ID & Documents

Simmo!

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
Can someone answer a query for me regarding ID and documents?

Whenever i have come to cash out at any casino that isn't aimed at the UK market (where i live), I get asked for ID on the first "major" cashout. But 32Red, Ladbrokes, Littlewoods, Will Hill etc have never asked me for that. I win (sometimes!), i withdraw, i get paid.

Is this becuase they are UK and I am UK? Do these 4 casinos ask non-UK residents for ID? If not, how come they don't need it and many others do?

With that in mind, why do casinos that ask for ID ask only at the point they pay out and not when they accept a deposit? Surely, morally at least, they have more of a duty to ensure that the money they accept is not from a fraudulent source? Or am i missing something?

Cheers

Simmo!
 
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nafanny29

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Location
London, England
Very good question Simmo. I have had to provide ID to some UK casinos but not others.

Ecash send a PIN which verifies that your address is valid which I think is a very good approach by them.

I really dont understand why ID is needed as any winnings is recredited to whatever method you use to deposit. So if you used a stolen card to deposit with the winnings is returned to the stolen card which would be of no use to you at all.

The only reason I can think of is money laundering but even that is not possible given the above.

I use tesco for online shopping and have spends 1000s over the last 3 years but have never been asked for ID :D

I think the whole ID thing can only be either a delaying tactic or possibly to stop multiple account abuse.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Neteller Deposits

What I don't understand, and I'm being facetious, is if I made a Neteller deposit into ANY casino, why should I have to go through fax backs, ID's and all the other nonsense of jumping through hoops to get MY money back.
Neteller goes through a thorough bank verification. And, in turn, my bank won't open an account without a drivers license (or some sort of proper photo ID) and a utility bill.
So, all this is taken care of LONG before these casinos want me to go through all this CRAP again!
I believe that the ONLY reason the casinos delay payments is to keep OUR money in THEIR bank that much longer.
Now, don't tell me about security BS because that is what it is ...BS!
All the security was handled and taken care of BY the bank and Neteller!!
 

Simmo!

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
lanidar said:
What I don't understand, and I'm being facetious, is if I made a Neteller deposit into ANY casino, why should I have to go through fax backs, ID's and all the other nonsense of jumping through hoops to get MY money back. Neteller goes through a thorough bank verification...

Thats a very good point Lanidar.
 

bethug

Dormant Account
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
landiar, i agree with . I made the same statement 3 years ago.
Nostalgia ask me to fax back some forms, i told them nope, pull it up from phoneican you own by the same place, they was nice enough to do that.
 

eek

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
The UK stuff isn't normally a problem because it just gets fired back to your card and if the surplus can't (winnings) it gets mailed.
You usually have to provide ID if you deposit by one method and withdraw via another.

The sky group used to allow withdrawals less than $500 with no id if you deposited/withdrew by neteller. Geisha Lounge had a $500 limit too, but it no longer says much about it on their site just a 'In certain instances further documentation will be required' comment.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Neteller Deposits

Simmo! said:
Thats a very good point Lanidar.

Thanks Simmo... :notworthy
It's just that I'm COMPLETELY fed up with their excuses...and that what it is EXCUSES, of why I need to send them personal info. The only ones that I want to have that info is my bank and my Neteller account. There is NO reason in the world that I should be advertising my personal info all over the Internet.
And, don't forget, these casinos share this info. Some of them steal it and some of them sell it. That's a fact that seems to be put on the back shelf somewhere that no one wants to discuss.
I'm sick and tired of these casino managers like CLOUD wanting my fax backs, ID's and utility bills. Who the hell is he to make him entitled to share this info with me.
The man's a cheat and a thief. There are VERY few casinos that I trust out there...VERY few. And even those few, I wouldn't want to have my info either. There are so many casinos changing hands now a days that you REALLY don't know where that info will wind up.

Time to get off my soap box.

Thanks again Simmo
 

tunisianswife

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Cincinnati, OH USA
what's the difference?

I agree with the above opinions. What I have never been able to understand is if they are so concerned about fraud, etc. why is it that they have no problems with ID and fax back forms when they ACCEPT deposits? It seems the same would apply to deposits based upon this logic.

Yes, I agree that most wants one to jump through hoops in order to get their "surplus" (loved that term)
 

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller or other E-cash transactions is to verify your identity. As an example, had we banned your account for lets say fraudulent activity in the past, and you open an account with a fake name and address to circumvent our security protocol, should'nt we know who we are paying? Last week we offered a free chip, to all customers, do you realize that I had to ban over 25,000 accounts by customers who opened a number of accounts to receive the free chip. One customer opened 765 accounts, and than won. Than got upset when we asked to see his ID to match up to his account. So that is why we ask for an Id here. Also we ask you to send your ID as soon as you sign up, so that way we never run in to a problem. It is sad that honest true gamblers, have to "go through hoops", but you must remember that there are a large percentage of players who are scammers. Bryan needs to update his evil player section more often, I doubt legitate players realize how many scammers are out there, both casino and player.
Ted
 

Simmo!

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
virtualted said:
...do you realize that I had to ban over 25,000 accounts by customers who opened a number of accounts to receive the free chip. One customer opened 765 accounts, and than won. Than got upset when we asked to see his ID to match up to his account.
Ted

Wow. Thats just incredible. An eye opener for sure!

virtualted said:
Also we ask you to send your ID as soon as you sign up, so that way we never run in to a problem.

That's to be applauded in my book. I can see why ID might be required, but that's how it should be Ted, at sign-upa nd clear in the T&C's. Wish more did it that way.

Managing a business is as much about managing expectations as anything else in my experience. Get that right and loyalty follows.

Plus its nice to get real answers from your side rather than player speculation Ted (no disrepect to anyone for their opinions here of course).

Thanks.

Simmo!
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Id's And Documents

virtualted
Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller

I have a Neteller account.
I have a personal ID and a Secure, ID...which I share with no one.
When I make a deposit into a casino FROM MY Neteller account I expect the winnings to go DIRECTLY back to THAT EXACT account. Why would it or should it go any where else but back to MY Neteller account?
I don't know about credit cards or other E-cash transactions.
All I'M talking about is Neteller.
Knowing all that, which I'm sure you knew already, why in the world would I want to give you or anyone else my MOST personal info?
Look at William Hill (paid next day), Sunny Group (paid in three days), Starluck Group (paid next day), Oasis (paid same day), VIP Casinos (paid two days) and on and on.
I've played in over 100 casinos. And I play everyday. BUT, I only play in the best casinos. The ones with timely payouts and excellent customer service.
No faxbacks...No ID's...No NONSENSE!
 

Sodax77

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
EU|FI
lanidar said:
virtualted


I have a Neteller account.
I have a personal ID and a Secure, ID...which I share with no one.
When I make a deposit into a casino FROM MY Neteller account I expect the winnings to go DIRECTLY back to THAT EXACT account. Why would it or should it go any where else but back to MY Neteller account?.....

...BUT, I only play in the best casinos. The ones with timely payouts and excellent customer service.
No faxbacks...No ID's...No NONSENSE!

Same here. And i use only NETeller (certified) as banking method. Nothing else.
But NO casino never ask me any ID's... never... After many, many cash outs.
Ok these casinos, where i play have good reputation. AND, i always contact to new casino before i deposit, and i ask all possible question...
Even about their business. Latest example is Bodog... and they sent very informative reply. Probably next place, where i open account.
 

Chill

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Location
Norway
virtualted said:
Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller or other E-cash transactions is to verify your identity.
Ted

Why on earth do you need an ID for a neteller transaction, your log wil show the name of the player doing the transaction. If the name of player and neteller dosen't match, then and only then should you start to ask if something is wrong.
 

Ping

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Location
Asia
Maybe when NETeller first asked for some ID, have it scanned and ready in your computer, so that anytime some online casinos ask for some ID, you can easily email it to them. :thumbsup:

Besides, I dont see anything wrong with ID verification. At least you'll know the online casino is doing some job regarding security. You wouldnt want someone claiming your winnings instead? You trust them and risk your hard earned money with them, why not with your ID?

Just my 2 cents ...



Ping
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Ping
Besides, I dont see anything wrong with ID verification. At least you'll know the online casino is doing some job regarding security. You wouldnt want someone claiming your winnings instead?

That "security" line that the casinos are tell you is JUST a lot of BS!!
The point is that with a NETELLER account you should NOT have to give these people PERSONAL info.
Who cares about someone else getting your winnings.
How would you like someone to get YOUR Social Security number...the name of your bank...your HOME phone number...ETC.
Neteller ALREADY went through a SECURITY check with my bank.
Don't you understand that there is absolutely NO need for this?
Once again...

THE ONLY REASON WHY THE CASINOS WANT THE FAXBACKS, ID'S, UTILITY BILLS IS JUST AN EXCUSE TO KEEP YOUR MONEY LONGER.

I can't understand why some people out there just don't get it.

PERIOD!!!
 

Sodax77

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
EU|FI
lanidar said:
Ping

1.That "security" line that the casinos are tell you is JUST a lot of BS!!...

2. THE ONLY REASON WHY THE CASINOS WANT THE FAXBACKS, ID'S, UTILITY BILLS IS JUST AN EXCUSE TO KEEP YOUR MONEY LONGER.

3. I can't understand why some people out there just don't get it.

1. = Yes that is true, if you use some trusted 3rd party system, like NETeller, then there is no need to re-check these thing (exclude: some random check, or if you hit some huge jackpot ;))

2-3. = True and Maybe your letters are too small ;)

But you are so right! Because why those trusted casinos never ask any ID from me (when i use only NETeller), because they don't have to tell me million excuses... (read=BS). And they know and trust, that NETTELLER USE HIGH SECURITY SYSTEM!

My turn. Period. :D
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Id's And Documents

Sodax77 said:
1. = Yes that is true, if you use some trusted 3rd party system, like NETeller, then there is no need to re-check these thing (exclude: some random check, or if you hit some huge jackpot ;))

2-3. = True and Maybe your letters are too small ;)

But you are so right! Because why those trusted casinos never ask any ID from me (when i use only NETeller), because they don't have to tell me million excuses... (read=BS). And they know and trust, that NETTELLER USE HIGH SECURITY SYSTEM!

My turn. Period. :D
:lolup:

Thanks Sodax77 for your support. :notworthy
If I didn't believe what I said I wouldn't post it. :)
Hey...are my letters really too small? ;)
 

bethug

Dormant Account
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Ted, i know all about crooked players, they hit me up weekly with a plan, I dont know why people think i steal, all black people dont steal or should i say from the hood.

But ted why do you need to check if they use neteller, how can they use other information, one account and one email at neteller.

Now if you giving out free chips , i understand cause u dont need to depoist to get the money.

but if i use neteller and get a bonus and win, why do u need to check my id, ssi number and all that bull,
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
bethug said:
Ted, i know all about crooked players, they hit me up weekly with a plan, I dont know why people think i steal, all black people dont steal or should i say from the hood.

But ted why do you need to check if they use neteller, how can they use other information, one account and one email at neteller.

Now if you giving out free chips , i understand cause u dont need to depoist to get the money.

but if i use neteller and get a bonus and win, why do u need to check my id, ssi number and all that bull,


GO GET 'EM BETHUG!!!
 

Sodax77

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
EU|FI
lanidar said:
GO GET 'EM BETHUG!!!

:what: ... i think those letters are still too small :D

NOT!!! Maybe people realize.... someday!

And when i say Reputable before, i didn't mean CM-list, but usually.

And you're welcome Lanidar, And i write, because i also agree this thing.

And if Ted or whatever say something to this.... i mean deposit players, players who deposit and withdraw with NETeller.
CC, etc is different story.
 
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virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
On the issue of Neteller deposits and withdrawals only and nothing else. I have had the same checking account since I was 14, and I have had credit cards from about 17 on. Neteller when I signed up with them did verify my checking account, but never verified my age. We also to have a lot of areas of the world, that are restricted from playing in some of the casinos. A lot of players from the U.S would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller and lost than, than asked for all of your money back because you were not eligible to play there, and you threaten to sue for it back, because all though you were wrong to give a false address, it was as wrong for the casino not to verify information.
It is funny where tis strand is running to. As a merchant in the U.S before coming here, I always suggested a second ID when I took a credit card from a customer, even though it was not actually even legal, but it sure is a lot easier to stop most problems before they happen. I am willing to bet, that the casinos that require an Id, ask you to send it in as soon as you sign up, but only enforce it when you cash out, but had asked for it in the begining. One more thing on this subject, Neteller is not perfect, there chargeback percentage is much much lower than any of the other e-wallets out there, but we do from time to time get a ding for accepting Neteller that was set-up fraudently. Everyone must remember these are all third party representatives of the casino. Neteller does not garantee Id or eligibility for us. If Neteller went out of business tomorrow owing the casino the hold on the last month deposits, would it be ok for the casino to with hold a players win, because technically the player never gave it directly to the casino. I think as a casino we would be liable to pay the player, because you used our third party, but you still need to abide by the casinos rules. Sorry I got so long, but one last thing, all I am asking for is an Id, not bills or fingerprints or some of the other things some places ask for. Also in the UK, their Id's do not have pictures on them, and they do not update as often as the U.S does, so that could be one reason that they do not require the Id there.
Ted
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Id's And Documents

virtualted
Neteller when I signed up with them did verify my checking account, but never verified my age.
I had to be 18 or over to open a checking account. So, the bank took care of that problem for Neteller.
A lot of players from the U.S. would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller
To get a false address from England...open a bank account...open a Neteller account with the English bank is a bit much. Also you have to remember that BEFORE Neteller approves your account they put pennies into your bank account, which you have to verify and then they DEMAND a phone call from you with the Secure info from your Neteller account. If there is any doubt from where the phone call is coming from Neteller will insist that they call you back. PLUS, Neteller tracks your IP address. So, if you're from the U.S. and you sign up stating you're from England the IP will not be an IP from Europe it will be from the U.S.
I played for my son Justin once who lives in Chicago. I'm in New York. He opened an account at a casino, phoned me and told me about it and went to college. I moved the funds into his Neteller account from mine. Went back to Justin's Neteller account only to find it was locked and so was mine. Neteller wanted to know why my IP was from N.Y. and still play from Chicago. I can't be in two places at the same time.
So, I think that drills a hole in your theory regarding the above quote.

And, I agree that no E-cash method is perfect but Neteller IS the closest you'll get regarding security.

You and I are going to go around and around on this issue. You have your beliefs and so do I.
Your beliefs are not going to change and neither will mine.
I guess we'll just have to leave it at that and leave it up to the individual player to make the decision of whether or not they want do put there ID's ETC out there.
 

Simmo!

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
A lot of players from the U.S. would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller

lanidar said:
virtualted

To get a false address from England...open a bank account...open a Neteller account with the English bank is a bit much.

You wouldn't actually need to do that L. I can see where Ted's coming from here i think. You can still open a Real Account at a UK casino pretending to be from England (rather than the USA, say) and deposit/withdraw via NETeller and the casino would be breaking English law - they'd have to check somehow.

Makes sense if NETeller and the casinos work together on this though from all parties POV. Would save the player doing it again and thus they would be happier to play there. Plus NETeller would see more revenue throughput and the casino would have managed expectations successfully. IE: seamless and hassle-free.

That said, one assumes there would still be a delay while details were checked maybe unless NETeller provided an automated method for the casino to check the "certification" status of a NETeller player.

As an aside, there is a proposed change to English law allowing casinos to take USA citizen bets but whether it actually goes through is another matter!

PS. I kinda wanted the answer to be factual rather than speculative. We all know there are personal opinions on the subject of ID.
 
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lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Simmo! said:
You wouldn't actually need to do that L. I can see where Ted's coming from here i think. You can still open a Real Account at a UK casino pretending to be from England (rather than the USA, say) and deposit/withdraw via NETeller

Also you have to remember that BEFORE Neteller approves your account they put pennies into your bank account, which you have to verify and then they DEMAND a phone call from you with the Secure info from your Neteller account. If there is any doubt from where the phone call is coming from Neteller will insist that they call you back. PLUS, Neteller tracks your IP address. So, if you're from the U.S. and you sign up stating you're from England the IP will not be an IP from Europe it will be from the U.S.


PS. I kinda wanted the answer to be factual rather than speculative. We all know there are personal opinions on the subject of ID.

I agree. there are too many what if's. I am speacking of fact not fiction.
I've never attempted to open an account at 32red because I knew that my account would not be permited. There are too many good casinos here to play at that will accept my money.
 

Chill

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Location
Norway
If casinos are so bloody conserned about being ripped of, then why don't all new accounts get locked upfront until proper ID check is done? They have NO problems accepting $1000 when some new player deposits, but when the same player tries to withdraw the $1000 he is suddenly an evil person trying to stiff the casino until he proves otherwise.
 
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