Inetbet - account has been closed.

[pobeda]

Anyone jumping into this thread at this point would think this is a casino spawned by Satan. It's not - it's actually a pretty good operation. It's the only US facing casino with no withdrawal limits. They process winnings on weekends. And their processing (on average) is less than a day. It would be nice to keep these things in mind when criticizing an operation so we can keep the discussion balanced.

I am sorry, but you misinformed here. They do not process on the weekends( I had problems multiple times because of that). They have most ridiculous limits on withdrawals( I per week per pay method and for pay my card $500 max)

Club world does not have limits and has card force for larger withdrawals, inetbet does not

 

[aceking123]

What iNetbet have done in this instance (regardless of closing the account - that's another matter) is take money from a players web-wallet account without the players permission or consent.[/QUOTE]

well there clearly was a mistake or error , if that had happened to me i would of just sent those funds back into there account , the player could of e mailed either way . cant realy blame inetbet for taking back the funds , doesnt mean to say inetbet should be on the rogue pit. but could of been handled far better but there you go

 

[ChillBill]

cant realy blame inetbet for taking back the funds

Using your rationale and this hypothetical...

You owe me $500.
Instead of asking for it back; which would be using common sense and manners, I instead decide to help myself to your wallet and use your credit card, to get a cash advance of $500.

Hey it's my money, right!

 

[Casinomeister]

...
What iNetbet have done in this instance (regardless of closing the account - that's another matter) is take money from a players web-wallet account without the players permission or consent.

They made an attempt to notify the player, right? If you were the casino manager, what would you have done? Just waited a few weeks to see if you'd get back an answer from the player? Or contact the payment processor immediately to retract the funds that were sent in error?

No one has yet come up with how they would have handled this realistically as a casino manager. The money wasn't the player's - it belonged to the casino.

 

[aceking123]

Using your rationale and this hypothetical...

You owe me $500.
Instead of asking for it back; which would be using common sense and manners, I instead decide to help myself to your wallet and use your credit card, to get a cash advance of $500.

Hey it's my money, right!

no not realy it depends on how honest your going to be , im neither stating the player is dishonest but clearly they new there was a error upon checking there balance within there e wallet simple as that , so why not send a e mail to inetbet , if they had done that & had it auto saved , then inetbet would of held there hands up to not getting the e mail etc etc

all boils down to trust ) both ways

 

[ChillBill]

They made an attempt to notify the player, right? If you were the casino manager, what would you have done? Just waited a few weeks to see if you'd get back an answer from the player? Or contact the payment processor immediately to retract the funds that were sent in error?

No one has yet come up with how they would have handled this realistically as a casino manager. The money wasn't the player's - it belonged to the casino.

Albeit this is curly issue but nothing justifies taking money from a web-wallet or any other financial (monetary) account, which does not belong to you.

And, I'm sure if the OP brought this matter to the attention of the

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they too would agree with my thoughts.

 

[Googobucs]

They made an attempt to notify the player, right? If you were the casino manager, what would you have done? Just waited a few weeks to see if you'd get back an answer from the player? Or contact the payment processor immediately to retract the funds that were sent in error?

No one has yet come up with how they would have handled this realistically as a casino manager. The money wasn't the player's - it belonged to the casino.

I don't have a problem with this at all.

I am more concerned with how the player was treated when he contacted the casino because he could not log into his account. This was an opportunity for the casino to finally make contact with the customer, investigate what happened in a mature way and then reactive his account if the evidence supported that the player was unaware and that there was no harm done. Simply an error that had been resolved. Instead, they simply kicked they player to the curb and said talk to the hand.

 

[dunover]

They made an attempt to notify the player, right? If you were the casino manager, what would you have done? Just waited a few weeks to see if you'd get back an answer from the player? Or contact the payment processor immediately to retract the funds that were sent in error?

No one has yet come up with how they would have handled this realistically as a casino manager. The money wasn't the player's - it belonged to the casino.

Indeed, but whatever their justification (it obviously was justified given the circumstances) it worries me that a payment method can be open to this action without consultation or assent from the account/Ecocard holder. No such thing as the 'direct debit guarantee' here.
I also remember the furore when Betfair after their monstrous Saturday promo mess-up managed to remove genuine winnings from player accounts via Skrill (or Moneybookers at the time) because they deemed the payments invalid after they messed the promo up.
This doesn't give confidence in my protection as a player regarding certain deposit methods.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I've highlighted a few comments here to try and put this in perspective. I think a number of people are making this a mountain out of a molehill. And before you comment on this, it would be nice to hear from those being critical on how you would have realistically handled this if you were the casino manager.



What the hell do you put in your tea to come up with this kind of rubbish? No one accused anyone of thievery. They simply closed the account. iNetBet chose not to do any further business with this player, and this is their right as a business. Maybe they had other reasons as well (plu-lease do us a favor and don't speculate on that ).

Anyone jumping into this thread at this point would think this is a casino spawned by Satan. It's not - it's actually a pretty good operation. It's the only US facing casino with no withdrawal limits. They process winnings on weekends. And their processing (on average) is less than a day. It would be nice to keep these things in mind when criticizing an operation so we can keep the discussion balanced.

The accusation came in the email they sent him after closing the account.

-----
Hi
I am afraid your account is closed.
It has come to our attention that duplicate payments were made to you.
Instead of letting us know of these errors you hid this fact and allowed this to continue.
I am afraid this is not acceptable behavior under the circumstances. You account has been closed.
Regards.
iNetBet Support
-----

Bolded are the parts where it goes beyond exercising their right to refuse service, and into the realms of accusing the player of intent to screw them over.

It is the accusation made over what is iNetBet's mistake that has caused this to become a mountain over a molehill.


What they SHOULD have done is inform the player that they were intending to retrieve the money mistakenly paid out thus:-

Hi,
It has come to our attention that a technical error has resulted in your last three withdrawals being paid twice.
We are going to retrieve these duplicated amounts to the total of $1419 from your EcoCard account.
You do not need to take any further action.

Regards,
iNetBet support

There is also some doubt as to whether there was a serious attempt to contact the player and allow sufficient time for them to do the right thing. EcoCard are even refusing to tell the player concerned any further details of what happened, but given that the action was taken a day after two of the three duplicated payments, it appears that a realistic effort was not made to contact the player and arrange the return of the funds. Given that the player's account was locked, there was no way they COULD voluntarily return the funds on the 8th.


The fact that they have closed the player's account alone suggests that iNetBet have rerated them as high risk, else they would be happy to have them carry on playing now that the problem has been corrected. The email clearly states that the account closure was because of this incident.

As well as email, which iNetBet knows full well is unreliable, what other methods did they use in attempting to contact the OP?

They could have phoned, or more effective in this case, used a lobby message that the OP would see whenever they logged in. This message could have stated what had happened, and invited the player to deposit the $1419 into their account and let the casino retrieve it. They could have temporarily disabled the coupon redemption function, or even the games (we know it can be done because Club World police bonus bans by blocking coupon redemption).

Better handling may even convince some of the other players where retrieval by the merchant has not been possible to voluntarily give the money back. If these players have been told their account is closed for deliberately not noticing the problem before iNetBet, they would have no incentive to go out of their way to get the money back to them. The penalty for not doing so is a closed account, but this has happened already, and it is highly unlikely that the decision would be reversed even if they gave the money back, so they may as well move on and keep it given that the industry is still very much "wild west", more evident when it's the player getting screwed over.

Worst of all, iNetBet just can't see what they have done wrong, so it paints a negative picture of how they think of customers. From a customer service point of view, it should be OBVIOUS how badly this has been handled, even if from a technical perspective (they have merely corrected an error, taking only what is theirs) they have done nothing wrong.

 

[K2C]

I've highlighted a few comments here to try and put this in perspective. I think a number of people are making this a mountain out of a molehill. And before you comment on this, it would be nice to hear from those being critical on how you would have realistically handled this if you were the casino manager.

I would email the player notifying him the payout was reversed, immediately after making the reversal. I would also make this email not accusatory, let alone insulting.

Alternatively, I would have contacted the player via phone.

I see no point in sending an email asking to send the funds back, then waiting for a few hours and quietly making a reversal.

 

[ChillBill]

If I send someone a bank wire transfer and I make a mistake, for agruement sake lets say I intended to send $500 BUT accidently added another zero, making it $5,000 sent. Neither I nor my bank can get that money returned. They sure as hell can't access the account and take $4,500 of it back.

In this case, I stuffed up (just like iNetBet did). My only hope... Contact the person I transfered this money to, on the hope, he/she is honest enough, to return what's been over-paid.

Maybe VWM raised this... we have no idea what time periods these events curtail. But I'm sure like myself, noone sits at their PC waiting aimlessly, on stand-by, just in case an email arrives from a casino. It's possible the OP wasn't aware of the double payments. There are any number of possible, valid and legitimate reasons why the player didn't respond to the casino. OR... Maybe this is iNetBet's operational policy when more than what's owed is paid. Just take it back without the account holders authorisation.

What I do know is, iNetBet (and EcoCard bears accountability here too), had no permission to accessd this players web-wallet account, period!

 

[shannyls]

I don't have a problem with this at all.

I am more concerned with how the player was treated when he contacted the casino because he could not log into his account. This was an opportunity for the casino to finally make contact with the customer, investigate what happened in a mature way and then reactive his account if the evidence supported that the player was unaware and that there was no harm done. Simply an error that had been resolved. Instead, they simply kicked they player to the curb and said talk to the hand.

Exactly. Taking the money back is not the issue for me. A bank would've done the same thing, but wouldn't have closed the bank account. I am just amazed that they closed the account because of their error, their mistake. And responded like the OP did something wrong. It was clearly only a day or two between the email and the taking back of funds. I don't check my emails everyday. This casino just treats its customers poorly and rudely. Simple as that.

 

[dunover]

If I send someone a bank wire transfer and I make a mistake, for agruement sake lets say I intended to send $500 BUT accidently added another zero, making it $5,000 sent. Neither I nor my bank can get that money returned. They sure as hell can't access the account and take $4,500 of it back.

In this case, I stuffed up (just like iNetBet did). My only hope... Contact the person I transfered this money to, on the hope, he/she is honest enough, to return what's been over-paid.

Maybe VWM raised this... we have no idea what time periods these events curtail. But I'm sure like myself, noone sits at their PC waiting aimlessly, on stand-by, just in case an email arrives from a casino. It's possible the OP wasn't aware of the double payments. There are any number of possible, valid and legitimate reasons why the player didn't respond to the casino. OR... Maybe this is iNetBet's operational policy when more than what's owed is paid. Just take it back without the account holders authorisation.

What I do know is, iNetBet (and EcoCard bears accountability here too), had no permission to accessd this players web-wallet account, period!

I agree with the sentiment, but unless fully availed of Ecocard's extensive T&C's you cannot be sure of that fact.

 

[chayton]

As far as refunding the overpayment, I doubt Eco would have given the money back unless they were obviously duplicate transactions - with the same transaction number etc. And the player did still get paid their legitimate winnings, so it's not like iNetBet was sticking their hand in the player's pocket and stealing from them.

If I worked at iNetBet and emailed the player with no response, I would have gotten on the phone and called them. It's possible that the player really DIDN'T know that they were being double paid - and it's possible that they didn't receive any email either, especially if it was a mass email sent to all the players affected.

That being said, we only have the player's word that they didn't know - maybe there's something else going on there.

Ultimately nobody's out financially, the player got paid and the casino got their money back. And any casino can close any player account for any reason they want. It might not seem fair, but it's in the terms of practically any casino you play.

 

[ChillBill]

I agree with the sentiment, but unless fully availed of Ecocard's extensive T&C's you cannot be sure of that fact.

Though, EcoCard is regulated.
PSI-Pay Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 (FCA register number 900011) for the issuing of electronic money.
FCA - fca.org.uk

EcoCard wouldn't be the 1'st company to place invalid clauses into their T&C's which go directly against consumer laws in the UK. More so, likely contrivene the rules; terms and operational regulations set forth by the FCA.

I personally can't see the FCA being ok with EcoCard (PSI-Pay Ltd), giving a 3'd party (in this case iNetBet) access to an account which does not belong to them, to freely extract funds from a said account, without written permission for the account holder.

If this is how web-wallets protect funds, then I think we all need to rethink were we place OUR money and who we trust it with!

 

[Finn]

Though, EcoCard is regulated.
PSI-Pay Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 (FCA register number 900011) for the issuing of electronic money.
FCA - fca.org.uk

EcoCard wouldn't be the 1'st company to place invalid clauses into their T&C's which go directly against consumer laws in the UK. More so, likely contrivene the rules; terms and operational regulations set forth by the FCA.

I personally can't see the FCA being ok with EcoCard (PSI-Pay Ltd), giving a 3'd party (in this case iNetBet) access to an account which does not belong to them, to freely extract funds from a said account, without written permission for the account holder.

If this is how web-wallets protect funds, then I think we all need to rethink were we place OUR money and who we trust it with!

This person lives in UK.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/metroplay-old.60710/

I have an outstanding dispute with Metroplay, and have been given the talk-to-the-hand treatment.

I saw they were not on Casinomeister and had not got round to a PAB yet. Now they are giving it a go I will submit my PAB this weekend if I have time.

They confiscated my winnings relying on a vague "bonus abuse" term, and even somehow managed to claw back £4500 which had already been paid into my bank account!!

So obviously transaction cancellation is not same as giving another person access to the account. I think UK banks are well aware of those regulations, and would not go along with transaction cancellation if that was against the regulations.

 

[Googobucs]

Though, EcoCard is regulated.
PSI-Pay Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 (FCA register number 900011) for the issuing of electronic money.
FCA - fca.org.uk

EcoCard wouldn't be the 1'st company to place invalid clauses into their T&C's which go directly against consumer laws in the UK. More so, likely contrivene the rules; terms and operational regulations set forth by the FCA.

I personally can't see the FCA being ok with EcoCard (PSI-Pay Ltd), giving a 3'd party (in this case iNetBet) access to an account which does not belong to them, to freely extract funds from a said account, without written permission for the account holder.

If this is how web-wallets protect funds, then I think we all need to rethink were we place OUR money and who we trust it with!

To give you perfectly valid example, I have funds from my pay check that get deposited to my credit union savings account every 2 weeks. A few weeks ago there was a payroll screw-up and they sent the funds twice. I happened to notice it and called payroll to alert them. Later in the day the funds were removed from my account. No one asked my permission, it was just done.

This is a bank, not some internet e-wallet, so I am quite confident that there are rules in place that allow this. I'm sure that somewhere in the fine print on some obscure document hidden in a mayonnaise jar in a vault on funk & wagnalls porch it says they can do it.

 

[ChillBill]

I'd like to point out an observation, a trend which I find rather disturbing.

A player makes a deposit via credit card and for whatever reason, receives a notice the deposit failed. Thinking he/she entered the wrong CCV #, they try again and this time the deposit goes through. A few days later the player accesses their online CC statement and realises they've been double dipped on the $100.

The above scenario has played out here (in CM Land) a few times and in every instance, the player is told DO NOT CHARGE BACK. Instead, contact the casino and work towards rectifying this issue. In most cases players do this but as the weeks roll by and thery're feed with more excuses, their window of resolution grows smaller and smaller to the point, where in some cases, they can't charge-back and the casino ends up $100 richer.

In the case of iNetBet, they've done exactly what players here are told NOT TO DO. Just saying... But that's what some may call double standards.

 

[ChillBill]

No one asked my permission, it was just done.

In Australia it wouldn't happen and given our banking governences are similar to that of the UK, it might be well worth the OP raising this issue with the FCA.

What the hell do you put in your tea to come up with this kind of rubbish?

Not agreeing but that's one hell of a funny statement/question

 

[Finn]

In Australia it wouldn't happen and given our banking governences are similar to that of the UK, it might be well worth the OP raising this issue with the FCA.

Or probably not, I just gave an example of Metroplay casino pulling a bank transfer cancellation on UK player, which probably required the collaboration of his UK bank, first post of this page.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/inetbet-account-has-been-closed.62381/

According to him, Metroplay

even somehow managed to claw back £4500 which had already been paid into my bank account!!

Meaning Metroplay pulled a bank transfer cancellation on him, which obviously would not have happened without collaboration of his UK bank.

 

[ChillBill]

Meaning Metroplay pulled a bank transfer cancellation on him, which obviously would not have happened without collaboration of his UK bank.

Maybe they (Metroplay) have used some cunning means (err excuse), which has enabled their processor to hoodwink the bank into complying. It wouldn't be the 1'st time a casino or their processor has falsified information. As and example... USA players and their credit cards, some casinos are fudging the item code. The player isn't buying electronics, a DVD or clothes.

Though it seems, for some casinos, the end justifies the means regardless if it's legal or not!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Maybe they (Metroplay) have used some cunning means (err excuse), which has enabled their processor to hoodwink the bank into complying. It wouldn't be the 1'st time a casino or their processor has falsified information. As and example... USA players and their credit cards, some casinos are fudging the item code. The player isn't buying electronics, a DVD or clothes.

Though it seems, for some casinos, the end justifies the means regardless if it's legal or not!

This is VERY odd. I was watching something on TV recently about how UK banks deal with errors. The case was a person entering the wrong sort code when making a bank payment, and the money disappearing into someone else's account because although the sort code was wrong, it pointed to a valid bank branch, at which the account number existed. The bank said there was nothing they could do other than try to contact the person who's account the money went to so that they might return it. The bank kept trying, and the other person just did not respond. The bank said they were unable to just claw back the money because of banking rules and regulations, and that if the other person refused to cooperate, all that could be done was to take them to court for the return of the money.

Given all this, it is VERY odd indeed that Metroplay were simply able to claw back a UK players' £4500 from their UK bank without either permission or a court order. If EcoCard is a UK company (I thought it was Canadian), they may also have to adhere to the same rules. It does seem that this is something that the FCA should be looking into, as according to the rules, it should not be possible.

In the case of Metroplay, it would not matter that the regulator sided with the casino, they would still have to go to court to get their £4500 back.

In these cases, the players would have a claim against their bank, rather than the casino, and if the bank should not have allowed it to happen, they would have to make good the loss to the customer and then try to get the money off the merchant. A claim against the bank is much easier to pursue, even if it has to go to court, so would be a better option in such cases than taking the casino to court.

Of course, in this case, iNetBet could easily show it was an error causing duplicated payments, and they would win the right to have the money returned in most courts.

The alternative explanation is that the bank in the case on TV was lying to the customer, and there WAS a way they could help by taking back the money paid in error.

 

[Googobucs]

The alternative explanation is that the bank in the case on TV was lying to the customer

A bank lying to a customer?? say it isn't so

 

[Jasminebed]

I am in Canada, same as the OP. I don't see anything wrong with reversing such glaringly obvious duplicate payments. I have three times in my lifetime had funds deposited in error to my bank account. One I noticed same day as it coincided with my payday, and was nearly an identical amount, from some else's employer. I notified the bank, and they were "Just don't spend it, I am sure it will get picked up at some point".

The other two times I didn't notice extra in my account since I keep track of what I have without checking my balance frequently, and only saw it upon reviewing my account statement and it had been corrected without any permission or notification to me. One of those two times was a duplicate payment of a direct deposit, the other was who knows what.

 

[bigjohn]

Question for Casinmeister

Have you ever tried to deal with the CS iNetbet offers?

How about Nifty29, have you ever tried to deal with these people?

I'm not talking about when they know who it is they are dealing with. If you had the help of a friend or relative opening an account where you could see what is going on and see how they deal with their customers from the outside I think you would be quite surprised.

If you deposit, play, and withdraw and don't run into any problems where you require support I'm sure everything will go smoothly.

But just give it some time and sooner or later you will need them to intercede to fix an issue and they will not be there and you will be left hanging for days or possibly even weeks. Sounds hard to believe right? This is one of the things players here are trying to tell you.

They do not respond to e-mails to support if you need assistance.

And then when you get disgusted they finish you off with an insult or the boot, or both. Meanwhile the spam e-mails keep rolling in. I got another one today!

Whenever another accredited casino gets picked on (3Dice being a good example) hordes of members come to their defense and basically beat back the complainer. Do you see that happening in this or any of the other recent iNetbet complaint threads?

The members are not beating this drum to raise your ire, they want you to know.

Fast payouts are great, IMO, poor CS throws that right out.