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IGC says: AMERICANS STILL FREE TO GAMBLE ONLINE

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by spearmaster, Oct 9, 2006.

    Oct 9, 2006
  1. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Just in from the IGC:

     
    15 people like this.
  2. Oct 9, 2006
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
  4. Oct 9, 2006
  5. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    BARELY.. LOL... and that was only because I posted it somewhere else first ;)

    Anyhow, thought I'd stick it in here to reassure players... naturally you can move it if you want :D
     
  6. Oct 9, 2006
  7. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    If it is legal, then why did the casinos ban us?

    And if they were willing to pay taxes, then how come they located on foreign soil and never did pay US taxes?

    I'm too confused by all the different reports and opinions.
     
  8. Oct 9, 2006
  9. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    First of all, online gambling is NOT illegal, despite any reports you have read to the contrary. Only sportsbetting falls foul of the law.

    The new legislation is designed to inhibit/block financial transactions to/from what they call "online gambling sites".

    Many casinos suspended, or will suspend, play from the US - but they chose some pretty poor wording, much like the media did - the words "ban" and "illegal gambling" suddenly became fashionable for absolutely no reason.

    Taxwise - some operations have actually publicly pleaded with Mr. Bush to be allowed to pay tax. These pleas were ignored. Furthermore, running a gambling operation of any sort within the US is generally prohibited by state laws - therefore there are few, if any, jurisdictions within the US which would or could currently accommodate an online gambling operation which takes wagers across state lines.
     
  10. Oct 9, 2006
  11. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    That's an excellent PR. Hits all the nails on the head in one go :thumbsup:
     
  12. Oct 10, 2006
  13. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    .....

    As far as what I understand ...

    There is no law saying gambling is illegal. What the US is doing is taking measures to avoid US citizens deposit funds.

    As far as you can deposit, you are not been a criminal by gambling online. (except people in washington).
     
  14. Oct 10, 2006
  15. Addisyn

    Addisyn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Underground Sewer Access
    Neteller...

    I spoke at great length with the manager of Shark Casino a few nights ago. He is originally from CA and we got to talking about this recent bill passed in our Congress.

    He was telling me he thought Neteller was on its way out since as stated this doesn't make it illegal for US gamers, but for the money people. Something else he mentioned I thought was interesting. He said PayPal might get back into the business of funding online gambling. That made absolutely no sense to me if this bill is to crack down on legititmate companies handling our transactions.

    I guess the lesson here is to vote in November and get some checks and balances back into our Congress.
     
  16. Oct 10, 2006
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I think much is going to depend here on whether big [offshore] financial companies decide to bow down and cooperate with US enforcement, because major intermediaries like Neteller are outside US jurisdiction, and the reach of the US authorities is not unlimited, much as they would like everyone to believe otherwise.

    Outfits like Neteller are not on US soil; it has no assets there; it is licensed by a sovereign government and controlled by the financial services regulations of that government (in Neteller's case - the Isle of Man)

    In a strictly *informal* sense I'm sure determined US authorities could try other tactics to get their way. When it suits these agencies they have shown that they are not averse to using intimidatory techniques and disregarding obligations to the likes of the WTO, or misusing instruments like the anti-terrorist extradition treaty which has to date been used to extradite more white collar alleged criminals than terrorists.

    You can be sure of one thing - there will be workarounds. Players will have to assess these carefully to ensure they are using credible companies, in decent and regulated jurisdictions and that's one of the reasons why this silly legislation has the potential to make American players more vulnerable - where there is a demand there is always a supplier.

    Regulation is the better option because superior suppliers can be checked out and regulated for the protection of the public.

    This is all speculation at present, because this act still has to be given the necessary authorities and regulation in the 270 day period specified. That's assuming the president signs it into law at all, which does seem likely.

    Once the US Treasury and AG have framed these regulations everyone - and especially those in the financial services industry - will be able to assess how effective they are likely to be.

    My personal opinion is that this is going to be one helluva difficult law to enforce even as things stand today. There is every bit as much expert thinking outside the USA as there is resident in the enforcement infrastructure in the States and alternatives will be available.

    This could make life more inconvenient until everyone gets in the swing of things. We've seen that before, too. It may result in some US players abandoning their entertainment of choice but it is not going to destroy the American market or the international industry.

    Remember, this legislation does not target the player - it seeks to curtail his or her ability to fund their entertainment through US institutions.

    If American players remain determined to play, there will be ways to do so.

    What could practically divert US revenues is the legalisation of online gambling in individual states and across consenting state borders. This would imo have the competitive potential to bring the major and fully regulated land casinos in the US into the picture, and who could blame Americans for choosing to play at such safe venues, all other things being equal.

    However, that would call for a remarkable about-face by the politicians and the other *interested parties* who seem to be involved and I don't see it happening anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2006
    2 people like this.
  18. Oct 10, 2006
  19. Tailgun

    Tailgun Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self-employed
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Learn to Open Offshore Accounts

    As the recent article in The Economist pointed out, if anything this will accelerate the learning curve of determined gamblers toward offshore banking. Soon, the most efficient way to circumvent all this will be to simply open accounts outside the U.S. and employ them to make deposits and withdraw funds from gambling sites. Such transactions would be impossible for federal authorities to track or prohibit.

    The article pointed out an unintended circumstance of this might be the growing awareness by American citizenry that they can protect any funds in offshore banks from taxation. I for one looked into offshore banking years ago when I first began doing business online.

    It looks like I might want to revisit that now.
     
  20. Oct 10, 2006
  21. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Yes I read that somewhere else too and you have to agree. This legislation has put US gamblers at more risk than they ever were. the Act purports to help stop problem gambling, but it proves the US government either don't understand problem gambling, or are not in the slightest bit interested. A problem gambler will find a way to gamble and this Act has only helped to ensure that many of the "safer" options are no longer available to them.
     
  22. Oct 10, 2006
  23. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    On a daily basis now expert articles are appearing where specialists and lawyers alike are coming forward to point out the hypocrisy of this bill's carve-outs, the likely result of these and the potential for 'accidental consequences' to American players. It really is an ill-conceived initiative on the part of Frist, Kyl et al.
     
  24. Oct 10, 2006
  25. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Paypal already allows people located in the UK and a couple of Countries in EU to fund their gambling accounts.

    I'd suggest that US players don't hold their breath on this one. It aint going to happen.
     
  26. Oct 10, 2006
  27. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    I think it's fair to say & also point out that this industry has a knack of rolling with the punches, it has manage to do it so far & imo will continue to do so.

    Changes that forced its hand into taking action (not in chronological order):

    * Paypal
    * Western Union
    * Visa, MasterCard

    As I'm not a US player, I'm not sure what happen to Prepaid ATM. I could speculate that the DOJ got to them too. As with a number of these payment systems (eg PPATM, NT, C2P,MB & so on) they're been set-up primarily to fund gambling account & visa versa.

    Take 900Pay, another work around for the US player.

    Personally I wouldn't stress. As Spear, Jet, CM & others have pointed out, it's not about you as US player who is affected by this bill, it's the processing companies & maybe affiliates too.

    Believe me if there is a will the gambling industry will find a way around this...

    If you haven't hooked up to CM's latest webcast, check it out, its got some pretty good info about this bill.


    :)
     
  28. Oct 10, 2006
  29. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Well we got our accounts closed at the casinos we liked to play at so it did affect us. I'm not going to play somewhere that I don't want to just because they are the only guys taking my money now.

    Right now there are exactly two casino groups that I both want to play at and that will take my dollars.
     

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