I am more than 90% certain that all poker rooms are rigged

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You are a poor pitiful person. What is your point? My argument is based upon what is possible and what appears to be happening! You have not listened (or understood) what is being presented here.

Your attitude is poor and your level of understanding is weak at best! It is obvious that you lack the ability to understand anything but your point of view.

I'm afraid you have swallowed the online poker dribble hook, line and sinker!

PS Capped as you may say BUT......if (and what I see is so obvious), games are action heavy, more games per hour equals more rake per hour.....does it not??? Is that making any sense at all???


My point is that you have no real argument & I will go as far to say that it is you who fails to see anothers point of view.

Yes, more games per hour could mean more rake per hour. That proves that online is played quicker than live games.

More action does not necessarily mean more rake. A standard table may fold around a table. A game loaded with action with all 10 players paying into the pot, each player throwing $1000 into the pot, will only pay 30c in rake each. The hand may take 5 minutes to complete, which only works out at 6c a minute in rake per person. That looks pretty good value for a 10k pot.

PS. I am not taking your posts seriously. If you come up with a better argument, I may listen but you are blinkered to the point, you think everyone else is. Tunnel vision as you call it.:thumbsup:
 
Again you miss the point

My point is that you have no real argument & I will go as far to say that it is you who fails to see anothers point of view.

Yes, more games per hour could mean more rake per hour. That proves that online is played quicker than live games.

More action does not necessarily mean more rake. A standard table may fold around a table. A game loaded with action with all 10 players paying into the pot, each player throwing $1000 into the pot, will only pay 30c in rake each. The hand may take 5 minutes to complete, which only works out at 6c a minute in rake per person. That looks pretty good value for a 10k pot.

PS. I am not taking your posts seriously. If you come up with a better argument, I may listen but you are blinkered to the point, you think everyone else is. Tunnel vision as you call it.:thumbsup:


May I turn the argument back on you and say where is you evidence that there is no manipulation by the software? Just because sites operate gives no comfort to reputable enterprise! That is why we see so many of these sites operating offshore or Costa Rica. I think this forum and the need for casinomeister is enough evidence to prove my point. Besides I know what and how software is manipulted. Do you.?

Until you can have an open mind, I'm afraid beating a dead horse will achieve nothing
 
May I turn the argument back on you and say where is you evidence that there is no manipulation by the software?

The evidence is in the fact that they do not need to. It makes no sense to alter the play as it is. Rake may be a higher % of their bankroll to some people at lower stakes but the higher up you go, it tends to max out every hand anyway. Again if you play Hi/Low, the rake will likely max out every hand. Why try to manipulate a winning formula. It doesnt benefit anyone
 
WAKE UP

The evidence is in the fact that they do not need to. It makes no sense to alter the play as it is. Rake may be a higher % of their bankroll to some people at lower stakes but the higher up you go, it tends to max out every hand anyway. Again if you play Hi/Low, the rake will likely max out every hand. Why try to manipulate a winning formula. It doesnt benefit anyone


Gary, have you ever heard of the saying......."you cannot see the forest for the trees"? You are so blinded that you just cannot see the obvious! Again I stress to you, if all is above board as you say why do we have casinomeister?????

Now I want you to do a test for me. This will prove to you that the sites manipulate the games. I want you to play at Pokerstars. Can you do that for me? Just play the freerolls.OK

Now I want you to play Stud. I want you to pay particular notice to the cards you receive. Then after you are finished, I want you to play Razz. Again I want you to pay particular notice to the cards you receive.

According to you, if the cards have not been manipulated in anyway, you should receive similar cards in both games, am I right? My experience differs. In all the games I have played of each one I have found that quads and trips appear so often in Razz yet, appear to be missing in Stud! Now why would that be????

Now I want you to play two games of Hold'em at once. Keep both games open on the screen. My experience has shown some amazing patterns which include receiving at least one card the same in both games and noticing what appears on the board in one game rarely appears on the other, yet you have similar hands in both. Does that seem normal to you??

But what I find most frightening is the high level of predictability of outcomes after the flop after seeing players whole cards. This I cannot do in live games!

Online poker is no different to any software game in that in order to win you must first learn to master(cater to) its needs. There is no doubt that this is a form of trigger software, highly biased to encourage fast action and predictable outcomes.

Are you up to the challenge?


Oh and by the way, keep your eye on the cards you get whenever you are asked to "bring-in". Chances are you will never be able to play the hand once you get that honour - something that never seems to happen when i play both forms of the game live
 
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May I turn the argument back on you and say where is you evidence that there is no manipulation by the software? Just because sites operate gives no comfort to reputable enterprise! That is why we see so many of these sites operating offshore or Costa Rica. I think this forum and the need for casinomeister is enough evidence to prove my point. Besides I know what and how software is manipulted. Do you.?

Until you can have an open mind, I'm afraid beating a dead horse will achieve nothing
Well no it isn't, becasue Casinomeister was around and set-up in the days of online casinos (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

At that time there were no online poker rooms, and nor were there any poker sections within the whole of the Casinomeister site.

It is only latterly that poker has come more into this site, but you will note, that despite the sterling work that the 'Meister does in outing and rogueing shady casino operations, in poker it is incredibly rare, with AP being one of the very few. Even then there hasn't been a single case found ever of a site in someway rigging its software.

As you would say, that does I think prove a point?
 
Now I want you to do a test for me. This will prove to you that the sites manipulate the games. I want you to play at Pokerstars. Can you do that for me? Just play the freerolls.OK

How could anyone possibly tell anything playing free rolls? The play in free rolls is so erratic.

There are people (some that frequent this board) that are true professionals when it comes to analyzing play and software.

All the professionals will all tell you that there is NO WAY to tell if a software program is cheating unless you run tens if not hundreds of thousands of hands. So trying to analyze games by viewing two windows at the same time as you play is going to be about as accurate as a blind man in a pissing contest.

There are independent auditors that you can hire to check the validly and randomness of the games.

So if 90% of all poker rooms are rigged, why haven't a single one of these professional independent auditors spoken up about it?
 
No point - just a current observation

Well no it isn't, becasue Casinomeister was around and set-up in the days of online casinos (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

At that time there were no online poker rooms, and nor were there any poker sections within the whole of the Casinomeister site.

It is only latterly that poker has come more into this site, but you will note, that despite the sterling work that the 'Meister does in outing and rogueing shady casino operations, in poker it is incredibly rare, with AP being one of the very few. Even then there hasn't been a single case found ever of a site in someway rigging its software.

As you would say, that does I think prove a point?

Does this mean they don't? Just because someone has not put the money into cataloging and mapping hands from poker sites does not mean squeeky clean. The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America. You have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between live random poker and software written poker. They are TOTALLY different. There is no doubt that online poker is manipulated (because they can) for many reasons: a) to ensure quick results for tournament play (as they get no rake only entry fee)and: b) for ring games, the faster a hand is completed the more games are created in the hour and therefore more rake. Simple math and what I can see simple rationale.

You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and

2. Software manipulation ensures fast action and quick results ( I have seen so many setups where three players are all holding pocket pairs - ensuring an all-in scenarios - this is rare in live play, Quads appearing in 4 hands within an hour - never seen that in all my 30 years of playing live, flushs to make you think these are as common as pairs and to top it off, allinners getting runner, runner and winning against someone who has a st8 off the flop so many times it makes a mockery of the statistics of live play)

Without both above points working together, tourneys of this size would hold up the site for days.

I'm sorry but your argument is only based on your narrow view. However, any player of the live game would be very suspicious of the "spin" these online sites spew out, and be totally convinced of their charade once they have played online.

One day it will be proven. By the way, isn't poker run by random number generators like casino slots??? Hmmmm do I see something similar here????
 
Does this mean they don't? Just because someone has not put the money into cataloging and mapping hands from poker sites does not mean squeeky clean. The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America.
Have you read what anyone else has written here? Many players, and nearly all regular high volume internet players us PT to track play, it's why Absolute were rumbled. With the millions of hands that these players have on record, not a single one has ever found anything wrong with any of the current online poker rooms as far as the RNG goes. If you can provide evidence outside of "I was rivered by a one outer" then not only will you be the first, but you'll also achieve instant fame as the man who "cracked the internet poker conspiracy". Your fame will be instant, so get to it I urge you.

You have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between live random poker and software written poker. They are TOTALLY different.
Yup, one involves single tabling with live people and has a far greater emphasis on reading abilitiy, the other is far more mathematical becasue reads are harder, and pushing people off hands is also harder becasue the ease of clicking a button, compared to physically pushing your chips in with your low flush draw etc means less chasers in live play.

There is no doubt that online poker is manipulated (because they can)
There is plenty of doubt, in fact there is no reason to suspect they do this at all!?!?!?

for many reasons: a) to ensure quick results for tournament play (as they get no rake only entry fee)and: b) for ring games, the faster a hand is completed the more games are created in the hour and therefore more rake. Simple math and what I can see simple rationale.
a) If we accept that two reasons are "many" then lets carry on. b) They can ensure quick results by increasing the blinds more quickly, having smaller starting stacks, and shortening the levels, so what is the need to go to the extremely difficult to achieve, and complicated lengths of fixing bust out hands? c) If a hand is completed faster, then surely the pots are smaller, so more hands, but possibly more rake? Want more rake - then reduce the clock per action, make faster software (like UB) or up the rake (like Boss moving to Euros, or Ladbrokes raking 6%)


You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and
For Stars to run a 6 hour 12,000 player tourney (of which there are no actual examples anywhere in the world to date), I presume you are referring to a freeroll? You cannot compare a freeroll, with it's short stack, short rounds, and extreme loose play, with a 12,000 player live tourney with deep stack, long clock, and TAG play. Poker Stars weekly Million plays for 12 hours or more, and despite having a friendly structure is still far more quicker structuire than live play, and you get 3 times as many hands per hour, so really thats a 3 day tourney for 4000 players.

2. Software manipulation ensures fast action and quick results ( I have seen so many setups where three players are all holding pocket pairs - ensuring an all-in scenarios - this is rare in live play, Quads appearing in 4 hands within an hour - never seen that in all my 30 years of playing live, flushs to make you think these are as common as pairs and to top it off, allinners getting runner, runner and winning against someone who has a st8 off the flop so many times it makes a mockery of the statistics of live play)
Selective memory. I rememeber sitting down to play a small stakes NL game last year, and within the first hour I saw a flopped AAA board, with the case Ace on the turn. Amazingly, the following morning I sat down and again within the first hour I saw a flopped AAA, with the case Ace on the turn. Rigged? Well the first was at Caesers Palace, and the second at Venetian. Later in the second day I was at MGM (my fave Vegas card room) and within the hour there had indeed been four shown down quads hands, two to the same girl, and happily one for me. I also got paid on the Casers hand as I held a King and got called by a Queen.

Celebrity late night poker a couple of years ago, 1st heat, 1st hand, and Stephen Hendry knocks an opponent out with a Royal Flush. I don't remember anything else about that series, but I remember this hand.

Play long enough you see it all, but you'll only remember the exceptional hands.

Without both above points working together, tourneys of this size would hold up the site for days.
No they wouldn't, you clearly don't know how to set a tournament up to finish within a particular range of time. Why do you think casinos (live ones) have a certain clock, chip stack, and levels? It's not random, experience based upon how many players they historically get, and speed of play, coupled with when they need to finish, means they set up the structure accordingly. Online is the same.

I'm sorry but your argument is only based on your narrow view.
<cough>

However, any player of the live game would be very suspicious of the "spin" these online sites spew out, and be totally convinced of their charade once they have played online.
Many live players are, becasue when they go online they lose. Live players in general are poorer players, and are quick to assert the reason they lose is because of "fixing", sadly as more and more internet pros go live, they are finding their lack of ability is the route of their issues, not the poker sites.

One day it will be proven. By the way, isn't poker run by random number generators like casino slots??? Hmmmm do I see something similar here????
No, but then you don't understand that slots are also a house game it seems?
 
Shakes his head

My the force be with you all - because your senses are somewhere else.


I've had my say, good luck to you all.
 
malleeboy, I love the way you avoid the logical argument. I guess you avoid the logical argument because you don't have any facts or evidence to support your claims.

I'll try again though... If 90% of poker rooms are cheating why aren't they getting caught and outed by the independent professionals or the professional players that monitor and play at them?


The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America.
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Could someone please explain to me why there are so many aces and kings in the flops?! I wrote to 2 online poker companies and they couldnt explain why there were so many aces or kings in their flops!!
I watched 1000 flops and 687 times there was either a king or ace or both in the flops
I dealt 1000 flops with a deck of cards and 346 times there was an ace or king or both

It seems to me they fix the flops because everyone holds aces or kings!!!!!!!!!
 
I agree

Has anyone not noticed The "mysterious" player who appears when you have $2000 he has $4000 plays a few hands takes your $2000 with some ridiculous flops and then "disappears" MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted by malleeboy View Post
You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and

There's one slight flaw in your logic. You seem to forget that live tournaments don't have a 15-20 second time clock for you to act. This definitely accounts for quite a bit of the speed in which a big tournament plays out.
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

totally agree with everything you have said you have to be an idiot not to think they are fixed!! you can do anything with software EG with video pokers you can fix them never to pay a royal flush so goodness knows what these poker companies can do PS my girlfriend is a web designer and iternet marketing expert with a very high IQ she played online poker after years of playing "real" cards 2 weeks later she said never again would she paly online poker Quote "the software is fixed"
 
IDIOT

You are an idiot i worked for a company in ireland famous for its poker machines ETC which i cant name for obvious reasons we could fix the hands to what ever we wanted and you think the software on online poker cant be fixed LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
You are an idiot i worked for a company in ireland famous for its poker machines ETC which i cant name for obvious reasons we could fix the hands to what ever we wanted and you think the software on online poker cant be fixed LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

....actually, no comment. Come back with you have solid proof.

It's been said time and time again, but still rings true: Those that think every online poker room is rigged are simply trying to find an excuse for why they consistently lose. If those people worked on trying to improve their game instead of spending countless hours trying to prove that the sites are rigged, these posts wouldn't exist.
 
Could someone please explain to me why there are so many aces and kings in the flops?
Do you have any hard numbers to back up your statement? Or does it just "seem" to you like you see more Kings and Aces in the flops?

Those that think every online poker room is rigged are simply trying to find an excuse for why they consistently lose.
So very true. There are few that admit they are lousy players, and almost every one of the people that think all rooms are rigged have stated they 'know how to play' or "they play an optimum strategy" or some such garbage.

I for one know I am lousy player and I make mistakes... lots of them, thats why you don't see me playing on Poker After Dark. ;)
 
Do you have any hard numbers to back up your statement? Or does it just "seem" to you like you see more Kings and Aces in the flops?

So very true. There are few that admit they are lousy players, and almost every one of the people that think all rooms are rigged have stated they 'know how to play' or "they play an optimum strategy" or some such garbage.

I for one know I am lousy player and I make mistakes... lots of them, thats why you don't see me playing on Poker After Dark. ;)

FWIW, Full Tilt is running tournaments for a seat on Poker After Dark....cheap too ;)
 
You are an idiot i worked for a company in ireland famous for its poker machines ETC which i cant name for obvious reasons we could fix the hands to what ever we wanted and you think the software on online poker cant be fixed LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Mmmmmmm, You seem to think you are the only one that worked for these companies... How old are you, you sound very young making such a groundless statement. Because the company where you worked rigged their machines everyone does? There is no clear cut evidence that poker rooms are rigged. Nor does it make any sense for them to do so. Infact the opposite is rather true, they know out of all the gambling experts amongst us, they will be caught if they do. The want to be fair to build that reputation of bing fair so they can rely on their followers to bring more honey, they love the rakes and the more players the more the rakes.

I know there are arguments to the contrary by many most of whom are bad poker players, but the fact of the matter is plain and simple. Bad poker players rarely understand why they keep on loosing. The fact is that they simply do not understand how poker works. It is a skill game. Tight players often loose and they loose hard because they get rivered for large amounts of money, because they were convinced they had the better hand. Smart players actually convince them even further that they have the better hand. I mean it is like telling everyone what you have in your hand.

Become accountable for your own actions is my only suggestion. Take the responsibility and rather try to learn how to play poker first. Predictable play is such a great quality of a fish.
 
You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:
For a 30 year veteran you seem to very convinced of your facts. I agree that the temptation must be there for the poker rooms, but the reality is that the online play is much faster than land based. There is no comparison in speed. 100's of tables playing at the same time at lighting fast speeds, table changes at the speed of thought. The reality is that online play simply moves that much faster.

I have seen so many setups where three players are all holding pocket pairs - ensuring an all-in scenarios - this is rare in live play, Quads appearing in 4 hands within an hour - never seen that in all my 30 years of playing live, flushs to make you think these are as common as pairs and to top it off, allinners getting runner, runner and winning against someone who has a st8 off the flop so many times it makes a mockery of the statistics of live play

If you increased the rate of live play you will note that there is nothing sinister here. If you look at mathematical odds, it is very much possible that this would happen at the rate it does. I honestly cannot think of a major difference between live poker and online poker in terms of the cards. Reading players and understanding the psychological differences are about it. People do play different online,... allot different, but the hands are similar.
 
I ran some poker rooms in Denver for a couple years (before they were busted.. SOCIAL CLUBS, lol)
before I found this beautiful thing called online
poker and then online casinos and then affiliation :D
I know some of the greats personally and when I walk into
Bobby's room a few people know me ;) not because I play
good but because I am cute

You would be suprised with the amount of unbelievable
hands that come up frequently in live action. I can
not count the amount of unreal beats I have seen.
I would rarely have more than one table of live action
so it was not the Bellagio or even close. I have seen
it all and back to back and it does happen, and
sometimes frequenly.. I saw 2 ACTUAL bad beats..
quad over quads in less than an hour, and I know no one
was cheating because I hired the dealer and he was not
that smart!

I went on to find pokerstars.. I too thought
very bizarre things happened online but I was
winning so did not really care. I know a little
collusion goes on from time to time.. my friends
and I played so many sit&gos we would get at the
same tables sometimes and try to cheat a little on
messager (IT RARELY HELPED ONE BIT)

Now I am on the affiliate side, and although
I deal more with online casinos now, I feel
many if not most poker rooms and casinos realize
they they only make money with happy players...
if they do not they are just stupid and that is why Casino Meister is here.

Here is the problem:
Tilt. things go faster online, and we only remember the interesting hands or the bad beats..
We forget all the hands that go as we expect. If you win
in land poker rooms and not online, change up your
style.. I found I played the sit&gos great but live online action
was just not for me. If you don't trust it than quit playing
online because if you think you are going to loose, you
will never ever win.

I wish you the best luck and hope things start going your way soon!:thumbsup:
 
I thought about my post and I know no one believes anything they hear
so hopefully this pic gives me a tiny bit of credibilty..

I am 100% certain that 90% of poker rooms do not cheat:thumbsup:

Doyleandme.jpg
 
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