I'm beginning to wonder...

[winbig]

I usually don't bitch about the randomness of online poker, but these two hands got me wondering...


1st hand at the table:

My QQQ beat out by KKK. Flop QKx - Both of us had PP.

5 Hands later:

679c Flop. I flop the nut flush - another player holds...guess what? 8Tc.

wtf?

I know the set is fairly common, but c'mon...those 2 hands so close to each other, and 2nd nuts both times?


Against the same player?

Maybe there is a "win" switch turned on for certain players, and a "lose" switch for others...who knows

It was low stakes omaha, so I could really care less...but this definitely clinches the deal on my not playing online anymore. I do better at live games.

There's actually a poker "tour" in my area that holds freerolls in bars/pubs/whatever. $100 first place, gift certificates for 2nd and 3rd. I've won 3 already in a couple months

www.riverchasers.com if anyone is in the PA/NJ/NY areas and would like more information. You get points if you place in the top 30% of each tourney. At the end of every quarter, they take the top 400 point holders and have a satellite. They take the top 40 from that satellite and send you to another tourney. The top 9 from there play in AC for a seat at the WSOP....Pretty cool


They also have an online tour going at FullTilt, but those are buy-in tourneys.

 

[tennis_balls]

that's some crappy luck, winbig. i don't think i've had two beats like that close together. when something like that occurs, I usually look up the other dude on sharkscope and am often consoled to see something like "kasino_king -23% ROI.....-2,2579". that makes me feel a "little" better.

that's just an example.....i don't know if anyone is actually using such an ID

 

[gerilege]

It was low stakes omaha...

That's tough, but in Omaha, 36 or 40 cards are dealt out, and each hand forms 6 two-card combinations, while in holdem only 20 cards, and each hand is only one two-card combination. So I think saying that such bad beats are twenty times more likely in omaha than in holdem is a reasonable estimation.

 

[tennis_balls]

ah....i missed that this happened in omaha.........that 1st beat is not at all uncommon in omaha......only a donk would cry "rigged" on that one. ....... tuff_fish would just shrug his shoulders and say "that's poker" after that hand

 

[Rusty]

I used to get beats like that on a regular basis after turning 20 into 500 on prima and cashing out.
I lost all in with KK 7 consecutive times(not hands ) and even lost when i flopped a FH.
Regular bad beats would be against the BB with hands like 88.
I would raise to try and take the hand maybe *4BB they would call and the flop would come like 567 rainbow. We would end up all in and they would have something like 48 or 34 or 67 but all the time not just now and again.
Over many hands I was losing to less than 10%ers maybe 4 out of 5 times all in (80%) it was really pathetic.
On the flip side when I first started playing I got pocket A's four times running!
What a crock of S***
So I only play freeroll now but get the exact same bad beats.
There are plenty of live tournaments now where luck comes and goes in a more random fashion
I am 100% certain MG/Prima poker has some kind of hidden handicap system which would obviously favour and protects new and poor players at low stakes and sit and go.
This makes perfect sense as no poker site wants the fish or new blood being chewed so badly they never return. More players=more money
THE END

 

[pokeraddict]

Omaha is my main game. These beats happen from time to time. Neither would qualify as a bad beat jackpot and neither is enough to raise a flag. Lose quads a few times and then the omaha game might be off. Keep in mind omaha is the mother of all river games.

 

[liquidsoap]

Been playing on bodog.
It seems there is one or two people who suck me out every time.
Heres a hand from today.
$400 PL OMAHA (3 handed)
liquidsoap dealt (BB) As Ac 5s 6c
Button folded
SB raises $8 to $12
liquidsoap reraises $24 to $36
SB raises $36 to $72
Hero Raises All in
SB calls
Small Blind shows Kh Ks 7h 6h
Flop
8c 9h 10s
Turn
Ad
River 3d
SB wins pot with a straight six to ten

Theres quite a few of those.
One involved me flopping the nut flush, slow playing it to the turn and him going all in only to catch a boat.

 

[liquidsoap]

I forgot to mention, my post is not a complaint.
It happens...
But it might be a complaint if I was not up $2500 in the last month there!

 

[Swede]

This one is a few weeks old and from my '1-outed' collection but still fun to look at. I should've known better than to dabble in a stupid NL game....

Seat 1: Stupid ($2311 in chips)
Seat 2: Retarded ($1044 in chips)
Seat 3: Donk ($2200 in chips)
Seat 4: Stinky ($4901 in chips)
Seat 7: The Greatest Player Ever ($2698 in chips)
Seat 8: Donator ($1788 in chips)
Seat 9: The Worst Player In History ($2233 in chips)
Retarded: posts small blind $10
Donk: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Greatest Player Ever [Qc Qh]
Stinky: raises $55 to $75
The Greatest Player Ever: calls $75
Donator: folds
The Worst Player In History: calls $75
Stupid: folds
Retarded: folds
Donk: folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 6c Qs]
Stinky: bets $165
The Greatest Player Ever: raises $310 to $475
The Worst Player In History: raises $1683 to $2158 and is all-in
Stinky: folds
The Greatest Player Ever: calls $1683
*** TURN *** [3h 6c Qs] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [3h 6c Qs Ac] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
The Greatest Player Ever: shows [Qc Qh] (three of a kind,Queens)
The Worst Player In History: shows [6d 6h] (four of a kind, Sixes)
The Worst Player In History collected $4736 from pot

----------------------------------------

Names withheld to protect these great players from autograph hunters and paparazzi....

 

[winbig]

Ouch

I think the poker area needs a thread named "Bad beat stories" I'm pretty sure that it would rival the "Screenshots that suck" thread. Anyone else agree?


ps: Why didn't you reraise preflop instead of just smoothcalling? Personally, I would rather not see a flop with QQ.

Moral of the story: slowplay kills

 

[Swede]

Aye, I agree. Against a thinking opponent and perhaps a wee bit deeper I'd raise. A cold call here though will induce a continuation bet and an excellent opportunity to CR/stack someone with AQ(before) or KK(after the flop). This did not happen but still, I think this is the way to play it.

Had it been deeper or 25/50, my default here would be a PFR to $250. The outcome could be the same but that's a different animal

Well, wish me luck in the nightly MTTs, gonna go for it!

 

[winbig]

So very true. It all depends on the how the others are playing.

Good luck

 

[KasinoKing]

When something like that occurs, I usually look up the other dude on sharkscope and am often consoled to see something like "kasino_king -23% ROI.....-2,2579". that makes me feel a "little" better.

that's just an example.....i don't know if anyone is actually using such an ID

Seems highly unlikely that any donk would use such a silly name...

....I am 100% certain MG/Prima poker has some kind of hidden handicap system which would obviously favour and protects new and poor players at low stakes and sit and go.
This makes perfect sense as no poker site wants the fish or new blood being chewed so badly they never return. More players=more money
THE END

Hmmmm.... a very interesting conspiracy theory....

I think the poker area needs a thread named "Bad beat stories" I'm pretty sure that it would rival the "Screenshots that suck" thread. Anyone else agree?

Oh no, please!
People discussing past poker hands which happen 100's of times every day is just seriously sad...
Whatever next - people posting screenshots of slots where they missed a mega-payout because just one of the symbols was just one spot out...?

I'm with Pokeraddict; I actually played a sit'n'go multi-table Omaha-Hi PL game with 27 players last night (actually, this morning! ) and and came second!

KK (beats AA every time!)

 

[Rusty]

Seems highly unlikely that any donk would use such a silly name...



Hmmmm.... a very interesting conspiracy theory....



Oh no, please!
People discussing past poker hands which happen 100's of times every day is just seriously sad...
Whatever next - people posting screenshots of slots where they missed a mega-payout because just one of the symbols was just one spot out...?

I'm with Pokeraddict; I actually played a sit'n'go multi-table Omaha-Hi PL game with 27 players last night (actually, this morning! ) and and came second!

KK (beats AA every time!)

Not so much a conspiracy as business acumen.
I am not in the business and I am not greedy and I am scrupulous and yet I have still thought of a guaranteed way for the sites to make more money.
Either I am a genius or it has already been thought of by people who's business it is that are less scrupulous and greedier than me.
I am no genius.

 

[pokeraddict]

....I am 100% certain MG/Prima poker has some kind of hidden handicap system which would obviously favour and protects new and poor players at low stakes and sit and go.
This makes perfect sense as no poker site wants the fish or new blood being chewed so badly they never return. More players=more money
THE END

Don't you think if Prima were rigging cards it would have been discovered by now?

You are right, there is a slight advantage if the cards were juiced. How would they do it though? Would they have to find weak players and have the software identify when these weak players needed rivers? There is so much to lose for any poker room, especially one the size of Microgaming, to do these type of things. I've played a ton of online and B&M poker and I just don't see it.

Keep in mind you are playing 3-4 times the hands online then B&M so you will see it all.

 

[Rusty]

Can you honestly say that in a freeroll for example the cards you see are the same as you would expect in a live game?
This "You see more hands" argument is totally irrelevant when you are considering stats and percentages.
I could write you a program tomorrow that could incorporate such a system it really is not that difficult.
There is a zero % chance of "MG/prima being found out" as it is impossible to prove as there is no independent access to the software.
They ask that you take it on trust that the game is completely fair.
The point is though that you are happy you are receiving a fair game and you see no reason to distrust them so you have no reason to worry.
I on the other hand have not had your experiences and do not trust them so I do worry.
Sincerely though, the very best of luck to you

 

[pokeraddict]

Can you honestly say that in a freeroll for example the cards you see are the same as you would expect in a live game?

I don't understand, are you saying your opinion is that the RNG is not the same for freerolls as it is for real money games? I think if you see odd things in freerolls it is only because so many people play like nuts because they have nothing invested and the overlay is often much less then $1.

 

[Rusty]

I don't understand, are you saying your opinion is that the RNG is not the same for freerolls as it is for real money games? I think if you see odd things in freerolls it is only because so many people play like nuts because they have nothing invested and the overlay is often much less then $1.

I am saying there is a hidden handicap routine embedded in the software.
Yes you do get peolple playing silly cards in freerolls and so there are bound to be more bad beats but you will notice a succesion of bad beats against the same players.This is why I say it is a hidden handicap system that protects the weak at low stakes.
I still play freerolls for fun and have just finished one with the exact same experience as I always have now with prima.
Absolutely true I just got knocked out by a guy who beat my QQ with 99 and then my straight to a higher straight(i did not have low end) and then I got AK on his BB and raised he reraised I flat called.
Flop KJ5 we end up all in he has JK.
These beats alone do'nt mean so much but when they happen all the time you have to think there maybe something else going on.
As I have stated playing low stakes I was consistently getting my money in with the best hand and being outdrawn on virtualy every occasion.
That is ok if you are talking 60/40 chances but they were often less than 5% and would catch around 80% of the time.
It was just silly so I stopped playing while I was still ahead.
I used to play 10 hours a day 3 tables on low limits and I could make a profit every Week without exception and did so for 4 months and then WHAM!
After that it was impossible for me to win over a Day never mind a Week.
Maybe I should have moved up the levels instead of making cashouts, who knows.

 

[pokeraddict]

I am saying there is a hidden handicap routine embedded in the software.
Yes you do get peolple playing silly cards in freerolls and so there are bound to be more bad beats but you will notice a succesion of bad beats against the same players.This is why I say it is a hidden handicap system that protects the weak at low stakes.

This is even more silly then accusing the cards being rigged at all limits. The house would rather keep the fish at higher limits alive because the rake is higher and the deposit fees are more. IMO the house has even less of a motive to rig the cards at lower limits. How does a house rig the cards anyway? They identify losing players and help them hit more flushes? I can't see how any house would do this and if they did it would easily be caught, especially at a Poker Tracker compatible site like Prima.

Poker rooms have been caught cheating before but when they do it has been that they are using bots as shills. No poker room (to my knowledge) has ever been caught rigging cards for weak players. The only way I could see it being possible is to create more flush boards and then it would even out wouldn't it so there would be no advantage?

 

[Rusty]

See you at the private tourney
We have rigged it by the way

 

[WAYLANDER]

Rubbish

To think that major poker rooms " fix " the cards is just plain rubbish !
I agree that sometimes it can feel like that, and poker has made me more angry more times than i care to remember.
But all these conspiracy theories about " beginners luck ", " losing after cashouts ", " poker rooms wanting more play" etc, etc, are all down to one thing...... variance and the way your own mind interprets it.
The facts speak for themselves..Poker Tracker or similar software woud certainly pick up on it, and what about all the online professional players that play for a living?
I myself have played online poker for 7-8 years and have consistently made profits month after month playing at a few different poker rooms at various limits and games, going by your theory the poker rooms fixed RNG should of kicked in years ago.
I have gone through my share of rough patches and bad beats, but i truly believe that it is just variance and no major software provider would risk their entire business on fixing the cards!

WAYLANDER

 

[winbig]

Geeze. What in the world did I start here???

To those that don't know me well, I wasn't serious when I was implying that online poker is "fixed/rigged/juiced". I just like to vent a little at times

 

[Rusty]

To those that do not know me well I was entirely serious about prima software not being entirely random
I like to vent a lot of steam all the time

 

[Pinababy69]

To those who don't know me well, I'm a crazy bitch who thinks she knows everything.

 

[cynthial]

Thelma nods her head up and down like a bobble-head.