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icelandbingo.com bad practises

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by tonyuk, Oct 13, 2012.

    Oct 13, 2012
  1. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    Hi,


    I am posting this to warn others.

    I joined icelandbingo.com, deposited the £10 and played. won a bit of money around £90 then checked there terms and conditions.
    it read
    "Prior to first withdrawal, a deposit of at least £20 must be made and played with"
    The terms I read was here, You must register/login in order to see the link.
    (you can see where i have ringed on the screen shot or should they update there terms could always look at one of the sites that catch screenshots of websites)

    Anyway, I checked with staff in the bingo room if I can deposit another £10 and play it can I withdraw and they told me yes as it will amount to £20.

    I deposited the other £10 in good faith, played a while with it, went to withdraw and there withdrawal form said I have to deposit minimum of £30 before withdraw.
    Chat help told me thats wrong, it is in fact £20 and there should be no reason i can't withdraw.

    After about an hour of being in chat help I was asked to send screen shots of what I could see.

    Today I got a responce saying

    Dear Tony

    Alias: ****
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Thank you for contacting Bingo Support; I am Kareem the Member Support Representative that will be addressing you today.

    In regards to your withdrawal query Tony, please note that you must make a total deposit of £30 before you can withdraw as per our terms and conditions.

    Upon review of your account I am seeing you have deposited £20 thus far, therefore you will need to deposit another £10 before you can withdraw and the minimum amount you can withdraw is £20.

    Congratulations on your winnings and remember deposit the minimum £20 and you will receive a 50 %bonus.

    I hope the above has addressed your query and you will continue to experience the best in bingo gaming anywhere online.

    Invite your friends to our site! You can get 5000 LPs just by referring a friend to our site. Click on the Refer-A-Friend option on our website and start earning those points today!!

    Have a great day Tony!

    Thank you for being our member and for the confidence you have placed in us. Please contact us whenever we can be of further service.

    Kind regards,
    Kareem .J
    Bingo Support Agent
    This email is not visible to you.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Yet it don't say it's £30 in there terms, it still says £20.

    I have tried ringing them and he was totally unhelpful and even when he found where it says "Prior to first withdrawal, a deposit of at least £20 must be made and played with" he was unhelpful and snooty.

    I have played of the bit I won now as there was no way I could trust them enough to deposit more.


    I have screenshots of all larger size wins, temrs, chat and everything if needed.


    Tony.





    icelandbingo.com bad practises: terms.jpg,Oct 13, 2012
     
  2. Oct 13, 2012
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Typical changing the goalposts strategy, a bad sign of things to come. Notice also their keenness for you to be saddled with a 50% bonus for depositing 20, which would probably tie your withdrawal to further WR.

    You could deposit another 10 and again ask for the withdrawal. What they do then will be either inconclusive, or damning evidence of them deliberately stalling on withdrawals. If you do get paid, find another bingo room.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Oct 13, 2012
  5. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    I lost faith in them after my second deposit so no way I was going to deposit another £10, I decided to cut my losses and just play of the bit I won and never deposit there again.

    Funny though, I have been going to iceland stores for over 20 year spending about £20 on average a week, thats around £20'800, and they didn't want me to withdraw a few quid, well they not getting no more out of us.

    Still getting promotion codes comming through email though trying to get me to deposit more
     
  6. Oct 13, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Are you certain the site has anything to do with the stores?
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Oct 13, 2012
  9. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    Oh yes, deffo the same company, even if it is separate branches I still want nothing to do with them
     
  10. Oct 13, 2012
  11. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You must register/login in order to see the link.: "The trade and domain name Iceland Bingo / Bingo Iceland is used under license from Iceland Foods Limited."
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Oct 13, 2012
  13. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    I never thought of looking on the actual site for that info, I spent ages looking on google for it :D
     
  14. Oct 13, 2012
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Try contacting trading standards. The terms clearly state £20, and so they should honour it. They could be in violation of the unfair business practices act by changing the term to £30 without making this change to the terms shown to players when they sign up. You could also complain to Iceland head office (not the store) about this issue.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 13, 2012
  17. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    Thanks for that I will try and find trading standards number and ring them first thing monday morning. Can't see the number anywhere for the head office though :-(


    I know it's only a small amount we talking about here but it's the principle of it.

    Tony :)
     
  18. Oct 13, 2012
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Iceland probably don't publish head office numbers, but you should be able to write to them, maybe even email them. The board decided to license their name to a bingo site that operates like this, so they should have vetted it better.

    It is deceptive, maybe another "unfair business practice", as such an agreement allows a business a degree of credibilty it may not deserve, and probably would not get were it not able to ride upon the brand and reputation of a well known and trusted company. Whether the directors of Iceland give a toss is a different matter, but you could always tell them that if you can't trust their bingo site, how can they expect you to trust any of their other businesses - then just wait for your £50 Iceland gift card as a gesture of good will;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Oct 13, 2012
  21. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    It's the name Icland bingo is what made me trust them in the first place and deposit, How wrong was I!


    £50 Iceland gift card haha I doubt I would get a penny out of them how they have been, Even though I had about £90 winnings, £50 was all I was trying to withdraw from there bingo site.

    Well, looks like Farmfoods have now gained a loyal customer.
     
  22. Oct 14, 2012
  23. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    An update email from them admitting it's a typographical error




    Hello Tony,

    Alias: tonyleicester

    Thank you for contacting Bingo Support. My name is H-Ann and I am happy to assist today.

    Tony, we are sorry to hear that you feel this way and saddened that you would like to leave us here on Iceland bingo.

    In regards to your query, please note that the amount of £20 that is stated under the Banking terms and conditions is a typographical error. We are currently working to have this corrected to reflect the correct amount of £30.

    This is the reason the Cashier is not allowing you to complete the withdrawal. Also please if you wish you can review the withdrawal terms and conditions where you will see the correct amount of £30 as the deposited amount need before a withdrawal can be made. Please see the link before if you wish to review the withdrawal terms and conditions.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    We do apologize for any inconveniences and do hope that this helps to resolve your query.

    £1,000 of free bingo each week for Iced Gems Club members, every Tuesday and Saturday!

    Thank you for being our member and for the confidence you have placed in us. Please contact us whenever we can be of further service.


    Kind regards,
    H-Ann J.
    Member Support Representative
    This email is not visible to you.
     
  24. Oct 16, 2012
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    H-Ann Jobsworth:rolleyes:


    It is a purely arbitrary figure, each casino has something different. They should honour the £20 as it was THEIR mistake, and they should "eat" the consequences, not the player. It doesn't even matter, as with £20 they have already thoroughly verified the deposit method. Merchants outside of the online casino industry routinely verify a purchase method with a £1 pre-authorisation which drops off after a few days.

    Whether £30 or £3, the purpose of making a verification deposit has been served, and no additional gain is to be had from making the OP deposit a third tenner.

    What other "typographical errors" do they have in the terms which will still be considered binding on the player even though not published? We have had rogue casinos use this same excuse to implement an unpublished rule that strips a player of their winnings when they can find no other reason not to pay a player that has won a "cheeky amount" early in the life of their account.

    They won't get this past Trading Standards, as any mistake has to be "bleedin' obvious" to the average consumer if it is to be used to back out of a contract, such as listing a 60 Inch LED 3D TV at £100 instead of £10000 with the website processing the order for a £100 payment. There have been a few cases of online stores selling items stupidly cheap due to a website error. They have then used this "should have been obvious it was a mistake" rule to then void the contract of sale made through the site. Where the mistake has not been obvious, they have had to follow through with the agreed sale and "eat" the loss themselves.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Oct 16, 2012
  27. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    Well I have contacted Trading Standards and they have told me basically that if they don't stick to there TOS typographical error or not then they are in breach of the contract as in affect the TOS is the contract between you and them.

    Anyhow, the Trading Standards did visit the page while I was on the phone and see it's STILL saying £20 instead of £30 and they have taken a screen shot and are looking into it.


    I have tried ringing head office of iceland it's self and have been told there isn't actually a head office for icelandbingo.com only a support number.

    I have rang support again only to be told once more its a typographical error that is being looked into although he did say he would pass my details along to the technical team?


    I am going to follow this through and with the information I have been told by Trading Standards possible take them to court for breach of contract. I'm not bothered if I end up out of pocket because its the principle of it.

    Please be warned, bingoiceland.com are the worst site/casino/bingo I have ever joined with regards to getting help with anything out of the ordinary and it just seems like they have nobody what-so-ever that is able to help with something like this.
     
  28. Oct 16, 2012
  29. Cryptic

    Cryptic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    I'm afraid you are wasting your time as the site is operated by a wholly-owned subsidiary of Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Limited.

    Taken from the About Us page-:

    The games on this website are powered by Dragonfish, the independent B2B division of 888 Holdings Plc and brand behind Brigend Limited. Brigend Limited is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Limited both of whom are companies registered in Gibraltar.

    ....

    The trade and domain name Iceland Bingo / Bingo Iceland is used under license from Iceland Foods Limited.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Oct 16, 2012
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Typical - that explains everything.

    Whilst Trading Standards can probably do very little, they CAN make a formal record of the fact that a UK Whitelisted online casino is in flagrant breach of UK laws. It will then be a case of "revenge is best served cold", as any repercussions are unlikely to bite until the new UK regulations come into force, which will do away with the automatic right to advertise in UK media for whitelisted operations. This would hurt Cassava, as their 888 casino brand and poker brand are heavily into advertising on UK Television, even sponsoring some programs. What is now needed is MORE UK players who feel they have been screwed over by Cassava to make a formal complaint to Trading Standards. This will put further pressure on Cassava because there will be evidence of a systematic policy of disregarding UK consumer protection laws, not just an isolated case or two.

    If Trading Standards have themselves gone to the website and found that the terms STILL say £20, this will carry far more weight than you providing your own screenshot, which Cassava could claim was taken long ago when £20 was the correct figure, or that you have "photoshopped" it to replace £30 with £20.

    It doesn't take long to change £20 to £30, and Trading Standards will see this as even MORE damning because they insist on applying the £30 rule, yet seem unwilling to treat changing the terms to reflect this as a priority.

    The GRA will probably find in favour of Cassava, but now you SHOULD make a formal complaint to the GRA, and when they make a decision, forward it to Trading Standards. If the GRA come to the opposite conclusion to that of Trading Standards, it will be the GRA in the proverbial dock, not just Cassava.

    Don't waste your money taking them to court, deposit the extra tenner and submit a withdrawal. Let Trading Standards know whether they paid, or just invented yet another reason why they couldn't.

    This could do far more damage than a court case or bitching on the internet to give them bad PR. Trading Standards have to publish the outcomes of formal complaints, as do the ASA (another organisation you can complain to, backed by the fact that Trading Standards believe they should honour the terms as printed). The ASA can nuke their UK media campaign by serving a "cease" notice on any advertisement that misrepresents the offering. This would include the "smallprint" associated with any offer, so having this say that £20, not £30, is required in deposits would result in a formal notice from the ASA to change the website or cease advertising in UK media any welcome offer that includes this erroneously published term.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Oct 17, 2012
  33. icelandbingo

    icelandbingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Iceland Bingo Manager
    Location:
    London
    Hi tonyuk,

    Firstly, I would like to apologise for the poor customer service you have received and thank you for bringing this to our attention. I can confirm that there was an error on the system, which for a short time changed the minimum amount you must deposit in order to make a withdrawal to £30 rather than the £20 stated in the withdrawal terms found here - You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This error has now been resolved and you will be able to withdraw funds from your account, assuming you have deposited a minimum of £20.

    Once again, I apologise for your bad experience, both on site and at a customer service level. We will be speaking to those involved to ensure this does not happen again and you can expect to be contacted in the coming days by the customer service support team with an apology, and will also be contacting others that have been affected. We will also be crediting your account with £10 free bingo bonus money as a gesture of goodwill and hope that you will give Iceland Bingo another try.

    Regards,
    Iceland Bingo
     
  34. Oct 17, 2012
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Too late!

    Trading Standards are now involved.

    There were plenty of opportunities for CS to realise what the problem was, yet they doggedly stuck to their guns about it being £30. The cynics will believe that the backtrack from the "deposit £30" is because Trading Standards have been involved, rather than a belated realisation of an error. We now know that this is a Cassava operation, which is another reason to avoid it.

    CS should have checked with management before making the position final to the player, which is the "deadlock" position needed to take the complaint to a third party.

    How many other decisions have Cassava got wrong, yet have not corrected (clue - read a few other threads).
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Oct 18, 2012
  37. tonyuk

    tonyuk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    Ok, below is the email I got,
    Now correct me if i'm wrong but after reading 3 times I couldn't see an apology in there?
    £10 bingo bonus after the pain in the behind job it's been getting any help at all from you?

    No thanks

    You keep your bingo bonus and I will keep my money in my pocket and use one of the accredited casino's here.

    And well done, even though you only use Iceland name by license. you have lost them a loyal long term customer of over 20 years as I feel I can't trust them either now for licensing there name to a company without adequate research into there background.

    I am forwarding all emails, screenshots of your terms and wins I had got at the time of withdrawal to the gaming commission, Trading standards and via link from some of my own websites and anything else I can possibly do that my legal adviser says I can do without getting in trouble myself.

    I believe in fair play, I have lost 1000's at casino's over the years and never complained once but If I do win (and was such a small amount) I expect to be paid.


    Oh and 1 more thing, I'm going to contact my bank today and see about getting my £20 back as I have been told by a professional in this field that as I deposited that money in good faith using your terms and as they was wrong the deposit becomes void I can legally request it be returned.





    Anyway, here is the email with no apology in it.



    .......................................................................................

    Dear Tony,

    Thank you for contacting us.

    My name is Nadiah, the Senior Bingo Support Agent here at Bingo Iceland and I am contacting you to provide you with an update regarding the withdrawal issue you have brought to our attention.

    I am pleased to advise that the issue has now been resolved and you should now be able to request withdrawals from your Bingo Iceland account without any restrictions. Further to this, we have added a £10 bonus to your account as a goodwill gesture in appreciation of your membership. These funds are available to you on your next log-in for you to enjoy a few games on the house.

    Your satisfaction is our top priority and we are always willing to listen and understand our member's needs and concerns. We value your time and thank you for your patience. We are always available for your comments, so please feel free to contact us whenever we may be of further assistance.


    Kind regards,
    Nadiah.J
    Senior Bingo Support Agent
    This email is not visible to you.
     
  38. Oct 18, 2012
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Whilst you are in the right, and entitled to do this, going ahead is going to make your life HELL because you will have to explain to many other casinos why you are on the "chargeback blacklist". For a mere £20, it just isn't worth it.

    You should give Iceland bingo the opportunity to return your £20 voluntarily, and simply sending them a copy of what you received from trading standards should do the trick.

    I agree, not a hint of an apology in that email, not even an admission that they made a mistake. All they say is that a "problem has been resolved" and you can now withdraw. In fact, why not simply withdraw now, no need to deposit another penny. They have already dug themselves into a hole, and you can be 99% sure they WILL pay without a fuss.

    You can still tell your story, and provided you can back it up with evidence, you cannot be taken to court for libel (the defence against libel being to show that what you published is true). The Gambling Commission can do nothing but take your report as "feedback" on how the current system is performing, and they already agree it isn't fit for purpose in terms of player protection.

    A more effective measure would be to send your story and evidence to Iceland (the stores) HQ, and point out that this incident has lost them a customer of 20 years standing, having broken your trust in the company as a whole. Maybe they will take more care in future when licensing their brand to third party operations.
     
    2 people like this.

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