Im sorry if this sounds familiar but Im guilty of winning

in2wishion

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
England
Im sorry if this sounds familiar but Im guilty of winning, playing European Roulette, at Casino Tropez.

I turned $100 ($50 deposit +$50 bonus) into $5000, bit of a grind since 24th February. Something about wagering requirements of $1200 before I could withdraw. For some reason Roulette did not count towards the requirements.

Is this because its easy to win at Roulette and the other games that dont count? So when Id won $3600, I wagered $1200 on the Spin A Win (poor mans roulette) using my technique, only lost $48 because stakes increase in fixed increments with $100 max. Looked forward to spending the $2000 I withdrew. Happy to wait the four business days in case I wanted to re deposit. Got a phone call to check my card details, after the four days.

Decided to withdraw another $1000 and got another phone call advising me that my initial deposit would be paid back to my card. What about the $2000? Oh no, you cant have that because you played Roulette and won with our bonus!
Im now blowing my balance building complimentary points, $10 on every number every spin = $370.
The max is $15 per number and I back the numbers my method picks for $5 so I can still win.

I wonder if they will still let me convert my complimentary points (10063 @ 100 points =$1) into REAL money?

Should I continue until my balance is zero or just give up?

Expert opinions welcome
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I'd contact them and get word directly from the horses mouth on whether or not you can WD comp points. Get it in writing, not over the phone.

As far as the $5k, you might as well forget it. It's clearly in their T&C that roulette is a restricted game, and if you play it, all winnings are voided...


7. Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all versions of Darts, Heads or Tails, all Video Poker games, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Pontoon, and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games. Bets placed on Blackjack contribute one third of their original value towards wagering requirements. In other words, the sum of the bets placed on this game is divided by three when calculating wagering.


Why casinos don't allow roulette is beyond me. With a 5% HA they're bound to win money.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It is because this is a rogue Playtech casino. The rules are designed to prevent you from winning, as the game restrictions make no sense at all. They ALLOW Blackjack, far more "abusive" than roulette for this kind of bonus, and entirely within the terms, but even then, they would find a reason not to pay.

Playing a restricted game with the SUB at a dodgy Playtech is asking for trouble, and only newbies should be making that mistake now.
Forget what you read at those bonus whoring websites, these are old methods, and casinos have known about them for ages, and will void winnings given half a chance. These bonus sites have "vip" sections, and that is where the REAL methods are - although that doesn't mean that casinos don't already know about it.

Microgaming under the "EZBonus" system is best for roulette fans. NO excluded games at most, and often only placing the entire starting balance on red (or black) is going to get your winnigs voided.

NO Roulette system will win forever though, usually they have a small risk of MASSIVE ruin built in, such that 95% of the time you win a little, but the other 5% your losses are HUGE.
 

in2wishion

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
England
Thanks for replies
Today my account balances was $50 so I converted the cp into $100.63 and now have $150.63 to play Roulette without wr.Lets see if I can make $5000 again:cool:
Watch this space
 

bwin

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Location
Vienna
hi

regarding excluding roulette for meeting wagering requirements:

some casino software allows the player to bet on black and red or odd and even at the same time (aka "even chance wagering" - it is also allowed in most brick and mortar casinos) - so on an European Roulette table you can easily wager a lot of money without running at high risk (the odds to hit a 0 are only ~2,7%) - this in combination with comp points or something similar can end up in a house advantage lower then zero (that's why it works for brick and mortar casinos - they don't have any form of cash back in form of comp points). so it is quite obvious that they as an operator therefore have to exclude Roulette, otherwise they would lose serious money.

I hope this explains the "why" to you :)

best regards

Benjamin
 

Mr_Zoidberg

Dormant account
PABrogue
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Location
The bar
Thanks for replies
Today my account balances was $50 so I converted the cp into $100.63 and now have $150.63 to play Roulette without wr.Lets see if I can make $5000 again:cool:
Watch this space
"You cannot beat a roulette table unless you steal money from it." Albert Einstein
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
hi

regarding excluding roulette for meeting wagering requirements:

some casino software allows the player to bet on black and red or odd and even at the same time (aka "even chance wagering" - it is also allowed in most brick and mortar casinos) - so on an European Roulette table you can easily wager a lot of money without running at high risk (the odds to hit a 0 are only ~2,7%) - this in combination with comp points or something similar can end up in a house advantage lower then zero (that's why it works for brick and mortar casinos - they don't have any form of cash back in form of comp points). so it is quite obvious that they as an operator therefore have to exclude Roulette, otherwise they would lose serious money.

I hope this explains the "why" to you :)

best regards

Benjamin

This might explain the exclusion from WR, but NOT the voiding of winnings when playing Roulette "properly" with it's 2.7% House edge. To get 100 to 5000 involves aggressive betting on single number spreads.
Even with the game included for WR, the 2.7% house edge will ensure that WR cannot be met before all the bankroll has gone, although it might be possible to beat this certainty by trying a combination strategy involving making few, and very large, even bets (red & black) and hoping zero never shows before WR is complete. because this is a PLAY bonus (non cashable), this would not work on it's own, but would have to begin with a single whole bankroll bet on one colour, or even a field 12 numbers. This will work if the player goes through a number of casinos, half will be busts, but the other half will yield wins enough for an overall profit.

The strategy can be done with Blackjack, provided there is no term restricting big bets, and is similar, one starting bet with whole bankroll, then grinding out WR with many small bets. Only TWO blackjack games are excluded, normal Blackjack only has a weighting, so this could well be within the T & C, but STILL they wouldn't have paid, as they also have the "F U Clause", and would then deny winnings this way.

The best way is to play their slots aggressively, and hope for a decent win, then reduce bets to a minimum and grind out on other slots. Playtech slots tend to be low variance, so a big stake is needed to get a big win, but you are likely to survive the grind after this.

The 5 and 9 line slots seem best for getting the big win, and the video slots, such as Dr Love, great for the grind with the autoplay.

For a 100 bankroll, try 5 or 10 per spin into the likes of Highway Kings or Silver Bullet, or even Golden Tour (5 lines). If you hit a big win, 100 to 200+, you can switch to Dr Love and grind out at 0.20 or 0.40 per spin.
They would have quite a job voiding winnings from slots play, even with an FU clause, and would be considered rogue even for suggesting that one can "abuse" a bonus by playing slots (even though you can at a pinch;) ).
Do NOT try this in GBP though, unless UK Resident, as they will get you on that, rather than "abusive" slots play.
 

Jufo

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
hi

regarding excluding roulette for meeting wagering requirements:

some casino software allows the player to bet on black and red or odd and even at the same time (aka "even chance wagering" - it is also allowed in most brick and mortar casinos) - so on an European Roulette table you can easily wager a lot of money without running at high risk (the odds to hit a 0 are only ~2,7%) - this in combination with comp points or something similar can end up in a house advantage lower then zero (that's why it works for brick and mortar casinos - they don't have any form of cash back in form of comp points). so it is quite obvious that they as an operator therefore have to exclude Roulette, otherwise they would lose serious money.

I hope this explains the "why" to you :)

best regards

Benjamin

That doesn't explain anything. Bets on opposite outcomes could be prohibited separately like many casinos do instead of prohibiting Roulette completely. And since the bonus is non-withdrawable, this strategy in itself would give no winnings anyway. Reputable Playtech casinos state that "restricted games can be played but they do not count towards the wagering requirement", but these rogue casinos take all your winnings if you play a restricted game by mistake.

How difficult is it to program a line of code so that if you go play a restricted game, you would get a pop-up screen warning that all your winnings will be void?
 

in2wishion

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
England
"Dear in2wishion, Thank you for choosing Casino Tropez. This is Todd from the Support Team, please be informed that we have blocked your account from receiving anybonuses. You would be able to play the games that you like without thewagering requirements. Have a nice day! With any more questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Casino TropezSupport Team 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Best Regards, ToddCasino Tropez"Where you are the Star!"" :rolleyes:

Let battle commence! :p
 
Last edited:

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
How difficult is it to program a line of code so that if you go play a restricted game, you would get a pop-up screen warning that all your winnings will be void?

Not hard at all. But then they wouldn't make any money.....:rolleyes:

They know exactly what they're doing, and won't change a thing.
 

in2wishion

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
England
:( Knocked out in the first round. :(
First dozen went missing for 20 spins so using 1 2 3 4 6 9 13 20 30 45 67 101 151 227 340 staking @ $0.50 starting after seventh spin theyve got my $50 (wouldn't if still had the $2000 :D )
Will now study all the free helpful advice and take full advantage of my $50 lesson.
Thanks again for all replies so far
:confused:(slowly getting used to the bells and whistles on this forum)
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
How difficult is it to program a line of code so that if you go play a restricted game, you would get a pop-up screen warning that all your winnings will be void?

Actually, to be fair, once you've considered the exceptions and the cross-checking and the verifications and the this and the that, it's probably more like 1000 lines of code. (Software Engineer in a previous life)
 

Jufo

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
Actually, to be fair, once you've considered the exceptions and the cross-checking and the verifications and the this and the that, it's probably more like 1000 lines of code. (Software Engineer in a previous life)

Well, they still have been able to code pop-up screen with "You have no funds. Would you like to make a deposit?" :D

in2wishion said:
Will now study all the free helpful advice and take full advantage of my $50 lesson.

That's a good additude. 50$ is actually small price to pay if you learn to play smarter!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
"Dear in2wishion, Thank you for choosing Casino Tropez. This is Todd from the Support Team, please be informed that we have blocked your account from receiving anybonuses. You would be able to play the games that you like without thewagering requirements. Have a nice day! With any more questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Casino TropezSupport Team 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Best Regards, ToddCasino Tropez"Where you are the Star!"" :rolleyes:

Let battle commence! :p

How about:-

Dear Todd,

Thank you,

Could you now please block my account from receiving any deposits, so that I may play the games I like at another casino.

Best Regards,


.........................
 

in2wishion

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
England
"Chat start time Apr 12, 2008 4:34:44 PM EST
Chat end time Apr 12, 2008 5:07:44 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:33:00
Operator Katie T
info: Thank you for contacting bet365 Live Chat. An advisor will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with Katie T.
Katie T: Hello, welcome to Live Chat. How may I help you?
In2wishion: are bonuses complusory
Katie T: No they are not, you can be set to no offers.
In2wishion: even on first?
Katie T: Yes if you wish not to take part you can opt out.
In2wishion: so i could deposit take no bonus
In2wishion: and withdraw any winnings
In2wishion: immediately?
Katie T: If this is what you wish.
In2wishion: it's just I don't
In2wishion: understand most of the games
In2wishion: and just like cards
In2wishion: and roulette
Katie T: Then you do not have to play with bonus.
In2wishion: and i could deposit take no bonus and withdraw any winnings immediately?
Katie T: Yes.
In2wishion: thankyou
Katie T: Would you like me to set that up for you?
In2wishion: yes please
Katie T: Ok, I will do this.
Katie T: One moment please.
Katie T: That has been done it for.
Katie T: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
In2wishion: no thankyou very helpful :)
Katie T: No problem.
Katie T: Have fun.
Katie T: Thank you for contacting Live Chat. Please click on the Close button to rate the service you have received and to request a transcript of this chat if required."


Deposit 100 current balance 150 Grinding away :cool:
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
hi

regarding excluding roulette for meeting wagering requirements:

some casino software allows the player to bet on black and red or odd and even at the same time (aka "even chance wagering" - it is also allowed in most brick and mortar casinos) - so on an European Roulette table you can easily wager a lot of money without running at high risk (the odds to hit a 0 are only ~2,7%) - this in combination with comp points or something similar can end up in a house advantage lower then zero (that's why it works for brick and mortar casinos - they don't have any form of cash back in form of comp points). so it is quite obvious that they as an operator therefore have to exclude Roulette, otherwise they would lose serious money.

I hope this explains the "why" to you :)

best regards

Benjamin

What are you talking about.

Every bet on the European roulette wheel has a house advantage of ~2.7%. I don't care if you bet one number, 5 numbers, or every number on the damn board. Betting red/black simultaneously doesn't change that. Show me one casino on the planet offering comps equivalent to 2.7% of your total action. There aren't any.

The restriction doesn't exist to protect casinos from advantage players. The restriction exists solely to fleece players. Period.

Casinos which allow blackjack to clear a bonus but disallow roulette either suck at math, are looking to steal money from ignorant players who claim bonuses without reading the terms, or more likely, both.
 

Duncan Disorder

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Location
UK
I'm sure many people read the comment by the Bwin rep, and shook their heads in wonderment. It is the case that many casinos do not really understand the nature of the business they are in. On balance, I feel this is for the best...
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
I'm sure many people read the comment by the Bwin rep, and shook their heads in wonderment. It is the case that many casinos do not really understand the nature of the business they are in. On balance, I feel this is for the best...

I'm sure many people read the comment by the Bwin rep and just assume that he's telling the truth. Your average player here has next to no mathematical knowledge of the games he is playing. So when a rep says that betting red and black simultaneously is a no risk bet, they believe him.
 
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