I don't like a Redbet bonus term

[Jufo]

Wow.

These AP's must really be getting desperate asking for refunds from 2011 Must be a lack of loopholes around to exploit at the moment.

If Andy looks across my accounts at Redbet and Whitebet he would hardly consider me an AP.

 

[Redbet-Andy]

If Andy looks across my accounts at Redbet and Whitebet he would hardly consider me an AP.

God bless you for having a go but there's no way I'm requesting detailed play accounts from our supplier dating back to August 2011 in order to review your single deposit because you're telling me you broke the T&Cs and so, based on taking one line of a discussion I had with a player, (a discussion which occurred 18 months after you had played and which was later qualified), you'd like your money back.

 

[Jufo]

God bless you for having a go but there's no way I'm requesting detailed play accounts from our supplier dating back to August 2011 in order to review your single deposit because you're telling me you broke the T&Cs and so, based on taking one line of a discussion I had with a player, (a discussion which occurred 18 months after you had played and which was later qualified), you'd like your money back.

If I am really honest, I am more interested in honesty than the refund itself.

There is a difference between the above statement and this one:

SirWegs: Do they give back the money to everyone who lost?
Redbet-Andy: Yes, of course we do!

Care to elaborate on this?

 

[Casinomeister]

@ Jufo

Please do not insult your fellow members - thank you. Also, what is the point of your grievance? You've pretty much hijacked this thread with what seems to be a personal vendetta. What's the beef? (issue)

 

[Borgie]

Am I getting this right, you lost all your money without trying to cashout but think you should be refunded cause you played over the max bet rule and so wouldnt of been able to cash out any winnings anyway

@ OP - Unbelievable !!! From 2011 !! I really am lost for words

 

[mimi26]

Jufo, you are sounding totally unreasonable asking for a deposit back from 18 months ago, because you broke the rules. If I am honest its quite unbelievable

 

[bsilva028]

i think, that if some player made a genuine mistake, the player knows in the time that he/she do the mistake.

and if wanna a "2nd chance" should ask in timely manner (like the players want to get paid too)(including me)....

now ask in 2011 a refund of 2011?
IMHO its ridiculous

 

[Sovietsky]

Help me out here.

One guy made a deposit 2011, broke the rules and now 2013 he wants his money back?
Thats one hell of a brain fart.

 

[Jufo]

i think, that if some player made a genuine mistake, the player knows in the time that he/she do the mistake.

and if wanna a "2nd chance" should ask in timely manner (like the players want to get paid too)(including me)....

now ask in 2011 a refund of 2011?
IMHO its ridiculous

The thing is: I wasn't ever going to ask for a refund or even thought that I should have one, until Redbet-Andy confirmed on 10th March 2013 in this thread that even losing players should be refunded if they inadvertently break the rules. Back then the max.bet rule was not included in promotional terms appropriately. The only reason I asked is because I saw this statement by Andy. Andy is still yet to elaborate on this.

 

[Borgie]

The thing is: I wasn't ever going to ask for a refund or even thought that I should have one, until Redbet-Andy confirmed on 10th March 2013 in this thread that even losing players should be refunded if they inadvertently break the rules. Back then the max.bet rule was not included in promotional terms appropriately. The only reason I asked is because I saw this statement by Andy. Andy is still yet to elaborate on this.

You really need to stop trying to make the Rep look bad here - you started posting "selected" parts of the messages you exchanged with him "privately" before you even asked if you could. He then gave you permission to post the whole of the PMs. He has been really reasonable with you. He has stated he is not prepared to go back to 2011 to look at an incident where YOU broke the rules.
TBH I see your persistence as ridiculous and as harassment of the Rep and I think you should stop .

 

[incrediblestuff]

First time i see an attempt to enforce "predatory terms" from a players side!

 

[vinylweatherman]

The thing is: I wasn't ever going to ask for a refund or even thought that I should have one, until Redbet-Andy confirmed on 10th March 2013 in this thread that even losing players should be refunded if they inadvertently break the rules. Back then the max.bet rule was not included in promotional terms appropriately. The only reason I asked is because I saw this statement by Andy. Andy is still yet to elaborate on this.

Andy also said that the rule would be applied on a case by case basis, so you cannot be certain that had you won, you would not have been paid.

This is more of a "fishing expedition" than a genuine grievance, trying to use a statement made in 2013 to change the outcome of something that happened in 2011. There is a principle that disputes should be raised within a reasonable time of the event. This principle even applies in the real world, for example, in the UK a debt that has not been pursued for more than 6 years is voided. If you want to dispute your taxes, you have to do so within 6 years, else tough luck.

It can be compared to the behaviour of "patent trolls" who ambush companies out of the blue for retrospective royalty payments for something that "everybody" has been doing for years, and which has become "standard practice". They are now in some pretty hot water it seems after pulling the stunt on the wrong company, and in particular, in front of the wrong judge.

 

[akrus88]

I just verified from Andy that his above statement is not actually true. I played the Redbet SUB back in 2011 and was unaware of the 5€ max.bet rule. Searching around different forums and Gambling Grumbles showed that the max. bet rule was not included within the Promotional terms at the time but was rather hidden somewhere in general terms of use. It can be reasonably expected that a vital term like this should be mentioned in the specific Promotional terms.

I played the SUB, bet more than 5€ on several occasions and lost in the end. Based on Andy's reply above I contacted him about whether I should be refunded back my deposit or be allowed to re-play the bonus from beginning as I was effectively put in a lose-lose situation and he replied: No.

I quess you did not seriously thought Andy was being serious about that? You are just bullying him for being sarcastic.
No one in their right mind would think casinos would refund loosing deposits if t&c has been broken. That is the stubidest thing I have heard in ages..

 

[Nifty29]

Here is an excellent example of the point I was making in the recent Inetbet thread I.e. that once you bend the rules in the slightest for a player the vultures and APs will be all over you like a cheap suit.

I'm pretty sure I had one spin of Fruit Fiesta in 2006 on a non-progressive no bonus. I'm off to chase the rep right now to get my deposit back.

 

[Jufo]

This is more of a "fishing expedition" than a genuine grievance, trying to use a statement made in 2013 to change the outcome of something that happened in 2011. There is a principle that disputes should be raised within a reasonable time of the event. This principle even applies in the real world, for example, in the UK a debt that has not been pursued for more than 6 years is voided. If you want to dispute your taxes, you have to do so within 6 years, else tough luck.

Well, 2011 is far less than 6 years ago. In fact I remember pretty well which slots I played in the Redbet SUB and what bet sizes I used. So to me it doesn't feel like long time ago. I also found out that there even was a 5€ max bet rule in place about 6 months after playing - it was too well hidden for me to spot it when I signed-up. Since the rep didn't agree refunding losing players until 2013, I couldn't contact him before that. Also, I am a sloth.

Here is an excellent example of the point I was making in the recent Inetbet thread I.e. that once you bend the rules in the slightest for a player the vultures and APs will be all over you like a cheap suit.

If I read a comment by a rep who confirms that I might be eligible for a reimbursement, is it wrong to ask him? And then post about the result.

I quess you did not seriously thought Andy was being serious about that? You are just bullying him for being sarcastic.

If he was never serious and was being sarcastic I really hope he would have just told me that and resolve the issue instead of keep avoiding my question.

 

[dionysus]

If I read a comment by a rep who confirms that I might be eligible for a reimbursement, is it wrong to ask him? And then show that the comment was just hot air all along.

sorry, but (IMHO) there's a HUGE difference in a rep willing to bend over backwards for a player and him saying 'please, while yer there, f** me twice silly'

you're taking advantage of his goodwill
let it go
get over it
move on

 

[chayton]

TBH I think that the rep even looking at a case-by-case issue of someone breaking the term to be pretty amazing. Imagine this, I'm an advantage player, I make a big deposit, take a big sub and play it to the edge of the max bet til I'm almost sunk, then 'accidentally' bet more than max and then go cry "oopsie, I accidentally broke the term, can you give me a do-over?"

Seriously though, I bet people have tried it, right Andy? It's like back when the issue with CWC came up, you could play and if you win, cash out - if you lose just tell them you're a student and get your deposit back. No risk gambling.

 

[Redbet-Andy]

TBH I think that the rep even looking at a case-by-case issue of someone breaking the term to be pretty amazing. Imagine this, I'm an advantage player, I make a big deposit, take a big sub and play it to the edge of the max bet til I'm almost sunk, then 'accidentally' bet more than max and then go cry "oopsie, I accidentally broke the term, can you give me a do-over?"

Seriously though, I bet people have tried it, right Andy? It's like back when the issue with CWC came up, you could play and if you win, cash out - if you lose just tell them you're a student and get your deposit back. No risk gambling.

They've tried it for sure.

I don't think it's fair on people who make a genuine mistake to put a blanket no-compromise rule on this.
It's fairer to look at it case by case where requested, and it's pretty easy to spot anyone trying to abuse it.
Luckily we're small enough to still be able to do that when requested. I fully understand other operators who are more rigid.

 

[chayton]

Yes for now it's good and I'm sure that people who do make that honest mistake appreciate it. Maybe one day you'll have to take a harder line and then everyone will complain about it. lol.

The thing about losing players getting a do-over though, I'm confused about something. If they're not cashing out then the casino won't check their playthrough and know they bet over the max...if they're honest players they won't realize that they broke a term so won't contact you about it. If they knowingly break the term then they will...?

 

[Jufo]

TBH I think that the rep even looking at a case-by-case issue of someone breaking the term to be pretty amazing. Imagine this, I'm an advantage player, I make a big deposit, take a big sub and play it to the edge of the max bet til I'm almost sunk, then 'accidentally' bet more than max and then go cry "oopsie, I accidentally broke the term, can you give me a do-over?"

Yes this is a valid point and thus the operator can verify from playlogs whether something like this happened.

In my case I actually overbet at the exact opposite moment, when I was already significantly ahead from smaller bets so it can be ruled out that that the situation you described (an AP shot) applies in my case. I happened to overbet at a moment where it couldn't have possibly benefited me in any way.

The thing about losing players getting a do-over though, I'm confused about something. If they're not cashing out then the casino won't check their playthrough and know they bet over the max...if they're honest players they won't realize that they broke a term so won't contact you about it. If they knowingly break the term then they will...?

I didn't know that I had broken a term until six months later when I read that Redbet had 5€ max bet rule sneakily hidden in the general terms. So I would have never found out unless I read about it on forums later.

 

[Balthazar]

I fully understand other operators who are more rigid.

You shouldn't, though. If their player base is so big that they don't have time to look on each case then they should have the money to hire someone to do it. Terms should be there to protect the casino and not to entrap players and/or used as a way to void legit winnings.

With that said, would it be that hard for NetEnt, MGS and RTG to do like Rival and block certain games and limit the bet size on bonuses?

 

[chayton]

Another thing, I bet new players who aren't used to the games always defaulting to max bet whenever you load them quite often bet max by mistake. I was playing once at another NetEnt and reset my bet to the size I wanted, then decided to maximize the game and hit spin without realizing that it had changed to max bet again. Of course it would have been fine if I'd won something, but I'm not lucky like that.

 

[Redbet-Andy]

Yes for now it's good and I'm sure that people who do make that honest mistake appreciate it. Maybe one day you'll have to take a harder line and then everyone will complain about it. lol.

The thing about losing players getting a do-over though, I'm confused about something. If they're not cashing out then the casino won't check their playthrough and know they bet over the max...if they're honest players they won't realize that they broke a term so won't contact you about it. If they knowingly break the term then they will...?

Yes you're right.
The main reason we're flexible about the term is to not penalise winning players who make a mistake.
Say you win 3k but you have a spin for 6 euros in the middle of it by mistake it would be a massive kick in the teeth to have all the winnings denied.
I know it happens but that's the real reason for the flexible approach.
It's unusual that a losing player will get in contact to say they broke the terms because:
A: They know about the term already, so why not stick to it.
B: Who checks terms after they have lost?
Therefore obviously it's going to be a much tougher case for losing players to make but we will look at case by case.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I didn't know that I had broken a term until six months later when I read that Redbet had 5€ max bet rule sneakily hidden in the general terms. So I would have never found out unless I read about it on forums later.

Bullshit. It's right there - plain as day.

General Bonus Terms

If nothing else is stated, the following rules apply to all bonuses.

• Bonuses can only be withdrawn after you've wagered the bonus money at least 35 times in our Casino. If you try to withdraw the bonus before, the bonus will be void and disappear from your account.
  
  
• The wagering requirement must have been cleared within 30 days of receiving the bonus to be valid.
• Gambling on Table Games, Poker Games and Video poker games does not count towards the bonus' wagering requirement. The only valid games are Classic Slots, Video Slots, Keno, Bingo, Golden Derby, Triple Wins, Cash Bomb, Zodiac, Tribble and Vault assault.
• Redbet reserves the right to deny or withdraw the offering at any time. No written correspondence will be initiated and Redbets' decisions are final.
• Redbet Gaming reserves the right to exclude a player from future bonuses if the majority of their deposits over time have utilised bonus offers.
• Only one use of this promotion is allowed per person, account, address, computer and IP address. Redbet reserves the right to close any account that is deemed a duplicate account, and to not pay out any bonus to this account.
• Please observe that it is not allowed to use the bonus money to play on any Table Games, Poker Games, Mega Joker, Jackpot 6000 or Video Poker games. Bonuses may not be used on jackpot games.
• All winnings as a result of betting, when having an active bonus, is considered bonus money and cannot be withdrawn until the original wagering requirement has been met.
  [*]There is a maximum stake of €5 per bet and 50c per bet line until the wagering requirement has been met. For the purposes of this rule a Bet is defined as one roulette spin, one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, one deal in any Video Poker, one spin on a slot machine, one lottery ticket or equivalent betting in the casino. Anyone exceeding this limit may be liable to have their winnings removed and the initial deposit and bonus reset.
• Redbet Gaming Ltd reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the customer or any person in the customers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sportsbetting and casino bonuses.
• Maximum cashout from any no-deposit welcome bonuses or free spins (excludes those associated with a deposit bonus) is €100.
• Tournaments are intended as added enjoyment for all of our players. Anyone deemed to be abusing tournaments may be denied future entry and winnings.

How in the hell is this "hidden"? You are implying that Redbet's management intended to trick players with a term that they "snuck" in. I already warned you about making troll posts. Please don't test my patience.

 

[Jufo]

Bullshit. It's right there - plain as day.

It wasn't there when I did the SUB in 2011.

It's unusual that a losing player will get in contact to say they broke the terms because:
A: They know about the term already, so why not stick to it.
B: Who checks terms after they have lost?
Therefore obviously it's going to be a much tougher case for losing players to make but we will look at case by case.

I have provided explanation why both A and B occured in my case. A occured because at the time the term wasn't in promotional terms. B occured because later I saw the max bet term at forums. So what did you look at in my case? I got the impression that you never looked into it.