iNetBet again

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greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
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:eek:

WOW! It is truly ridiculous and I will NEVER trust InetBet after these last few thefts on their part.

Basically, they are claiming fraud....buuuuuuut the player can produce any and all documents and didn't use a bonus.
At this point then InetBet can just call any winner a fraud and keep all winnings and deposits. How does this mess of a casino keep its accredited rating? That is the big question. They are openly stealing from players. Fraud? It would be the worst fraudster in the history of all fraudsters as they are apparently too stupid to even use a bonus or have an advantage in any way. If a person just wants to gamble their money at a casino then they would just do it as themselves and not a fake account.
It is beyond clear that Inet is just plain stealing money. It is disgusting to see.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Greasemonkey,

I think that the title of this thread is a little harsh considering that none of us knows anything about this except what has been posted at Gambling Grumbles. While I am not siding with either the player or InetBet, I don't think we can state for a fact that INetBet is wrong or that the player is wrong.

Unless the player decides to PAB here and let Maxd and CM hash it out, we will never know.
 

cdomi66

Registered
When they are saying a player is part of a fraud ring...are they saying bonus abusers? or do they have some sort of proof they are using stolen cc's or something?

I don't understand if the player is vip at MB etc (so security cleared thru them), isn't using bonus for advantage play...how the hell are they fraudulent?
 

bb28

Meister Member
I don't have a clue which side is in the right here and as someone else said we'll probably never know but greasemonkey you have an agenda with InetBet and really......it's getting a bit old. :(
 

gaydave

Banned User - complete PITA
When they are saying a player is part of a fraud ring...are they saying bonus abusers? or do they have some sort of proof they are using stolen cc's or something?

I don't understand if the player is vip at MB etc (so security cleared thru them), isn't using bonus for advantage play...how the hell are they fraudulent?

Exactly. The real fraud is stating that there is any fraud on players part when there is nothing to be gained. vip at neteller and stuff. Not using bonuses. yeah, real fraud going on there:rolleyes:
How many times can they get away with doing this before they are rogued I wonder? There was nothing gained by the player, they just won. inet is out of hand at this point.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
I don't have a clue which side is in the right here and as someone else said we'll probably never know but greasemonkey you have an agenda with InetBet and really......it's getting a bit old. :(
Well said. It is getting very tiresome.

Obviously greasemonkey knows more about the issue than he's letting on. Does he know the person concerned? Does he have access to iNetbets records? Given that he wasn't even the complainant, you would assume that he has new evidence to present. Why else post someone else's complaint?
 

Nate

Well-Known Member
webmeister
CAG
Well said. It is getting very tiresome.

Obviously greasemonkey knows more about the issue than he's letting on. Does he know the person concerned? Does he have access to iNetbets records? Given that he wasn't even the complainant, you would assume that he has new evidence to present. Why else post someone else's complaint?
With all due respect, this is exactly equivalent to the above post. Your constant defence of RTG is right up there with the aforementioned post.

My personal Opinion... I PRAISE Trustworthy Casinos.... I despise questionable operations. My posts reflect that thoroughly...

Nate
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
I don't have a clue which side is in the right here and as someone else said we'll probably never know but greasemonkey you have an agenda with InetBet and really......it's getting a bit old. :(
Well said. It is getting very tiresome.

Obviously greasemonkey knows more about the issue than he's letting on. Does he know the person concerned? Does he have access to iNetbets records? Given that he wasn't even the complainant, you would assume that he has new evidence to present. Why else post someone else's complaint?

My only "agenda" is being against casinos that steal from players. that should be more than apparent. The only thing that is getting tiresome is those that blindly defend casinos despite the obvious theft that they undertake against your peers on this forum. That is very tiresome and the only thing that has an obvious agenda.

As for the rest of nifty's accusations that I somehow know some inside information that does not even deserve a response and is the very reason that so many threads get derailed and people get angry. Derailing threads and changing the point of the thread is getting extremely tiresome also.
 

bb28

Meister Member
I don't have a clue which side is in the right here and as someone else said we'll probably never know but greasemonkey you have an agenda with InetBet and really......it's getting a bit old. :(
My only "agenda" is being against casinos that steal from players. that should be more than apparent. The only thing that is getting tiresome is those that blindly defend casinos despite the obvious theft that they undertake against your peers on this forum. That is very tiresome and the only thing that has an obvious agenda.

As for the rest of nifty's accusations that I somehow know some inside information that does not even deserve a response and is the very reason that so many threads get derailed and people get angry. Derailing threads and changing the point of the thread is getting extremely tiresome also.
To be FAIR you should have quoted MY WHOLE post in which I said, I don't know who is right.

I'm against casino's who steal from players too but that has not be proven in that case or the others and how many threads have you declared it's fact when you know no more than I do.

Conjecture is not a fact and you implying it as fact = agenda, imo.

Also it should be noted that I have enough faith in CM and what he represents here in that I feel confident he would boot their ass if he felt that they were defrauding players. Since you clearly don't feel that way, I wonder why you hang out here. :confused:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
This case seems similar to the Alice K case from earlier. Both are accusations where bonuses were not involved, but both players used bonuses on earlier deposits which they lost.

iNetBet considers both cases to be from the same fraud ring, and whatever they are up to, it appears not to involve bonuses. The advantage therefore isn't obvious, but there clearly MUST be an advantage gained through play without bonuses, else we would not have a major fraud ring doing it.

What they are up to seems to involve multi-accounting, possibly with more sets of ID than there are players involved. The IDs come from all over the UK, and in each case the player has made some "schoolboy error" when filling in the faxback form.

Both these players have managed to wring substantial gains from deposits without bonuses being involved. Mathematically, it makes no sense, since the EV for the fraud ring as a whole would be negative. The only way they could profit from this is if the money used to fund the accounts does not belong to them, and at some point will be reclaimed by the banks after iNetBet have paid some of the withdrawals.

It seems to suggest that bank or card details, along with personal details, have been stolen. These are being used, and the fraud ring is hoping to get the money through the casino and out to their withdrawal method, before the genuine cardholder gets their next statement and notices something wrong.

The only other profitable scenario is that they have managed to hack the casino server, and have been able to rig the games to pay out more than 100%. No bonuses would be needed, and they would be wanting to use as many accounts as possible for maximum benefit before RTG figure out what has gone wrong, and fix it.

This scenario actually took place in the summer of 2006 with Microgaming, where a glitch caused 2 of the classic slot games to pay more than 100%, but only from the FIRST feature on a brand new account. This attracted some serious multi-accounting, and bonuses were not claimed as to do so actually LOWERED the potential profit due to WR.

It is possible that whatever this lot are up to works best on a brand new account, and cannot be repeated again on the same account.

Could it be the Feature Guarantee slots?
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
With all due respect, this is exactly equivalent to the above post. Your constant defence of RTG is right up there with the aforementioned post.

My personal Opinion... I PRAISE Trustworthy Casinos.... I despise questionable operations. My posts reflect that thoroughly...

Nate
I think danielg from Winpalace and Ms Sloto might disagree with you there. I have no problem being accused of something if it is true, but you are simply incorrect.

What I defend is the casinos right to defend itself against fraud. The problem is that people with an anti-iNet agenda accept everything any complainant says, which is exactly what the fraudsters want - part of their MO is to drum up support by leaving out important facts and claiming that they are totally innocent.....and you are playing right into their hands.....which is your choice I guess, but if you are going to consistently defend every blow-in who has a gripe with iNet, without even knowing them (I assume?), you make it appear as if you have a personal vendetta and that your judgement is severely clouded. The source of your agenda is difficult to ascertain, although the only thing that makes sense is that you had similar experiences.
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Question....

With all do respect to the owners of Gambling Grumbles, and to the other members here at Casinomeister, Why are debating something that has not been posted here on Casinomeister? The way I see it, Gambling Grumbles is another site where players can go and complain and try to get things resloved. That should stay at Gambling Grumbles, it would be a different story if Louise came here and posted it, but she didn't.

Look, without stepping on anyones toes here, Gambling Grumbles has their own site, and they deal with things their own way. Just like Casinomeister does, but coming here and starting a thread with this title is to harsh. Annie is right. There are many ways to get your point accross, simply stating, "Check this out, found this today about Inetbet". Then just post the link, people would have still clicked on the link and read the same thing. Coming in here and stating that Inetbet stole money from another player is premature at best, because no one knows all the facts.

I know some members are passionate about casinos being honest and trust worthy, nothing wrong with that, but don't let passion cloud your judgement. My Father always said there are 3 sides to a story, one side for the person telling it, one side about the person the story is about and the truth. Without any evidence, (No evidence was provided by Louise or Inetbet) how can we tell who is right? Louise said she can provide evidence, but still hasn't. Until all evidence is revealed, from both sides, we should not question anyone or be here calling an accredited casino theives.

Just my 2 cents.
LH
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
LH,

I so totally agree. If a player brings their problems here, then by all means let's air it out. But something on another forum that we haven't a clue about, nope.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Inetbet links fraud to bonuses long-term ie even if you had not taken bonuses on a particular occasion and won you are still taking advantage of the bonuses you lost on earlier as they tend to even out. So, if you are part of a fraud ring and claimed bonuses incessantly you are likely to hit a big win or so the casino thinks.

The term fraud is loosely used and the industry must have a clearer definition of this term before labelling players as such. On this, I hope Bryan can make some progress at the EIG. What I hope will also be discussed is what steps players should take to prove their innocence though at the same time not disclosing how the casinos discovered the 'fraud'. Genuine players will be wary of being denied of their winnings if they win big thus resulting them to deposit in smaller amounts and betting smaller. Its a vicious cycle and in the end casinos will be hit hard. So clarification on 'fraud' will only serve to help the casinos in the long-term.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Inetbet links fraud to bonuses long-term ie even if you had not taken bonuses on a particular occasion and won you are still taking advantage of the bonuses you lost on earlier as they tend to even out. So, if you are part of a fraud ring and claimed bonuses incessantly you are likely to hit a big win or so the casino thinks.

The term fraud is loosely used and the industry must have a clearer definition of this term before labelling players as such. On this, I hope Bryan can make some progress at the EIG. What I hope will also be discussed is what steps players should take to prove their innocence though at the same time not disclosing how the casinos discovered the 'fraud'. Genuine players will be wary of being denied of their winnings if they win big thus resulting them to deposit in smaller amounts and betting smaller. Its a vicious cycle and in the end casinos will be hit hard. So clarification on 'fraud' will only serve to help the casinos in the long-term.
Well I think most people (who don't have a beef with iNet or casinos in general) would accept that what casinos refer to as "fraud" isn't necessarily fraud in the legal sense (cue Vinylweatherman Q.C.), it is a "catch-all" description of any activity which is contrary to the terms and conditions of the casino, specific to bonuses or in general. I think it is used for want of a better general description. I also think most people have a pretty good idea of what the term "fraud" means when it comes to online casinos.....it is pretty much anything that an honest, diligent and legitimate player would not do i.e multi accounts, ID fraud rings, claiming bonuses multiple times etc.

In other words, the everyday legitimate player who just deposits and plays and keeps within the rules, which in most cases are based on common sense, has nothing to fear from legitimate operators (e.g. iNetbet, 32Red, Club World...I've never seen an honest legitimate player ripped off by any of these casinos). It's pretty obvious to everyone, including the casinos, who these legitimate players are, hence it is also pretty obvious when someone tries to pull a fast one....they are also easy to spot because they constantly want the casino to reveal more information about fraud cases, so that they can better hone their craft, or assist their associates in doing the same. I'm sure there are members here doing it right now...I don't know who they are, but the law of averages says they will be around, but they all end up being caught in the end.

It would be nice to have a clear definition of "fraud", but I think there are just too many specific permutations.
 

daveboz

Banned User
As i said: RTG is dead. Look at the Jackpotcapital case.
What's going on with Jackpot Capital? I did run a test at Slotastic friday and it is definitely rigged.

Still the question lies with who controls the casino? RTG or the particular casino you are playing at.
 

bb28

Meister Member
What's going on with Jackpot Capital? I did run a test at Slotastic friday and it is definitely rigged.

Still the question lies with who controls the casino? RTG or the particular casino you are playing at.
Your post has nothing to do with the actual topic but I'll bite, what exactly is a test run and how did you come to the conclusion that it's rigged?

It's been said that the casino itself determines what the rtp is and has 3 choices and that it's set on the back-end and it can only be changed by request with RTG and it's not something that is done on the fly. Of course that has been debated but still what is a test run and how did you come to the conclusion it's rigged?
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Your post has nothing to do with the actual topic but I'll bite, what exactly is a test run and how did you come to th e conclusion that it's rigged?

It's been said that the casino itself determines what the rtp is and has 3 choices and that it's set on the back-end and it can only be changed by request with RTG and it's not something that is done on the fly. Of course that has been debated but still what is a test run and how did you come to the conclusion it's rigged?
Test run = he played and lost.

We shouldn't be feeding the trolls though....
 
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