fact. I have lost some of my own money but this seems to have eluded them.


Is this normal and fair behavior? I did not take any of their bonus funds. I never received any of their bonus funds. I played and lost my own funds. I now want to cancel the after-wager bonus that I never received. All I want is my own $195 back.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
Well...that sounds like bs to me, since their T&C's clearly says that :

quote:
If coupon is applied to larger deposits coupon will become void. (amended Feb 2008)
/quote.

So actually you didn't request a bonus ... or rather your request for a bonus became void, because you deposited $300.
So they should just give you your remaining money back imo.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Mitchy11,

Just two questions. In the cashier section, did it state that the balance was withdrawable. If not, what were the wagering requirements stated there.
 

mitchy11

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Location
germany
Hi chuchu,

All the balance is shown as withdrawable. There are no wager requirements shown. There never were because I never received any bonus. What do you think? Are they being unreasonable?
 

mitchy11

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Location
germany
Further, the rep. has said the reasoning for not allowing me to withdraw was because I was "up." I pointed out that I was not in fact up but down $105. The rep. ignored this correction. Instead the rep. responded:


-You claimed a bonus no diasagreement there.

-You now do not want to meet the wagering that you agreed to when claiming the bonus.

-The rules are very clear

-You will not be allowed to withdraw until you meet the wagering.


Huh? The rep. is acting as if I actually received a bonus and now don't want to meet the wagering. The rep. seems to conveniently forget the I never received any bonus, played with any bonus, lost any bonus or want this bonus.

Can anyone explain to me how I am gaining an edge on a casino by playing with my owns funds, losing them, and then wanting to withdraw my own lesser funds while forfeiting a bonus that I never received? I asked this if the rep. but again the person had no response.

It seems they are locking me in out of greed only.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
ok...It's been brought to my attention, by a rep on here, that my statement is incorrect, and I have to agree, after rereading the bonus part of their website.
Your bonus is NOT void, since you can get bonused up to a $400 deposit.
Sorry about that, and thanks to the rep, who kindly mad me aware of my mistake..
Now that also changes things, as you deposited and put in the code to get the bonus. Now since you lost some of your own money, you're saying you don't want the bonus anyway, and you want your (remaining) money back.
I really don't think they're being unreasonable, in asking you to keep your part of the deal. The deal is really crappy, if you ask me. The bonus should be paid before you wager anything, to NOT end up in a situation like this, imo ...I see you putting in the code in, for a bonus, as a contract, that before you started losing, you had every intention of filling your part, and the casino still have every intention filling their part.
It all seems a little weird, asking you to fill the requirements before you get the bonus...but there are a lot of weird things out there, and that's a different story, but you accepted to take the deal, so..... guess you're just gonna have to eat it.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
It seems they are locking me in out of greed only.


Lol...that's a funny statement...why the h... else would they ?
I'm afraid that's not only this casino, but every single one of them. They're businesses, and wanna drag as many people in, and make as much monnies as possible, in every way they can ( Bonusses being a pretty big part of that, judging from the amount of promotions they throw at us ).
 

mitchy11

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Location
germany
Lol...that's a funny statement...why the h... else would they ?
I'm afraid that's not only this casino, but every single one of them. They're businesses, and wanna drag as many people in, and make as much monnies as possible, in every way they can ( Bonusses being a pretty big part of that, judging from the amount of promotions they throw at us ).


Yes but in doing such actions against one person they may lose the custom of some others thereby actually hurting the business in the long run.
 

mitchy11

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Location
germany
ok...It's been brought to my attention, by a rep on here, that my statement is incorrect, and I have to agree, after rereading the bonus part of their website.
Your bonus is NOT void, since you can get bonused up to a $400 deposit.
Sorry about that, and thanks to the rep, who kindly mad me aware of my mistake..

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying but if you are taking their word for it then it is like taking a tobacco company's word that nicotine is not addictive. Have a look for yourself at the rules. I did.


Here is what is says about the bonus I took:

*Limitations for initial deposit bonuses:

*50% Deposit bonus: This offers applies only to your first deposit with iNetBet and your bonus will be credited to your account once the total of all your bets is twenty times your initial deposit. For example if you deposit $100 and play Tri-Card Poker at $10.00 per hand, you must play at least 200 hands ($2000) before you can redeem your full bonus.

Bonus must be turned over 20 times before cashing out. Maximum bonus allowed is $200.00.

Wagering requirements are increased to twenty five times for Video Poker, thirty times deposit and bonus for all play on War and Multi-Hand Video Poker and sixty times for all Blackjack and 21 related games (amended 2nd Oct 2006). All wagering must be completed prior to any withdrawal being made.


As you can see it says BONUS must be wagered 20 times. It says nothing about my DEPOSIT needing to be wagered a certain amount before requesting a withdrawal of my deposit only. Their own rules say that once you get the bonus it must be wagered a certain amount of times before withdrawing. They mention nothing about not being able to withdraw your deposit while forfeiting the bonus. I agree that if I had actually receive a bonus I would be bound by the terms. I did not though.


Some will no doubt point to the last sentence which says, "All wagering must be completed prior to any withdrawal being made." However, it's placement within the paragraph about the wagering AFTER the bonus is received will lead many readers to think it applies ONLY to the bonus. I never had any bonus and it is not applicable to me.


The rep. is now hiding under the "rules are rules" barrier. But in this case the rules lean toward my side of things I think not the casinos. First the rep. said I could not have my deposit back because I was up. I proved otherwise. Then the rep. said I could not have my deposit back because I would gain an advantage. I asked exactly how that would be and received no reasoning. Now the rep. says "the rules are the rules." What rules? I have shown the rules are ambiguous at best and if read strictly actually lean toward me.

A casino can't declare that a player abide by the rules when the rules don't pertain.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
In the true spirit of a contract, there must be consideration from both sides. The act of claiming the bonus through a code is not consideration but the deposit is. This is now complicated because the wagering must be completed before the bonus is given. Before the wagering is complete, the casino does not need to give the bonus so in all fairness, if the wagering has not been completed the player should not be bound to finish them especially since there is no loss or consideration on the casino's part. Put it in another way, if the casino has not fulfilled the part of the deal, why should the player? It is all future tense and tilted favorably in favour of the casino.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is an apalling deal:eek:

20x is virtually IMPOSSIBLE at RTG, and it is unlikely it would be completed before going bust. Worse still, going bust does NOT even get you the bonus, you have to deposit again and complete the WR, and THEN even when you get the bonus you have another near impossible WR to even get your money back.

Far better to deposit without this offer, and then use the newsletter codes and Tempting Tuesday offers as a regular player.
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
Wish some of the casinos would change the rules for us regulars on bonuses also. I mean was it prime casino at one time had 80x playthrough. Also seen a few others i read and think are you kidding me playthrough 20x deposit and bonus cashout is 5 times your deposit not even worth going in there if you have to jump through hoops to get a few min longer play time you may as well deposit at one of the better online casinos with no bonus if you double your money cashout the better ones are just 24 hours to pay you in.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Wish some of the casinos would change the rules for us regulars on bonuses also. I mean was it prime casino at one time had 80x playthrough. Also seen a few others i read and think are you kidding me playthrough 20x deposit and bonus cashout is 5 times your deposit not even worth going in there if you have to jump through hoops to get a few min longer play time you may as well deposit at one of the better online casinos with no bonus if you double your money cashout the better ones are just 24 hours to pay you in.

Prime have just announced here that they have lowered WR from 80x to the MG standard of 30x. They have also changed the weightings to include more games.

More directly related to this case is a discussion about Virgin casino and a signup bonus which is also granted after meeting WR on a deposit. There are two differences though, the Virgin bonus has no further WR once it has been released, unlike the iNetBet one, and players can choose to cancel the bonus early, and just not get it, if they feel they are on an unlucky run.

iNetBet had a similar post wager offer for regular players, and I had to deposit twice to make it through, but won overall at the end of it, and was paid quickly. It exposed a problem with the RTG cashier though, as the WR is not tracked for these reward type bonuses, and players cannot simply visit the cashier to see how much more WR is needed. RTG also does not allow the use of another coupon while there is still WR to complete from the first.
RTG may have fixed this, because a new bug has been introduced into the cashier where WR is not zeroed out when a player reached a zero balance. When further deposits are made, the WR can remain, although the balance shows as withdrawable. The worst effect of this ghost WR is that it prevents the use of another coupon. CS can easily reset WR in these cases, but it means having to ask. Club World is also beset by this problem, along with pretty much every MG casino:rolleyes:

Perhaps we need a new annual Casinomeister award, most annoying casino software bug:D
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This bug should now be cleared, because even 2 weeks ago, this error doesn't appear anymore, at least on iNetBet!

I have not been able to test this as I have a broken game on iNetBet. I have never had this before, and I suspect it may have something to do with the cashier bug, which itself seems to have crept in with the recent addition of new games.
Most likely, RTG were trying to fix the problem with after wager bonuses not being tracked, but somehow screwed this up.

I have decided to wait till I get a lobby update triggered, and then test for the bug having been fixed. RTG have let me down though, they used to have "a new lobby is available" pretty much daily (or so it seemed), but it now never seems to do this.
 

Kenny Lingus

Tard Counter
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Near Chicago, Illinois
The rep. has been factually incorrect about this a few times, claiming I am trying somehow to take advantage of them by playing a bit, winning and then withdrawing. I have not won in fact. I have lost some of my own money but this seems to have eluded them.

Is this normal and fair behavior? I did not take any of their bonus funds. I never received any of their bonus funds. I played and lost my own funds. I now want to cancel the after-wager bonus that I never received. All I want is my own $195 back.

All the balance is shown as withdrawable. There are no wager requirements shown. There never were because I never received any bonus. What do you think? Are they being unreasonable?

Further, the rep. has said the reasoning for not allowing me to withdraw was because I was "up." I pointed out that I was not in fact up but down $105. The rep. ignored this correction. Instead the rep. responded:

-You claimed a bonus no diasagreement there.

-You now do not want to meet the wagering that you agreed to when claiming the bonus.

-The rules are very clear

-You will not be allowed to withdraw until you meet the wagering.

Huh? The rep. is acting as if I actually received a bonus and now don't want to meet the wagering. The rep. seems to conveniently forget the I never received any bonus, played with any bonus, lost any bonus or want this bonus.

Can anyone explain to me how I am gaining an edge on a casino by playing with my owns funds, losing them, and then wanting to withdraw my own lesser funds while forfeiting a bonus that I never received? I asked this if the rep. but again the person had no response.

It seems they are locking me in out of greed only.

The rep. is now hiding under the "rules are rules" barrier. But in this case the rules lean toward my side of things I think not the casinos. First the rep. said I could not have my deposit back because I was up. I proved otherwise. Then the rep. said I could not have my deposit back because I would gain an advantage. I asked exactly how that would be and received no reasoning. Now the rep. says "the rules are the rules." What rules? I have shown the rules are ambiguous at best and if read strictly actually lean toward me.

A casino can't declare that a player abide by the rules when the rules don't pertain.

In the true spirit of a contract, there must be consideration from both sides. The act of claiming the bonus through a code is not consideration but the deposit is. This is now complicated because the wagering must be completed before the bonus is given. Before the wagering is complete, the casino does not need to give the bonus so in all fairness, if the wagering has not been completed the player should not be bound to finish them especially since there is no loss or consideration on the casino's part. Put it in another way, if the casino has not fulfilled the part of the deal, why should the player? It is all future tense and tilted favorably in favour of the casino.

Yes, absolutely, Inetbet is acting unfairly, especially for a CM accredited casino. Additionally, the rep you are dealing with seems to be saying whatever they can in order to justify the casino's actions. My favorite is "The rules are very clear" when they obviously are not, especially when you consider that the software indicates that the entire balance is withdrawlable.

Of a more "global" concern is the fact that they are trying to lock-in players by accepting a bonus, when in fact they don't even have to provide the bonus if you lose your stake before wagering your deposit 20 times through!!! This "bonus" is designed to lock in the player, but not necessarily the casino. Talk about having it both ways!!!

Casinomeister, IMO you need to either make Inetbet stop this aggregious bonus system or exclude them from the accredited list. This just has to be unacceptable to anybody with standards!!!

Makes me glad I swore off R(igged)T(oo)G(ood) casinos, though!
 
Last edited:

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Casinomeister, IMO you need to either make Inetbet stop this aggregious bonus system or exclude them from the accredited list. This just has to be unacceptable to anybody with standards!!!

It's not our business to be _telling_ the casino anything. We can point out to them something that we feel is unclear or inappropriate but that's a negotiation not a dictation of terms.

Furthermore I don't see that INetBet's position here warrants the level of furor that the OP is attempting to create. While I won't disagree that I would have found the terms of the bonus unattractive, and I would not have participated in it, the OP obviously felt differently when they entered the bonus code in order to participate in that bonus offer.

As to the placement of "All wagering must be completed prior to any withdrawal being made" I think one can safely assume that it _does_ apply to you if you are participating in that bonus, whether it comes a line in the paragraph sooner or later.

If it were me reading those terms and I read "Bonus must be turned over 20 times before cashing out" I would take the amount of the bonus involved, $150 in this case if I've read the OP's statements correctly, multiply that by the WR and that would tell me how much I needed to wager. The fact that I don't actually receive the bonus until after I've done so is ... unappealing (to me) but as stated, obviously the OP thought otherwise.

In my opinion there's a lesson behind this which many players would like to avoid: it's called personal responsibility. If you agree to participate in a bonus offer then it's pretty safe to assume that the terms of the bonus _will_ apply to you. It's very simple: you read the terms and you say "this applies to me". To later start sifting through those terms in order to attempt to reinterpret them to your advantage -- no matter how creative you need to get to do so -- is not very sporting. More importantly, it's generally not going to get you very far.

So far in this case I don't see where INetBet is at fault. I personally wouldn't have participated in this particular bonus, and I generally don't like bonuses that are structured this way, but that's not a condemnable offense on their part.

Frankly the bottom line for me here is: where's the beef? Making sushi out of the bonus terms is not a legitimate complaint, especially when you voluntarily signed up for those terms in the first place.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Oh, this thread is still here. Just one question for Mitchy 11. Did it state in the terms and conditions for this bonus what the status would be if you did not complete the wagering requirements?
 

Kenny Lingus

Tard Counter
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Near Chicago, Illinois
It's not our business to be _telling_ the casino anything.....

....So far in this case I don't see where INetBet is at fault....

....Frankly the bottom line for me here is: where's the beef?

Wow! With a subtitle "Casino Watchdog and Player Advocate since 1998" on the home page of this website, I thought that this was an operation that stuck up for the players in situations like this.

But, "Where's the beef?", you ask...

1) First of all, the casino's Rep stated a different reason for the denial of the withdrawl, only falling back on "You now do not want to meet the wagering that you agreed to when claiming the bonus" when the player pointed out that the initial reasoning was not correct.

2) Second of all, IMO, the wording of the T&C is confusing. It can be read both ways. My question to you, Max, is this: Why is it fair for a casino to "lock" a player into terms of a bonus before they are required to pay any bonus to the player? This is especially one-sided if the player has never played at the casino before, as it is in this case.

Inetbet's policy here is basically "Come try us out and we'll give you a 50% bonus!!!! (yeahhh!) However, that bonus might be hard to get as you might not be able to clear the 50% wagering on just you initial deposit. But if you find that you don't like our site and want to quit before you reach the required wagering to receive the bonus, TOO BAD, as your entire deposit will be locked-in until and unless you first are able to wager enough to receive the bonus, and then wager enough to redeem it." If this is what the T&C said, I would not argue, but it didn't even come close to this admission.

So my second question, Max, is: Do you think that it is OK for a casino to be vague, or at least extremely non-explicit, when setting up the terms of a bonus? Remember, that this "agreement" has uni-lateral terms, which should favor the non-writing party should any part be considered unclear.

3) Per the player, the casino software indicates that the entire remaining balance is withdrawlable. Sounds to me like Inetbet is a litle confused by it's own promotion, too.

4) Finally, this is a new player to Inetbet. Why woulnd't they be satified with getting $105 of the player's money, and to just let them go? We're talking about a refund of $195, peanuts to a casino of Inetbet's size. Personally, I hope they lose waaaay, waaaaaay more than $195 in potential bets from others who now think twice about depositing at their site. I would serve them right for all of this bullying.

One last comment. As far as your statement "It's not our business to be _telling_ the casino anything.....", I'm confused as to what responsibility a casino has once it is allowed to be put on the accredited list. Should it not have to live up to some standards, or potentially be yanked from the list? I'm guessing the traffic that they receive from being on said list would be enough to repay that $195 many times over in just a day or two, no?

C'mon guys, stand up for what is fair!
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Wow! With a subtitle "Casino Watchdog and Player Advocate since 1998" on the home page of this website, I thought that this was an operation that stuck up for the players in situations like this...
Sure, but players need to understand that they need to act responsively and abide by terms and conditions that they agree to when accepting a bonus. That is what Max was getting at.

What's the problem? You don't like the terms? Fine, then don't accept the bonus.

Bonuses are not obligatory - if you find yourself at odds against them, then stop using them.
 
Top