I am intimidated to ask casino questions about unclear bonus terms

WolframBeta

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I am intimidated to ask casino questions about unclear bonus terms, or just anything about bonuses in general.

Just about every casino, including the accredited ones, have something in their TOC that sounds something like "if you're an AP Bonus hunter, we have the right to confiscate your winnings and deposit at our desecration."

I'm AP. I don't chose to be a bonus hunter, I do that because that's the only option. If casinos make other AP methods viable, such as offering full pay video poker with 100%+ returns, then I have no problem switching my AP method. I don't "abuse" bonuses via any type of fraud, such as multiple-accounting. But then again the term "abuse" is not set in stone and interpretation rights ALWAYS goes to the casino due to TOC. I simply grind out blackjack, knowing that I can on average walk away with some of the bonus money if the rollover is low. I'm sure many casinos wouldn't hesitate to call this "abuse", "exploiting our good faith of bonus" or whatever...

That aside, I feel like asking a casino about bonus is a huge red flag. As far as I could tell, if I were in the casino's shoes, the only people that would ask me questions about bonus terms (Very specific questions!) are either bonus hunters or player advocates like casinomeister. I'm obviously no player advocate. So if I ask them, they will know I'm a bonus hunter and take my money.

Yet, casinomeister encourages a player to ask about bonus terms and sometimes get it in writing in the more dodgy cases (forgot where I read this, sorry). I surly do understand why he would suggest that.

But I'm still intimidated to ask. I feel like asking an online casino about their bonus terms in details (especially when they most likely purposely make their terms vague to deter bonus hunters) will get me flagged as bonus hunter and have my deposit confiscated. I feel like asking them is like staring at the pit boss in a live blackjack table. There's a saying that a card counter should never stare at the pit boss, because that's a huge red flag he's card counting, because seriously who else stares at the pit boss? who else asks about bonuses?
 

jshort

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There's really just one question one needs to ask in your case;

1) How many times do I have to wager my bonus money if I'm playing Blackjack?

Most of the time, you should be able to find out this information out yourself on the casino website, but if not, I don't think the above question is really all that revealing with regards to you being an AP.
 

chuchu59

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Wolframbeta,

You shocked me with the title of this thread. You are not being intimidated. You are merely too timid to ask but that's human nature I guess. If I am correct you are actually quoting them to be able to confiscate deposit and winnings at their discretion(not desecration) if you are an AP. Should I be wrong please accept my apologies. Seriously though, you need to ask before you deposit. No shame in that.
 

Diane

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Never be intimidated by a casino. They are there to serve you if you choose to play at their site.

Stay with the accredited list of casinos here.

You have a need and a right to understand all their T & C's BEFORE you deposit. If they make you feel uncomfortable or worse, dodge the questions, run! Also alert Max or Bryan if you have a problem with a CM accredited casino.

I grill them every time on what the rules are in terms of:

* What games are allowed if I take a bonus?
* Is there a maximum on bet size if I take a bonus
* What are the wagering req. ?
* Is wagering based on just bonus or bonus + deposit?
* Is there a max cashout if bonus is claimed?
* Is bonus given deducted from winnings at cashout or not?
* Tell me about your w/d policy, how much per week, what documentation is required, what methods are available for US players? Is it a US bank check or Canadian bank check?
* What is the timeline for w/d from date of request - what can I expect before funds hit my bank or my home?

As you indicated, ALWAYS keep a written copy of any chat or emails from each casino so you have the documentation for any problems that might arise. Chat staff cannot be counted on to always give you the right answer. However, if it is an accredited casino - they will generally back up what you were told by one of their staff, even if it is wrong. I keep a folder for each individual casino and put copies of all chats and emails in there for future reference if needed.

Good luck, take a deep breath and ask ALL the questions, and never feel intimidated or uncomfortable. These are merchants like any other business. Customers have many choices and should be making their play choices on factual info gathered before you line up at the cash register.

Diane
 

vinylweatherman

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If the terms are not clear, this is an intentional move on the part of the casino so that they can "pull the FU clause" on anyone they deem a "bonus abuser", regardless of whether the play broke the terms or not.

Ideally, Advantage players should get better so that they don't have to push the boundaries of what is allowed under the terms. Playing right on, or just under, the boundaries identifies one as an advantage player, whether or not you get noticed by asking obscure and detailed questions about the terms.
 

KasinoKing

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The others before me have given excellent advice, which I 100% agree with.

I would just like to add one more thing; as you are in the USA, you have very very few opportunities to gain any "advantage" from bonuses at reputable casinos, as generally USA facing casinos have higher and stricter WR terms on their promotions than casinos who don't accept Americans.
So you are likely to only find bonuses which might appeal to advantage players at the "very dodgy" non-recommended places - and that is a route you definitely do not want to go down, believe me.

KK
 

Diane

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The others before me have given excellent advice, which I 100% agree with.

I would just like to add one more thing; as you are in the USA, you have very very few opportunities to gain any "advantage" from bonuses at reputable casinos, as generally USA facing casinos have higher and stricter WR terms on their promotions than casinos who don't accept Americans.
So you are likely to only find bonuses which might appeal to advantage players at the "very dodgy" non-recommended places - and that is a route you definitely do not want to go down, believe me.

KK

True........one more example of how poor our options are in the US compared to the rest of the world.

And the reason to always stay with the CM ACCREDITED CASINOS

Diane
 

WolframBeta

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I didn't know US casinos are more stingy than non-US. Thought it was the other way around! In fact many times various countries in Europe are just straight up banned from claiming bonuses on casino sites.

That said, what is the best country to live in as far as bonus opportunities are concerned?
 

Nifty29

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I didn't know US casinos are more stingy than non-US. Thought it was the other way around! In fact many times various countries in Europe are just straight up banned from claiming bonuses on casino sites.

That said, what is the best country to live in as far as bonus opportunities are concerned?

An odd question.

Thinking of using a VPN or something? I hope not, but if you do then try Kazakhstan or Ukraine.

Afaik there is no "best" country in terms of bonuses.
 

WolframBeta

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If you use a vpn to play, would you get busted the moment they verify your identity?
 

Nifty29

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If you use a vpn to play, would you get busted the moment they verify your identity?

I don't know.

I'm not a liar or a cheat, so I've not been through that process.

Someone else might be able to help.

FWIW such behaviour is considered fraudulent and totally unacceptable here at CM. I know some sites that don't care, but we aren't one of them.
 

maxd

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If you use a vpn to play, would you get busted the moment they verify your identity?

If you use a VPN you'll likely get busted, period, never mind the rest of it. That said they'll likely let you lose as much as you like until they do get around to doing anything about it.

The point is that they only reason you'd use a VPN at a casino is to break the casino's rules. Once you start down that path you've already painted a target on your back. You'd best be fairly clever if you hope to get away with it. Needless to say none of this is advisable, but I think you already knew that. ;)
 

xalksx

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Thats one thing im never afraid to ask ..And thats about a bonus and i shall say why ..Before i found all these sites id end up locked in bonuses without even knowing a pop up would appear id just click it and go to the games/slots i wanted then one day i stuck something like £300 into my casino wallet instead of sports wallet and tried to transfer back to sports ..So i asked them wtf was going on they had explained i was know in a wagering bonus and had to wager it x30 or something i was livid to say the least..So i did abuse it i went on roulette spun it up to £900 then went onto the higher %% games so on finaly i managed to turn the £300 into £800 and transferred it so now every time i put money in any casino i ask every detail about there bonus and ushely tell them to keep there bonus imo theres far to much t&c that go with bonuses now (the site has now added "bonus abuse") so i simply dont take any of there bonuses ..Threw all these new t&c has made me close 2/3 of my casino/sports sites as there going to far with it all to much rules :)
 

Casinomeister

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I would suggest to be upfront with a casino - let's say 3dice - and state that you are an advantage player, you want to play x bonus, and you want to play x games a specific way and see how they respond. We have never had a bonus complaint about 3Dice, and I'm sure they have had their share of AP's. Enzo, their casino manager, has even mentioned there is no such thing as bonus abuse, only bad casino math.

I would not use a VPN under any circumstance. You'll only raise red flags and give yourself grief.
 

K2C

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But I'm still intimidated to ask. I feel like asking an online casino about their bonus terms in details (especially when they most likely purposely make their terms vague to deter bonus hunters) will get me flagged as bonus hunter and have my deposit confiscated. I feel like asking them is like staring at the pit boss in a live blackjack table. There's a saying that a card counter should never stare at the pit boss, because that's a huge red flag he's card counting, because seriously who else stares at the pit boss? who else asks about bonuses?

I have not heard of a single case where a player was banned for simply asking to clarify the terms. In most cases, chat reps' capacity is quite limited, some are not even in position to tell you when your documents will be approved or when your cheque will be actually sent, let alone making a decision to exclude you. So your analogy of "asking a pit boss" is not quite accurate, it is more like asking a friendly concierge when you apply for a player's card in Vegas.

Also, based on what I have read, players who do not consider themselves APs suffer from unclear terms just as often as people like you, so I can imagine them asking such questions in chats frequently, after such a negative experience.

Thinking from a different perspective, if casinos paranoid enough to ban players based on their chat behavior do exist, you should avoid those anyway and do not fool yourself into thinking that you can get away by keeping a low profile in chat. Most likely, they will use their paranoia further and go out of their ways to decline your winnings.

If you find ALL terms of a given casino vague and unclear, you should probably simply refrain from playing there, while clarifying a paragraph or two or asking where your favorite game fits into the WR table should be perfectly OK.
 

maxd

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I have not heard of a single case where a player was banned for simply asking to clarify the terms. ....

I'm doing a bit of guessing here but I suspect our wayward OP is really trying to say something like "I don't want to risk asking anything in case they catch wind of what they don't want to hear", namely him spoofing his way in via VPN for whatever bent reasons he might have for doing so.

If you listen in on the chatter amongst fraudsters you'll often here this sort of thing, their version of not wanting to make a ripple in The Force or suchlike. Mostly voodoo paranoia IMHO but given that they're mostly up to no good I suppose they have their reasons for being especially wary.
 

WolframBeta

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No, I'm not interested in VPN at all. Someone suggested it and I asked if people actually get away with it out of curiosity. And the obvious answer was no.

I think the best response here was that if a casino bans you for asking about bonus, leave it because even if you get away with asking about it, they'll find other reasons to take your money.
 

BETAT

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I'd just like to point out, and I'm certain there's a great many casinos who share the philosophy, that if you're uncertain about any terms or conditions about a bonus - ask! That's why there's email and live chat support and forum reps in place... to address your concerns and questions. To be quite frank, that's why we pay people like myself.
 

maxd

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No, I'm not interested in VPN at all. ....

Fair enough, but when you pointedly ask things like "what is the best country to live in?" it's hard to imagine how that info would be of any use to you unless you had some location spoofing notions in mind. There are a lot of fraudsters out there and some of the things you've been asking are pretty suspect. Just saying.
 

WolframBeta

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No it's because I live in the US and the bonus I'm seeing overall is crap and I'm wondering if it's better elsewhere.

Note: I originally assumed US players have better bonuses because I've never seen casinos deny them bonus, they either completely ban US players or give the bonus. Whereas other countries, like france, does not get banned but are prohibited from certain bonuses.

I guess that means all US facing casinos have their entire casino bonus more stingy.
 

Finn

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Note: I originally assumed US players have better bonuses because I've never seen casinos deny them bonus, they either completely ban US players or give the bonus. Whereas other countries, like france, does not get banned but are prohibited from certain bonuses.

Actually online gambling is heavily regulated by the government of France, any providers who want to provide online gambling services in France have to go them for licenses etc, and pretty much all those internationally oriented casino sites that ban USA also ban France.
 

K2C

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Note: I originally assumed US players have better bonuses because I've never seen casinos deny them bonus, they either completely ban US players or give the bonus.

May I ask what made you change your opinion? What you said agrees with my observations and is also logical: US-facing casinos take certain risks and give up certain opportunities (can't use microgaming or playtech games, can't get eCogra certificate, casinomeister won't accredit the new US-friendly brands), so it would be quite strange for them to discourage US players by offering them inferior bonuses or no bonuses whatsoever. I am personally aware only of a couple casinos doing so, and I also know an opposite example: Mainstreet Vegas group offers better bonus conditions to US players compared to other countries.
 

WolframBeta

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May I ask what made you change your opinion? What you said agrees with my observations and is also logical: US-facing casinos take certain risks and give up certain opportunities (can't use microgaming or playtech games, can't get eCogra certificate, casinomeister won't accredit the new US-friendly brands), so it would be quite strange for them to discourage US players by offering them inferior bonuses or no bonuses whatsoever. I am personally aware only of a couple casinos doing so, and I also know an opposite example: Mainstreet Vegas group offers better bonus conditions to US players compared to other countries.

Well, mainstreet vegas was pretty influential to make me originally think US players have better bonuses. But after a few posts on the forums other people have told me US players have worse bonus than people elsewhere. I know I'm basing this off hearsay since unfortunately I don't have data. I assume some people who claim either way must have more data than I do? Hope they're willing to share the data.

And then when I asked about it i got targeted as a VPN fraud suspect instead of being provided with quality answers >.< just my luck
 

KasinoKing

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I know I'm basing this off hearsay since unfortunately I don't have data. I assume some people who claim either way must have more data than I do? Hope they're willing to share the data.
With just a few minor exceptions, USA players generally get worse welcome bonuses than other countries. Thousands of hours over the last 8 years means I DO have the data - and it's on my websites!
One page in particular on SlotBeaters will show you what I mean, as USA and non-USA welcome bonuses can be compared in one big list. I don't want to post the link here, so I will PM it to you.

KK
 
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