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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by lilly29, Mar 5, 2016.

    Mar 5, 2016
  1. lilly29

    lilly29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    norway
    Hi! :cool: When it comes to gambling advertising on television in the UK, what is the "rule" when it comes to airtime? Since gambling shouldn't be displayed for children, is there a gambling ad showing every hour of the day, or is it just in the evening?

    Sorry for my bad english and poor formulation.. Hope you understand what i mean :p
     
  2. Mar 5, 2016
  3. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
    Gambling adverts get shown later on at night.
    Should imagine they wont be allowed to show them until at least 9pm.
    I never take much notice of them to be honest.
    Last one I saw showed starburst lol
     
  4. Mar 5, 2016
  5. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have only seen them after 9pm and boy, some of the late night channels have gambling advertised constantly!
     
  6. Mar 5, 2016
  7. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Only in the evening - I do know the Jez Kyle show was sponsored by foxy ... bingo but they have switched that now to a EVapour sponsor (the next big thing apart from online gambling ;-)

    And dont think they are many bingo adverts in the day now but I rare watch watch DTTV - on the evening its every bloomin advert for some channels.
     
  8. Mar 5, 2016
  9. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Sports events especially the football have sports betting adverts wall to wall pretty much. Boxing has casino adverts normally. For instance the Frampton vs Quigg pay per view last Saturday was sponsored by William Hill Vegas, yet the likes of 32Red had ads on during the breaks.

    32Red Ads always mention Casinomeister as well :thumbsup:
     
  10. Mar 5, 2016
  11. itsover2014

    itsover2014 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I am watching the Spurs Arsenal game on tv now and must have seen 10 casino adverts or at least sports betting anyway.. its 1pm
     
  12. Mar 5, 2016
  13. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Sports betting companies have an exception where they can advertise before the watershed - if its during a live sporting event.

    Aside from that all gambling advertising has to be post watershed.
     
  14. Mar 6, 2016
  15. lilly29

    lilly29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    norway
    Interesting.. I live in Norway and because we have gambling-monopoly, all other gambling related marketing is illegal. But since they are broadcasting from outside of Norway, they follow the law in that Country.

    The Norwegian Media Authority has recently reached out to the media authority in the UK, Spain and Netherlands to get them to comply with the Norwegian law. A total of 11 channels. Two of them, FOX and Nat.Geo(N), which is broadcasting from Spain has stopped all their marketing on gambling. :thumbsup:

    But the rest is not willing to comply, and say they will continue to comply with the UK law.

    One of them (Discovery Channel), showed a total of 287 gambling Ads in a period of 24h! Throughout the whole day, even the time when kids and young people normally watch TV.

    The top five gambling operators5 presented in the gambling advertisements from the
    UK licensed channels targeting Norway are: Betsson, Unibet, Vera&john, Betsafe and
    Casumo.

    And they are saying that they take responsible gambling VERY serious!?

    Even though they act like a 3 year old when they say "I will NOT follow your rules!", at least they could use the same airtime as they do in the UK? Or is it too much to ask? :mad:
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Mar 6, 2016
  17. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    I believe the operators you list do take responsible gambling seriously.

    As for the advertising thing, I don't know about laws in Norway or any precedents set for situations you describe. Clearly the sites are interpreting the laws as how would benefit them and using a loophole to that effect. I do not think you or anyone else will stop them doing that until the law is changed.
     
  18. Mar 7, 2016
  19. quber

    quber Senior Member

    Occupation:
    spy
    Location:
    Europe
    Casinos are after the 9pm watershed.

    Sports are after the watershed except during live events

    Bingo is all day

    No matter what time of day it is adverts are not allowed during programmes that are aimed at underage audiences so a programme like The Brit Awards wouldn't allow adverts as it would have a high teenage audience.

    info and links here for more info You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Mar 7, 2016
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The Norwegian government are arguing from the point of view of protecting a monopoly, rather than responsible advertising of gambling. Monopolies are not condoned by the EU, nor by the UK, so fighting on the basis of protecting a monopoly isn't going to work.

    Instead, the Norwegian government should focus on protecting under age viewers from being exposed to this advertising, and should go after the exemption that allows the advertising of sports betting during daytime live sports events, as after all, many kids are keen on sport and will be watching. One could say that by broadcasting a sporting event with a bombardment of sports betting advertising to children will condition them to view sports and gambling as natural partners, and we are ENCOURAGED to take part in sport as it's "good for us" because of the exercise. Adults viewing the coverage know damn well it's possible to gamble on the outcomes, and don't need advertising to tell them this.

    They could also look into technical solutions, such as rebroadcasting the coverage within Norway by taking the feed from the UK, and rebroadcasting it with home grown advertising in place of what was originally there.

    The exemptions are there because "money talks", and has managed to shout over the voices of those who want a strict regime to ensure that children do not see these ads during the day, and so that parents can know that they can freely let their kids watch TV before 9pm safe in the knowledge that they won't see gambling ads.

    Kids can gamble in the UK in any case, they can play slot machines where the stake is no more than 10p and the prize no more than £5 cash at family leisure centres and the seaside, provided they are not supposed to be in school. I started playing slots when I was around 7 on family holidays and the funfair:D I also played bingo at a similar age, and won £5 at my first attempt:p

    This is an example of a more general issue with media being streamed into several countries, but being regulated by only one of them. An EU wide standard would help, but it would still mean that this standard would differ from the standards in some countries which can receive the broadcast.

    A complete ban on gambling advertising would seem impossible, but a complete ban on tobacco advertising was once though just as impossible, but has steadily been achieved. If it could be argued that both smoking and gambling are equally dangerous, one to health, and one to finances, it might be possible to have gambling advertising go the way of smoking advertising in 20 years time. There was a lot of money talking in the tobacco industry, yet it was eventually silenced by the voice of the medical profession.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Mar 7, 2016
  23. 09237653

    09237653 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    UK
    Every other UK advert in the evening and at night is a gambling advert, spaced out only by the alcohol ads inbetween, be it sports betting, casinos, bingo, poker, mobile casinos, bookies you name it we get it advertised on TV. Not to mention countless shows and movies are also sponsered by partypoker,partycasino, bingo sites, foxy casino etc.

    Any tourists watching our terrestrial TV must think we are a all bunch of gambling drunks.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 7, 2016
  25. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    To be fair though that is exactly what we are :D
     
    5 people like this.
  26. Mar 10, 2016
  27. lilly29

    lilly29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    norway
    Where does it say that monopoly is not condoned by the EU?
     
  28. Mar 10, 2016
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's all part of the original idea of the EU as a "common market". In fact, state monopolies on gambling have faced many challenges in the highest EU courts after some German provinces tried to exclude other EU companies from the market in Germany. This ONLY applies to the exclusion of other EU companies, it does not help non EU companies as they are not a part of the "free trade area" of the EU.

    However, things have evolved somewhat, and individual EU states can now operate their own licensing and regulation of activities like online gambling if they can show that this is for the protection of consumers. This is what the UK have done, and a number of other EU countries have also introduced similar licensing schemes.

    The major difference between these and a state monopoly is that any company can apply for a license, and their application is judged on whether or not they can meet the required standards, rather than because they are a state monopoly. It would not mean that non EU countries could make a complaint, it would be for another EU country to argue in the EU court that they have been excluded for the protection of a state monopoly, rather than because they can't meet the required standards.

    It is based on the recognition that where a monopoly supplier can control the market, they can fix the prices to the detriment of the consumer.

    Apple got fined by the EU for trying to prevent UK customers from buying content on their French iTunes site in Euros, where in UK pound terms the content was significantly cheaper because both the pound and euro price was 0.99, but the pound was worth more than the euro.

    Microsoft also got told it could not bundle it's own Explorer browser with the operating system as it gave them an unfair competitive advantage over other browsers. In the end, Microsoft had to change Windows destined for EU customers so that upon first use, it presented users with a "choose your browser" screen rather than simply defaulting to it's own.

    Under EU rules, UK based TV companies probably can't make the changes wanted by the Norwegian government because it would be breaking competition laws in many other countries that also receive the transmissions. The only way out would be a total ban on ALL gambling adverts, including for the Norwegian state operator who would also be banned from advertising on TV. The gambling industry would of course fight such an EU wide development, as they would were Norway to try to force UK companies to stop allowing gambling companies from advertising just because one country that receives the transmissions objects.

    If the UK votes to leave the EU, things will probably change, but not necessarily to suit the Norwegians. The UK would be free to regulate it's own TV companies without interference from the EU.

    By far the biggest problem is with live sports coverage where gambling companies are major sponsors. There is no way they will change just to suit Norway, or indeed any other country. The big corporations have already managed to make the Olympics into a highly commercialised professional competition, whereas when I was young I remember it being only for amateur athletes, with strict rules forbidding anyone who was a "professional" (as in competing for big money prizes and accepting sponsorship deals) at their sport from competing. Football has also gone the same way, it's nothing like it was when it started, local lads playing for local teams, and a cheap and cheerful Saturday afternoon activity for the whole family.

    The gambling companies have probably filled the gap left when the tobacco companies were even banned from sponsoring sports, so instead of big tobacco names like Embassy sponsoring the Snooker, we now have the big gambling companies sponsoring it.
     
  30. Mar 11, 2016
  31. lilly29

    lilly29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    norway
    EU law says that monopoly is legal if it can be justified.
    ECJ have ruled in favour of the member states gambling monopoly several times. And Norway has not been told to change their regulation as other have. Therefor the monopoly is legal, and should be respected.

    They would not break any rules at all, because the TV-channels they are referring to is Norwegian. TV3.no, Viasat4.no, tlcnorge.no, tv6norge.no, fem.no, max.no, vox.no and discoverychannel.no. All the gambling advertisements have the Norwegian language and Norwegian text.

    The Norwegian state owned operator would not be banned. The legal and illegal cant be compared. They do not advertise the same games.
    Total advertisements on tv from 1.August 2014 to 31.July 2015 from the state owned gambling operator was 45.246, from other eu-lisenced operators was 578.736...

    Member of the EU or not, they should respect national law no matter what.
     
  32. Mar 11, 2016
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm afraid they ARE respecting national law, ours if they are based in the UK.

    Why doesn't the Norwegian government take court action to ban the adverts from clearly targeting Norwegian customers by having the language and text in Norwegian. It can be argued that if they can insert ads specifically aimed at the Norwegian market, they can insert ones compliant with Norwegian advertising regulations. I thought this was channels in English that Norwegians were able to access, rather than bespoke channels being made specifically for Norwegian consumption.

    If the EU has stated that the Norwegian position is legal, why doesn't it order other countries to respect EU law that states this?

    There IS regulation of TV in the UK, but I would suspect those Norwegian channels have benefitted from a bit of commercial ducking and diving designed to place them "offshore" despite being "based in the UK", and thus beyond the reach of UK regulators as well as Norwegian regulators.

    It's more common for big companies to go "offshore" to avoid paying tax, even though they are physically based in the UK they incorporate in a tax haven using a maildrop as their registered offices with a structure that moves all the profits offshore, and all the tax losses stay in the UK.

    The motive of course is money, these gambling companies pay big money to advertise and sponsor sports, and they want value for that money by having their branding and advertising on TV as much as possible.

    I am not sure that Discovery Channel is even British, I think it's parent is based in the US, but it's output is redistributed through satellite TV providers like SKY. The UK has struggled to get SKY to play by the rules more so than with the land based TV channels. The problem is that SKY transmits from space, rather than any one country. It's like getting tax out of Amazon or Facebook, it's a struggle for the government and often they have to resort to cutting a deal, rather than imposing the regulations and the law.

    Other countries have resorted to blocking the websites of online gambling firms that flout local regulations as they have found they are powerless to make them behave otherwise where they are based wholly offshore. The mighty US has STILL not managed to prevent online gambling companies from taking US customers, and cannot do much to prevent internet and email based advertising either.

    Maybe you could catch these channels breaking UK regulations, such as advertising gambling before 9pm or showing adverts that are likely to appeal to children. The UK will act against breaches of it's own regulations, and this may work even if the adverts were not in English and not directed at English speakers. If you want to get them to change, you will have to be as crafty as they have been in sidestepping the rules laid down in Norway.

    A surprisingly large number of online gambling sites have fallen foul of UK advertising rules, but it's only begun to bite them now that they need a UK licence as well as their primary one. It means that even if what they do is OK in, say, Malta, they could still lose their UK licence and a big chunk of their customer base if they repeatedly flout the UK regulations.

    The problem might be that like the US, Norway has opted for blanket prohibition, whereas the UK has opted for licencing and regulation. Where there is blanket prohibition, companies have nothing to gain by sticking to the rules, so they will flout whatever rules will deliver more profit than the cost of sidestepping attempts at enforcement. In the UK, they have been allowed in, and there is a significant cost to breaking our rules that will see them kicked out and their UK licence revoked. This would make it much harder for them to hang on to their UK market share, and they will also be competing with those allowed to operate here. In Norway, they are only competing against the state supplier, and in most of America, there is no legal competition at all.

    The experience for UK players when our regulations came into force was that the illegal firms pushed and shoved their way through the exit, many ditching their UK players long before they had to. In the US by contrast, they dug their heels in for as long as possible, and the best that could be done was to deter them by seizing as much of their money as possible in order to disrupt their service and make players afraid to trust their money to them.

    It's mostly the offshore rogues that still accept UK customers without having a UK licence. Even the good RTG casinos pulled out of the UK, yet some STILL do their best to stick it out in the US illegal black market.
     

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