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Im sorry if this sounds familiar but Im guilty of winning

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by in2wishion, Apr 9, 2008.

    Apr 9, 2008
  1. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    Im sorry if this sounds familiar but Im guilty of winning, playing European Roulette, at Casino Tropez.

    I turned $100 ($50 deposit +$50 bonus) into $5000, bit of a grind since 24th February. Something about wagering requirements of $1200 before I could withdraw. For some reason Roulette did not count towards the requirements.

    Is this because its easy to win at Roulette and the other games that dont count? So when Id won $3600, I wagered $1200 on the Spin A Win (poor mans roulette) using my technique, only lost $48 because stakes increase in fixed increments with $100 max. Looked forward to spending the $2000 I withdrew. Happy to wait the four business days in case I wanted to re deposit. Got a phone call to check my card details, after the four days.

    Decided to withdraw another $1000 and got another phone call advising me that my initial deposit would be paid back to my card. What about the $2000? Oh no, you cant have that because you played Roulette and won with our bonus!
    Im now blowing my balance building complimentary points, $10 on every number every spin = $370.
    The max is $15 per number and I back the numbers my method picks for $5 so I can still win.

    I wonder if they will still let me convert my complimentary points (10063 @ 100 points =$1) into REAL money?

    Should I continue until my balance is zero or just give up?

    Expert opinions welcome
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Apr 9, 2008
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'd contact them and get word directly from the horses mouth on whether or not you can WD comp points. Get it in writing, not over the phone.

    As far as the $5k, you might as well forget it. It's clearly in their T&C that roulette is a restricted game, and if you play it, all winnings are voided...



    Why casinos don't allow roulette is beyond me. With a 5% HA they're bound to win money.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 10, 2008
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It is because this is a rogue Playtech casino. The rules are designed to prevent you from winning, as the game restrictions make no sense at all. They ALLOW Blackjack, far more "abusive" than roulette for this kind of bonus, and entirely within the terms, but even then, they would find a reason not to pay.

    Playing a restricted game with the SUB at a dodgy Playtech is asking for trouble, and only newbies should be making that mistake now.
    Forget what you read at those bonus whoring websites, these are old methods, and casinos have known about them for ages, and will void winnings given half a chance. These bonus sites have "vip" sections, and that is where the REAL methods are - although that doesn't mean that casinos don't already know about it.

    Microgaming under the "EZBonus" system is best for roulette fans. NO excluded games at most, and often only placing the entire starting balance on red (or black) is going to get your winnigs voided.

    NO Roulette system will win forever though, usually they have a small risk of MASSIVE ruin built in, such that 95% of the time you win a little, but the other 5% your losses are HUGE.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Apr 10, 2008
  7. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    Thanks for replies
    Today my account balances was $50 so I converted the cp into $100.63 and now have $150.63 to play Roulette without wr.Lets see if I can make $5000 again:cool:
    Watch this space
     
  8. Apr 10, 2008
  9. bwin

    bwin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Product Manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    hi

    regarding excluding roulette for meeting wagering requirements:

    some casino software allows the player to bet on black and red or odd and even at the same time (aka "even chance wagering" - it is also allowed in most brick and mortar casinos) - so on an European Roulette table you can easily wager a lot of money without running at high risk (the odds to hit a 0 are only ~2,7%) - this in combination with comp points or something similar can end up in a house advantage lower then zero (that's why it works for brick and mortar casinos - they don't have any form of cash back in form of comp points). so it is quite obvious that they as an operator therefore have to exclude Roulette, otherwise they would lose serious money.

    I hope this explains the "why" to you :)

    best regards

    Benjamin
     
    5 people like this.
  10. Apr 10, 2008
  11. Mr_Zoidberg

    Mr_Zoidberg Dormant account PABrogue PABnononaccred PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    The bar
    "You cannot beat a roulette table unless you steal money from it." Albert Einstein
     
    3 people like this.
  12. Apr 10, 2008
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This might explain the exclusion from WR, but NOT the voiding of winnings when playing Roulette "properly" with it's 2.7% House edge. To get 100 to 5000 involves aggressive betting on single number spreads.
    Even with the game included for WR, the 2.7% house edge will ensure that WR cannot be met before all the bankroll has gone, although it might be possible to beat this certainty by trying a combination strategy involving making few, and very large, even bets (red & black) and hoping zero never shows before WR is complete. because this is a PLAY bonus (non cashable), this would not work on it's own, but would have to begin with a single whole bankroll bet on one colour, or even a field 12 numbers. This will work if the player goes through a number of casinos, half will be busts, but the other half will yield wins enough for an overall profit.

    The strategy can be done with Blackjack, provided there is no term restricting big bets, and is similar, one starting bet with whole bankroll, then grinding out WR with many small bets. Only TWO blackjack games are excluded, normal Blackjack only has a weighting, so this could well be within the T & C, but STILL they wouldn't have paid, as they also have the "F U Clause", and would then deny winnings this way.

    The best way is to play their slots aggressively, and hope for a decent win, then reduce bets to a minimum and grind out on other slots. Playtech slots tend to be low variance, so a big stake is needed to get a big win, but you are likely to survive the grind after this.

    The 5 and 9 line slots seem best for getting the big win, and the video slots, such as Dr Love, great for the grind with the autoplay.

    For a 100 bankroll, try 5 or 10 per spin into the likes of Highway Kings or Silver Bullet, or even Golden Tour (5 lines). If you hit a big win, 100 to 200+, you can switch to Dr Love and grind out at 0.20 or 0.40 per spin.
    They would have quite a job voiding winnings from slots play, even with an FU clause, and would be considered rogue even for suggesting that one can "abuse" a bonus by playing slots (even though you can at a pinch;) ).
    Do NOT try this in GBP though, unless UK Resident, as they will get you on that, rather than "abusive" slots play.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Apr 10, 2008
  15. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    "To get 100 to 5000 involves aggressive betting on single number spreads."
    I don't think I did that :confused:
     
  16. Apr 10, 2008
  17. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    That doesn't explain anything. Bets on opposite outcomes could be prohibited separately like many casinos do instead of prohibiting Roulette completely. And since the bonus is non-withdrawable, this strategy in itself would give no winnings anyway. Reputable Playtech casinos state that "restricted games can be played but they do not count towards the wagering requirement", but these rogue casinos take all your winnings if you play a restricted game by mistake.

    How difficult is it to program a line of code so that if you go play a restricted game, you would get a pop-up screen warning that all your winnings will be void?
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Apr 10, 2008
  19. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    "Dear in2wishion, Thank you for choosing Casino Tropez. This is Todd from the Support Team, please be informed that we have blocked your account from receiving anybonuses. You would be able to play the games that you like without thewagering requirements. Have a nice day! With any more questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Casino TropezSupport Team 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Best Regards, ToddCasino Tropez"Where you are the Star!"" :rolleyes:

    Let battle commence! :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2008
  20. Apr 10, 2008
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Not hard at all. But then they wouldn't make any money.....:rolleyes:

    They know exactly what they're doing, and won't change a thing.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Apr 10, 2008
  23. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    :( Knocked out in the first round. :(
    First dozen went missing for 20 spins so using 1 2 3 4 6 9 13 20 30 45 67 101 151 227 340 staking @ $0.50 starting after seventh spin theyve got my $50 (wouldn't if still had the $2000 :D )
    Will now study all the free helpful advice and take full advantage of my $50 lesson.
    Thanks again for all replies so far
    :confused:(slowly getting used to the bells and whistles on this forum)
     
  24. Apr 11, 2008
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Actually, to be fair, once you've considered the exceptions and the cross-checking and the verifications and the this and the that, it's probably more like 1000 lines of code. (Software Engineer in a previous life)
     
  26. Apr 11, 2008
  27. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    Well, they still have been able to code pop-up screen with "You have no funds. Would you like to make a deposit?" :D

    That's a good additude. 50$ is actually small price to pay if you learn to play smarter!
     
  28. Apr 18, 2008
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    How about:-

    Dear Todd,

    Thank you,

    Could you now please block my account from receiving any deposits, so that I may play the games I like at another casino.

    Best Regards,


    .........................
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Apr 19, 2008
  31. in2wishion

    in2wishion Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    England
    "Chat start time Apr 12, 2008 4:34:44 PM EST
    Chat end time Apr 12, 2008 5:07:44 PM EST
    Duration (actual chatting time) 00:33:00
    Operator Katie T
    info: Thank you for contacting bet365 Live Chat. An advisor will be with you shortly.
    info: You are now chatting with Katie T.
    Katie T: Hello, welcome to Live Chat. How may I help you?
    In2wishion: are bonuses complusory
    Katie T: No they are not, you can be set to no offers.
    In2wishion: even on first?
    Katie T: Yes if you wish not to take part you can opt out.
    In2wishion: so i could deposit take no bonus
    In2wishion: and withdraw any winnings
    In2wishion: immediately?
    Katie T: If this is what you wish.
    In2wishion: it's just I don't
    In2wishion: understand most of the games
    In2wishion: and just like cards
    In2wishion: and roulette
    Katie T: Then you do not have to play with bonus.
    In2wishion: and i could deposit take no bonus and withdraw any winnings immediately?
    Katie T: Yes.
    In2wishion: thankyou
    Katie T: Would you like me to set that up for you?
    In2wishion: yes please
    Katie T: Ok, I will do this.
    Katie T: One moment please.
    Katie T: That has been done it for.
    Katie T: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
    In2wishion: no thankyou very helpful :)
    Katie T: No problem.
    Katie T: Have fun.
    Katie T: Thank you for contacting Live Chat. Please click on the Close button to rate the service you have received and to request a transcript of this chat if required."


    Deposit 100 current balance 150 Grinding away :cool:
     
  32. Apr 23, 2008
  33. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    What are you talking about.

    Every bet on the European roulette wheel has a house advantage of ~2.7%. I don't care if you bet one number, 5 numbers, or every number on the damn board. Betting red/black simultaneously doesn't change that. Show me one casino on the planet offering comps equivalent to 2.7% of your total action. There aren't any.

    The restriction doesn't exist to protect casinos from advantage players. The restriction exists solely to fleece players. Period.

    Casinos which allow blackjack to clear a bonus but disallow roulette either suck at math, are looking to steal money from ignorant players who claim bonuses without reading the terms, or more likely, both.
     
  34. Apr 23, 2008
  35. Duncan Disorder

    Duncan Disorder Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    UK
    I'm sure many people read the comment by the Bwin rep, and shook their heads in wonderment. It is the case that many casinos do not really understand the nature of the business they are in. On balance, I feel this is for the best...
     
  36. Apr 24, 2008
  37. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    I'm sure many people read the comment by the Bwin rep and just assume that he's telling the truth. Your average player here has next to no mathematical knowledge of the games he is playing. So when a rep says that betting red and black simultaneously is a no risk bet, they believe him.
     

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