I need this question answered please!!!!!!

[Baldy420]

So I started this whole internet gambling thing about a year ago and have done nothing but lost my Arsh. I am going to make this as short as possible but I need to know whats right and what I should do if I have been victimized.

I played at Villento time and time again only to one day hit for over $12,000. When I went in to the online casino chat support and asked how to withdraw my money ( never do I get the opportunity to withdraw, always lose ) I was told none of the options on the website for U.S. Players were available any longer but Click2Pay. Well I realized I had a problem months before and contacted all the Ewallet companies and asked for my account to be closed for good as a way for me to try and stop myself. SO I knew my Click2Pay account was closed and if they had no other way for me to withdraw my money what could I do? I have it on screenshot of me asking what to do, them telling me that I was more or less S.O.L. and pissed off. My name is even posted on the website as a big winner and yet I was not able to withdraw my winnings. The Casino never informed of any banking changed by email or updated the website saying that Click2Pay was only method left for U.S. players to withdraw winnings. In fact the site still said that E-Check, Instadebit, Bank Wire, Check, ACH & Click2Pay and a few others were still available. Pissed off realizing most casinos are closing down U.S. members for good I thought I was screwed and spun my winnings away playing $75 spins until it was all gone about 15 mins later.

Two or Three days later I am informed by Villento Mgmt that ACH is now available again so if I win I can now withdraw it?????? I have everything logged and screenshots taken and not once did they mention the possibility of it becoming available again. How do I even know that it truly was not available? Why was an email not sent out informing all these methods were no longer available? They continued to say that the U.S. laws stopped them from doing ACH's. Yet 3 days later they not are able to do them again? What did the U.S. laws give them permission again to do ACH's? They could not send out an email or update the website letting players know of this prior to depositing money, surely if it was a new deposit method everyone would of notified!!!!!!!

Sorry, guess this isn't so short.... Anyways, I felt I was screwed over and they say because I lost it all, their is no way for me to be compensated. I thought the money was as good as dead money and as pissed off as I was and thinking it was never going to be given to me I played it out of frustation as I think many would of done.

 

[dominique]

That is a sad story indeed.

Due to UIGEA payment methods have become very fragile. The casinos do try to pay, and sometimes windows open for transfers for short periods of time.

The thing to do is to sit still and send an occasional reminder. If you play at reputable casinos you should get your money when they can send.

The casinos are constantly looking for methods to get your money to you, it is hurting their business big time to have things like this happen.

Your story is so sad because you felt you had to play the win away... maybe you can still find a way to settle if you talk to them a little more.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Case

Here we have a case of a compulsive gambler who finally got the big "rescue hit" and wanted to withdraw it. Only then were they informed that the website was wrong, and only Click2Pay was available. The CS gave this information as though this was final, with there being no hope for payment. The CS failed this player badly, as they should have encouraged the player to sit tight, as management were always looking for new ways to effect payment.
Naturally, as a compulsive gambler, the thought that the money was pretty useless meant that this player, with compulsion ruling over common sense, just wanted rid of the $12,000 so they could uninstall the casino and forget all about it.
Now, the CS start communicating the changes to the player, telling them that ACH has suddenly become available, naturally, this has made Villento look like the biggest rogue on the planet to this player.

Villento are not alone though, time and time again we have casinos taking deposits from US players, bending over backwards to promote a new deposit method when it becomes available, but nowhere near as efficient when telling the US players about changes to withdrawals. The change to Click2Pay only, an ewallet that will NOT accept any new players, is a very significant change, as it effectively means the casino simply cannot pay any player with either no current Click2Pay account, or a closed one.

For ANY US player who finds themselves in this situation, DO NOT BLOW THE BANKROLL just because CS say they have no way to pay. Submit a withdrawal request, and uninstall the casino. Check on the rules for inactive accounts, if it is three months, say, just forget about the money other than a weekly reminder to the casino along the lines of "are other payment options now available" (you can't rely on them telling you unprompted).

Many players blow funds they believe cannot be withdrawn, where the amount is large, this is painful, and it is unlikely the casino will come to a settlement that replaces the original amount.

Casinos should stop leaving misinformation on their websites, if a payment method becomes unavailable, UPDATE THE DAMN WEBSITE, they are quick enough to update the rules when a loophole comes to their attention, so they can do it, they choose not to.

 

[Baldy420]

Well it's all true

Hopefully no family or friends will ever see this but the $12k was really nothing compared to my losses but I was intending for it to be the end of it all for me. ( I had already purchased Gamblock, talked my Fiance' in to not leaving me and wanted to leave this addiction on I can't say a good note but the best I could leave it on anyways. I have everything saved, everything, the worst part of it all is that I can't get Gerard ( Villento customer relations mgr) to admit I was screwed over. To just hear him say I got F'd would make it easier for me to deal with this but to hear him continuously pretend like Villento did nothing wrong is Craptacular.

What can I do??? I have screenshots of the employees admitting the website should of been updated. One person tried using a excuse that the withdrawal options were still posted on the website for members in other countries to use. Then I posted him the info off the website saying that ACH was for U.S. players only so he wasn't sure what to say then. I have all the postings by the manager ( Gerard )saying how it was the U.S. laws that stopped them from allowing ACH's, that their reps weren't at liberty to discuss the fact they were seeking new options for withdrawals, they all agree that it was very clear that they informed me Click2Pya was the only option at the time and no others were available. I even have a screenshot of the Villento support member saying that the website needs to be updated ( Funny, it is now! ). I have emails from different support memebers that all contradict each other. They say the withdrawal options that are available are posted on the site, some say the site needs to be updated, some say they

So on top of it all, I really did close all my accounts, Navajo Networks, Neteller, Moneybookers, Payspark, My Citadel, Click2Pay before they cut us off mandatory. I guess through it all I had an open debt remaining with Click2Pay for $299 that was unpaid leaving my account open. I thought it was closed with all the rest. Villentos mgr Gerard was actually able to have Click2Pay tell him my account status and what I owed and to where it was originated from. Is it right for Click2Pay to give this info out to anyone that asks? I have a copy of the email I sent to Click2Pay asking for my account to be closed and they ask you if you want it to be permanently closed or not. I said yes so I didn't even think to check with them. I struggled so hard to try and have Neteller reopen my account ( when they still allowed U.S. players )and I got no where so I didn't bother trying with any others.

 

[Baldy420]

Sorry to post so much, this has made me lose sleep

This is parts of the long email the manager at Villento emailed to me after I told them I was going to dispute charges because I feel I was done wrong. He was quick to reply back to me and here are some of the things that does not seem to convince me I am wrong for believing I was done wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Jeremy,

Unfortunately you have made very serious statements that you will dispute the charges made on your credit cards, not because you did not make the purchases, but because you were not able to make a withdrawal when you wanted to.

In order to avoid this matter reaching a more significant point, our ecash company has requested that we provide you with the following version of facts and events and necessary course of action that they will be required to follow;

1) On 2/8/2007 you made an enquiry about making a withdrawal.

2) In discussions with one of our operators, you were made aware of the temporary setback whereby we were unable to process payments to USA payers by ACH.

[Recently long term ACH partners terminated their services to USA players. This affected most online casinos servicing the USA. This loss was temporary as new ACH relationships were set up in a matter of days.]

3) At no time was there an inability to make payments to players. There are always means and methods. The important part is finding the right method that a player is comfortable with.

11) Your indications of attempting to dispute the deposits is entirely surprising to us as;

a) We would have worked with you to find a satisfactory method of withdrawal,

b) ACH facilities became available very soon and this information would have been made available to you had you indeed made a withdrawal. ( And I am supposed to be a Psychic?

You did not actually make a withdrawal,

d) There was definitely the ability to settle the $299 outstanding with Click2 Pay and in turn receive a larger cash withdrawal.

e) A number of options were available to you and we would have worked with you to find the best solution. ( This is where I wish it wasn't all online but that I was told this in person!!! )

 

[Baldy420]

I've been wanting to write this for some time now

Sorry for anyone that I just bored but I had to write it. I wonder all the time if ACH was even really down. I think most players having the thought that they will not be able to withdraw their money would end up spending it. He knew that I had an issue with my CLick2Pay account because he always asked why I didn't use it. I always thought and told Villento that it was permanently closed like I thought. Also funnt how as soon as my money was gone, well the next day anyways magically ACH is available again!!!!

If anyone read my entire post and has any suggestions other than telling me I'm screwed I'd love to hear it. Maybe any further complaints I should make somewhere or anything. If I am in the wrong then tell me. Is this something that can be disputed legally? They obviously were not completely legal with false/inaccurate info on their website.

 

[Dekon]

Baldy420,
Unfortunately I don't have the answers, maybe someone here does. I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in the future as your story is too sad. Hope you get some satisfaction here and there at the casino .
I find this forum as entertaining as the casinos anyway.
Good Luck

 

[mikepipe]

well, there is one very useful post in it.
Thats the one of vwm.
the rest is sad.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Gotcha!

This is the most damning bit:-
"their reps weren't at liberty to discuss the fact they were seeking new options for withdrawals"

We now have evidence that CS are TOLD by management to hide from depositing US players that a problem has occured with withdrawal methods. Did this extend to banning agents from updating the website to reflect this, as well as telling the players.

The fact that they were able to get such intimate detail from Click2Pay without the players permission is just incredible, but fits other posted allegations about how Click2Pay have been misusing personal information belonging to players.

The casino is pretty scared of players making chargebacks by disputing the purchases, citing that you did indeed intentionally make the deposits. The crux of the matter is that when these deposits were made, they formed a contratual agreement that lasted till the point at which you ceased play, which in this case was when you asked to withdraw. The casino's breach was in changing the terms of withdrawal, but failing to forward these to players, and aggravated by telling reps to withhold said information.

What casinos really should worry about is that, in your position baldy420, you have absolutely nothing to lose by disputing the charges. At worst, the card company will rule they should stand, however, they could very well rule that the charges were illegal, and thus in breach of the terms for the card (online gambling), and will recover them all. After all, the problems of withdrawing are all down to the fact that these transactions have been believed to be illegal for some time, and actually became illegal last October, and where deposits from US cards to casinos have worked, this has been due to deliberately disguising the nature of the transactions from the card issuer.
You will, of course, end up being put on the negative database for disputing these charges, but as a compulsive gambler this would actually do you a favour, as gamblock or not, you will not be welcome at any online casinos in the future.

 

[KasinoKing]

Sorry for anyone that I just bored but I had to write it. I wonder all the time if ACH was even really down. I think most players having the thought that they will not be able to withdraw their money would end up spending it. He knew that I had an issue with my CLick2Pay account because he always asked why I didn't use it. I always thought and told Villento that it was permanently closed like I thought. Also funny how as soon as my money was gone, well the next day anyways magically ACH is available again!!!!

If anyone read my entire post and has any suggestions other than telling me I'm screwed I'd love to hear it. Maybe any further complaints I should make somewhere or anything. If I am in the wrong then tell me. Is this something that can be disputed legally? They obviously were not completely legal with false/inaccurate info on their website.

I've read all your posts and it is a very sad story.

VWM's replies are spot on, as usual. I don't know how long you have been a 'lurker' at CM, but if you had visited regularly you probably would have known about the problems casinos are having with USA payments earlier.
Not your fault, of course. I'm sure many people here don't even think that the vast majority of casino players never visit a gambling forum such as this one, and so are isolated from what's going on in the industry. All they see is what the casino is telling them at the time.

That is the saddest part - if you had posted here for advice before you went & blew your stack I'm certain you would have been told that Villento are a reputable casino and that you should sit tight & work out a solution to your payment issue.

I'm afraid that you are now SOL and all you can do is appeal to Villento for some sort of recompense, but I think it very unlikely you will get anywhere.

Even had you not admitted it, it is fairly obvious you have a serious self-control problem and if this sad affair is the final straw which helps you regain control of this part of your life, at least it will be not all bad.

I wish you the very best of luck for the future.
KK.