1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

IGT Slot RTP List

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by TheLastCylon, Jan 29, 2012.

Tags:
    Jan 29, 2012
  1. TheLastCylon

    TheLastCylon Banned User - violation of rule 1.19

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Second star to the right, and across from the gas
    After my post about Net Entertainment's listed RTP's, I was directed by Kasino King to IGT. This is the information on their games that I was able to find.

    I was disappointed to find that only about 60% of the games actually have information listed. And the games that are listed have some pretty low RTP's. The median is closing in on two percentage points inferior to Net Entertainment.

    The RTP ranges confused me. I thought that slots operated on an RTP that was set during the creation of the game. It's a consequence of the game's math. How can a slot have a range?

    I averaged the RTP ranges to get a mean which I then plugged into the calculator.

    Best: 98.14% MegaJackpots Cluedo and Monopoly
    Worst: 92.52% Transformers
    Mean: 94.987
    Median: 94.97
    Mode: 94.98

    Slots-----------------------
    100,000 Pyramid: ___________________ 92.78-95.03% (93.91 mean)
    50,000 Pyramid: ____________________ No information
    Arabian Riches: _____________________No Information
    Banana-Rama Deluxe: ________________No Information
    Battleship: _________________________ 94.48%
    Bitten: _____________________________94.99%
    Cashino: ___________________________No Information
    Captain Quid's Treasure Quest: _________95.01%
    Captain Jackpot's Cash Ahoy: __________No Information
    Cats: ______________________________93.04-94.93% (93.99 mean)
    Cleopatra: __________________________No Information
    Cleopatra II: ________________________95.13%
    Cluedo: ____________________________No Information
    Da Vinci Diamonds: __________________94.94%
    Da Vinci Diamonds Dual Play: __________No Information
    Double Diamond: ____________________95.08%
    Dungeons & Dragons Crystal Caverns: ___94.94%
    Dungeons & Dragons Fortress of Fortunes: 94.50%
    Elvis- A Little More Action: ____________94.97%
    Elvis Multi Strike: ____________________97.30%
    Elvis Top 20: _______________________ No Information
    Enchanted Unicorn: __________________No Information
    Fire Opals: _________________________No Information
    Five Times Pay: _____________________95.10%
    Grand Casino: ______________________No Information
    Jeopardy: __________________________ No Information
    Kitty Glitter: ________________________93.51-94.92% (94.22 mean)
    Lil' Lady: __________________________94.98%
    MegaJackpots Cleopatra: _____________93.04%
    MegaJackpots Cluedo: _______________98.14%
    MegaJackpots Monopoly: _____________98.14%
    Monopoly Here and Now: _____________No Information
    Monopoly Multiplier: _________________94.95%
    Monopoly Pass Go: __________________No Information
    Monopoly You're In The Money: _______94.00-96.76% (95.38 mean)
    Monty's Millions: ____________________94.98%
    Noah's Ark: ________________________93.04-94.93% (93.99 mean)
    Pixies of the Forest: _________________No Information
    Rainbow Riches: ___________________ No Information
    Rainbow Riches Win Big Shindig: ______96.46%
    Siberian Storm: ____________________No Information
    Star Trek: _________________________92.49-94.99% (93.74)
    Super Hoot Loot: ___________________ 92.51-94.56% (93.54 mean)
    Texas Tea: ________________________97.36%
    Three Reel Hold Up: ________________ No Information
    Transformers: _____________________ 92.52%
    Treasures of Troy: __________________94.93%
    Triple Fortune Dragon: ______________ 94.97%
    Vacation USA: _____________________ No Information
    Vegas, Baby: ______________________ 95.02%
    Wheel of Fortune Hollywood Edition: ___No Information
    Wheel of Fortune Triple Action Frenzy: _No Information
    White Orchid: _____________________ 94.93%
    Wild Wolf: ________________________92.99-94.97% (93.98 mean)
    Wipeout: _________________________ 95.00%
    Wolfrun: _________________________ 94.98%

    I hope that this list helps.
     
    4 people like this.
  2. Jan 30, 2012
  3. Greigssy

    Greigssy Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Scotland
    I have always found their slots to be tight. Impressive looking and some fun features but can clean your balance out pretty fast compared to the other software providers.

    My favourite slot of theirs is Cleopatra but Cleopatra 2 has to be the worst sequel to a slot ever.
     
  4. Jan 30, 2012
  5. J.B.

    J.B. Dormant account webmeister

    Location:
    Internet
    A range means there are multiple configurations. For example, a Vegas casino might use a 95% configuration, whereas a casino with no competition might use a 92% configuration.
     
  6. Feb 1, 2012
  7. Bonkerjerks

    Bonkerjerks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Product Manager
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Hi all,

    I'm the Interactive Casino Product Manager from IGT. I'm not sure where you are looking, but all of our games list the long term theoretical RTP in the paytable. It is usually the last slide on the paytable. I can assure you that listing the RTP on our games is standard practice and I would be surprised if any of our games didn't list the RTP.

    J.B. is correct that the range usually refers to different RTP based on casino preference, juristiction, and other factors.

    However, one thing I'd like to make clear is that RTP never tells you the whole story on a game. In the short term, it is more often the volatility of the slot that you are really experiencing. To use Cleopatra and Cleopatra II as an example, it is interesting to note that Cleo II has a slightly higher RTP (95.13% vs 95.02%). However, Cleo II has a much higher volatility. This means that there are more drastic highs and lows. With Cleo, you win more often but a smaller amount. With Cleo II, you can have longer dry spells, but higher payouts when you do win.

    Some people like the easy ride, some like the more dramatic ride. It's all a question of what experience you are looking for. At IGT, we have slots that cater to all types of players.

    Hope that helps!
     
    7 people like this.
  8. Feb 1, 2012
  9. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Hello you,

    Yes, important point.

    Net Entertainment also writes something similar about their games:

    ....Pay-out is however just one dimension of pay-table design. Variance, hit frequency and distribution of winnings between base- and bonus game(s) are other factors to take into consideration. At Net Entertainment we have mastered the skill in pay-table design which is at the core of creating high performance games.
     
  10. Feb 1, 2012
  11. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    My fav IGT slot is Rainbow Riches (especially in slot arcades) although, unlike their online gambling cousins are restricted to a £500 jackpot for a £1 spin, I have hit the jackpot on these in every form possible, my best run was roughly 3 years ago I hit the jackpot in the arcade then popped over the road to a Lad`s bookies and hit it again on one of their multi games video machines, the following Wednesday I done exactly the same thing £2k in 8 days :thumbsup:. It was probably well over a year before I went into the arcade again and on my very 1st spin I hit 3 Leprechauns and it made the whole road and hit the jackpot (these work different to online ones you need at least 4 Leprechauns to hit £500 as the cap on 3 is x200 bet).

    Love this slot with a passion and a close 2nd is Elvis A little More Action.

    One of many RR Jackpots........

    IGT Slot RTP List: rainbowrichesjackpot.jpg,Feb 1, 2012

    And for fun, I really cannot wait for the day I have a balance of £20k+ at Sky Vegas, shit or bust time chasing this bad boy lol.......

    IGT Slot RTP List: RR5.jpg,Feb 1, 2012
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Feb 2, 2012
  13. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    That's not actually an IGT slot - it's made by Barcrest.
    Sky Vegas have slots form a multitude of different suppliers, as do many other "IGT based" online casinos.

    BTW, I saw at Virgin Casino the other day that they have a list of all their slots with the RTP stated next to each one in a handy list form.
    I wish ALL casinos would do that!

    KK
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Feb 2, 2012
  15. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Ooops, thanks for pointing that out KK :oops:, not played at Virgin for ages, tbh not really played at anywhere atm, kinda bored with it all, need something really exciting to lure me back in lol.
     
  16. Feb 2, 2012
  17. TheLastCylon

    TheLastCylon Banned User - violation of rule 1.19

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Second star to the right, and across from the gas
    I'm looking at your website, IGT Interactive. Some of the slots have game information PDFs available for download, others do not.


    What do you mean by jurisdiction and other factors? I'm curious about the state of online gaming throughout the world and would really appreciate any information that you can give.


    That's certainly true, but the RTP is the core of the game. All games are essentially mathematics, including things like variance. If I'm going to play a game, I'm going to search for the game that gives me the best math.

    And while one percentage point may not make too much of a difference from the perspective of the end player, two points starts to make a difference, regardless of the game's design.

    And from the perspective of the casino owner, one percentage point can equal millions in profits. So low RTP's seems to be exclusively the choice of the casino. The players would want high RTP's regardless of the other characteristics.


    That is an aspect of the game design I'm curious about. The games are all fundamentally mathematical. What is the quantifiable measure of volatility? Has anyone ever considered publishing that data? Would it be statistical variance? It would be very helpful for people since they would then have a number to search for based on their preferences. Currently, lots of casinos describe games as high or low variance. Without some sort of quantitative baseline, that's meaningless.

    Thanks for that. I would update my post to include all of the RTP's from them if I could. Virgin also appears to have higher RTP's for many games than those listed on IGT's website. For example, Virgin's version of Transformers is nearly 3% better. It's still not as good as Net Entertainment, but better.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Feb 2, 2012
  19. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Hi Bonkerjerks :)

    Can you tell me why some games have RTP set to a range on the IGT paytables? For example, on Siberian Stormm it shows as "92.52% - 96%"? Logically I'd guess that it is because different casinos can request different RTP settings?


    Being a bit pedantic, Barcrest was actually owned until very recently by IGT. I think it was sold to Scientific Games back-end of 2011.
     
  20. Feb 2, 2012
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Talking about Siberian Storm - I saw they had it at Virgin, so decided to have another go on it...
    ... and lost the same amount (or more) than I did in that casino in London! :mad:
    Not even a sniff of a half-decent win.
    Either it's mega-high variance, or I was very unlucky, or it's crap...

    Didn't know that about Barcrest - thanks for the info! :thumbsup:

    KK
     
  22. Feb 2, 2012
  23. Bonkerjerks

    Bonkerjerks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Product Manager
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Good questions!

    RTPs listed at a range have a couple reasons. Most of the time, it is because we have several math models of the game available that have all been approved. Casinos can choose their math model based on what they want for their customer. This is a standard on the land-based side that we also practice on the Internet. In addition, our new Monopoly Plus game coming out has a level up feature that means the more you play, the higher the RTP on the bonus game. These RTP rewards carry over between play sessions, rewarding players for return play.

    Also, especially on the land-based side, some juristictions restrict RTP. Fruit machines in the UK, for example, have a horrible RTP compared to online slots.

    As for RTP and volatility, I can understand the confusion. The two work hand in hand to provide the experience and both are just as important to the math of the game. At IGT, we rate our games volatility on what we call the "Chili Pepper Scale" of 1-5. Most of our games fall into the entertainment zone of 2 or 3 chilis. However, some fall into the higher risk gambler zone of 4-5 chilis.

    For example, if I created a 98% RTP game with extremely low volatility (low 1 chili), many players would hate it. Sure, you it might take you double the number of spins to lose the same amount of money, but you will never see any payouts that truly give any sort of win feeling. Imagine a game where you play 100 spins, and on 98 of them you win your total bet back and nothing more. That would be a 98% RTP, but would be a horrible slot.

    In addition, RTP is a theoretical value based on thousands upon thousands of spins. You, as a player, are never really going to play any single slot enough to match the RTP exactly. There will be times where you are on the RTP curve, but more often than not you will be above or below it. Just to confuse things even more, RTP is split between the base and bonus games. Bonus games, such as free spins, have no risk on the player side, so the amount a bonus awards can drastically change RTP. Balancing the reward between the base and bonus games is essential to a great slot.

    Long post. Hope that helps!
     
    4 people like this.
  24. Feb 2, 2012
  25. Bonkerjerks

    Bonkerjerks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Product Manager
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Siberian Storm does have a higher volatility that most of our slots. You can have dry spells, but you can also have huge wins. It's actually one of our best performing land slots and we only launched it online recently (performance has been excellent so far).

    I'm going to go with "unlucky"! ;)
     
  26. Feb 2, 2012
  27. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I saw the new "Level Up" version of Monopoly at ICE last week as it happens.

    Had never considered that...interesting.

    Is there somewhere where the "chilli" ratings are listed or I could get hold of them? I have most pretty accurately I think - based on experience mainly - but clarification would be good.
     
  28. Feb 6, 2012
  29. TheLastCylon

    TheLastCylon Banned User - violation of rule 1.19

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Second star to the right, and across from the gas
    That's a cool dynamic. But this seems like it would only affect the player-received RTP over short periods of gameplay. Once the player “levels up,” the bonus RTP must hit a ceiling and the slot would then simply level off at a set RTP. And even though the RTP is variable, it is still important. I still want to know the return that I begin with and what the maximum possible RTP becomes when I reach my max level. If that beginning RTP is poor, I don't want to play the game.

    Also, I don't mean to be a confrontational jerk, but casino's don't pick their math model based on what they want for their customers, it's based on their bottom line. They might have a spectrum of game variance, and that's certainly for the customer, but if the casino was out for the customer, all slots, regardless of variance, would have a 99% return.

    In fact, I'd imagine that casinos frequently use variance as a tool to hide poor RTP's.

    Some governments actually force casinos to have low RTP's? That's just bizarre. I would have expected laws to only exist for the opposite goal. The UK needs new lawmakers.

    I appreciate that you provide a scale, but it's still just some little pepper images. I was hoping for something quantitative, because that gives me a real baseline for interpreting slots. I could go play a few hundred games at your casino of each slot and DEVELOP a sense of the chili scale, but that is useless for comparing your product to other casinos or to some generally recognized standard for slot design.

    I recognize that it is just a theoretical number, but it is still the most important number. From the player's perspective and especially the casino's perspective. For the player, having sky-high variance would be terrible since most players would lose all of their money on their first set of spins, which means that all games would require something less than sky-high.

    If I enjoy the slot, I'm going to play it a fair amount, and that means that the RTP will have a significant impact on me and anyone who enjoys that particular slot. And even though bonuses and other such things all change the RTP as I go, the “real” RTP stays the same, and that is the RTP that I work ever closer to the more I play the game.

    I found a link to a post by Eliot Jacobson, who is a big-time math guy I assume, and he says what I'm trying to say.

    This applies to my previous argument that RTP is what is critical, since variance can very well be a tool to hide the RTP from the customer.

    My ideal world has both the RTP and the variance listed with some objective number.
     
  30. Feb 6, 2012
  31. TheLastCylon

    TheLastCylon Banned User - violation of rule 1.19

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Second star to the right, and across from the gas
    KK, could you send me the link to that. I tried to find it for a good thirty minutes. There's a lot of blind alleys at Virgin Casino's site where I always seem to end up with some big image of a toothy woman with a champagne glass.
     
  32. Feb 6, 2012
  33. threescatters

    threescatters Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    UK
    Hi Bonkerjerks,

    Many thanks for posting in this thread, you are giving some excellent replys and insight, I for one appreciate it.

    I really applaud IGT for having published the RTP of their slots in the pay tables for years. It gives a feeling of honesty about the whole thing when you are playing on them and I think everyone from casual penny players to hardened slot addicts appreciates it.

    However the trend you have now of publishing this "range" is a bit crap. Its publishing the RTP, without actually publishing it at all if you know what I mean! You are almost as clueless after reading it as you were before, and it removes the feeling of honesty.

    Why cant you just publish the actual RTP in the pay table that that slot at that casino is set to. You are very honest about everything else so why not do that?

    threescatters
     
  34. Feb 6, 2012
  35. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    There seems to be a little bit of confusion going on here...

    I don't think Bonkerjerks said anywhere that the RTP is variable. In fact, it can't be as that would be a contradiction.
    Where a slot has a range of RTPs, each individual casino can pick one of several options. But then that RTP is fixed.

    As above. If you go to the paytable on each slot at each casino you will see what RTP they have theirs set on.

    :lolup:
    Go to:You must register/login in order to see the link.
    In the red bar where it says "Slots", select the "List View"

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Feb 6, 2012
  37. Bonkerjerks

    Bonkerjerks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Product Manager
    Location:
    San Francisco
    True, with one exception. :) As far as I am aware, we only have one slot that is truly RTP variable and that is the upcoming Monopoly Plus slot. The game has an RTP that is similar as many of our other slots. The "leveling up" feature raises that RTP by 1-2% for those that unlock all the features. Its meant as a reward, and no, we didn't penalize the base game to pay for it. In fact, the RTP bonus is only on the bonus board and affects the volatility (increased chances of bigger rewards), thus affects the RTP.

    I'll say again that RTP doesn't ever tell the whole story. A single number doesn't give you the nuance of where that money is actually rewarded. You could have a low RTP base game, saving all the payout for a volatile bonus game that can reward a few people a lot of money. RTP and volatility go hand in hand to give players the slot ride that they are looking for. You can also design a high RTP game that is extremely efficient at taking your money for the house while only occasionally offering a big enough payment to offset that. Just because a game has a high RTP, doesn't necessarily mean that its a fun one to play.
     
  38. Feb 7, 2012
  39. threescatters

    threescatters Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    UK
    Yes I understand that the individual casino can pick the RTP and then it is set in stone. But that is what I mean by "variable". I mean variable from casino to casino.

    You are wrong that if you go to the paytable on each casino you will see what RTP they have. Some list the ranges and NOT what they are set to at that casino. Go to siberian storm at kerching casino for example. This is what I am talking about, thats not listing the RTP!

    And yes I realise virgin themselves state their own RTP for every slot, its great. But because it is allowed for different casinos to set different RTPs on IGT slots, you cannot take virgins listing for siberian storm as what kerching have.

    This is why I am saying its pointless to list the range in the paytable at some places, and its not listing the RTP. I just assume the worst when I see a range listing and its a pretty depressing assumption.

    threescatters
     

Share This Page