Hyper Casino refusing to pay out £1150

JayBe

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Jun 18, 2019
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Hello Casinomeister people!

My situation is a bit weird, but would appreciate any advice that is given. Basically I play at a casino in binges - will play at one and after a while will just close an account and move onto another. I'll close the account at the one then move onto another - I played at Fun casino and (as far as I can remember) didn't win anything so just moved on. Stupidly I self-excluded to close the account quickly, but it does mean that I will never hear from that casino again (I've done it a few times over the years).

Anyway, a couple days later, I played at Hyper Casino and won (net) £1150. I was pretty chuffed and so decided to cash out. I gave all the relevant verification info and got told that it looked good then later a short email saying:

Dear ***,

I hope this email finds you well.

As you have self excluded from a sister casino we have now self excluded you from Hypercasino and sent back your deposits.

Kind regards,

As it turned out, they noted (after I had deposited, played and cashed out) that I had self-excluded from Fun Casino and so then returned the deposit (£150) and nicked me winnings (£1150) on the basis that I had self-excluded previously from a sister casino.

This has wound me up proper - aside from the fact that they were quite happy for me to play and lose, I had absolutely no idea that this casino was even in a group - the only indication they give is that it says:

Hyper Casino is owned and operated by L&L Europe..

at the bottom in tiny text - no mention of other casinos, no mention of being in a group - even if I had noticed that text, I would just assume it was owned by another company

This seems duplicitous and just finding reasons not to pay out a modest win. I pointed out that it was completely unfair to expect a player to research a casino, but they have been belligerent and made me feel like I should be happy that they didn't nick my deposit as well.

In fairness, I did look through their T&Cs to find the relevant part (it took a while):

During your period of self-exclusion, you promise not to circumvent, or to attempt to circumvent, the self-exclusion agreement by attempting to stake using hypercasino.com or our Services, either yourself or using a third party. Any Accounts found to be in breach of a self-exclusion agreement will be closed as soon as they are discovered. Please note that if you access your Account and/or open a new Account during the self-exclusion period by fraudulent means or by deliberately entering incorrect information and our automated checks do not prevent this happening, then we shall have no responsibility or liability to a player or any third party for any gambling activity that takes place (including to return any deposits, winnings or other funds in respect of such activity). Any new Accounts during a self-exclusion agreement will be closed as soon as they are detected by us.

I'm not even sure if this covers them.

When I pointed out that they were expecting me to research their casino from a tiny bit of text at the bottom of their page, they were dismissive stating that they had no responsibility to declare that they were part of a group at all - despite the fact that they had nicked my winnings because of exactly that.

Note that I had not self-excluded from Hyper Casino themselves and Hyper Casino state that they were unable to warn me before I deposited that I was self-excluded from their whole group (something which I was dubious about)...after they sent the initial email they then self-excluded my hypercasino account so I can't even check.

Sorry for the essay - if anyone can advise in terms of what I can do. I am considering getting legal advice as I'm so very out of my depth.
 

dionysus

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well, unfortunately, you did exclude at a sister casino, and the casino did refund your deposit, so you arent out anything, but you did learn something, because there's one thing you posted a fair few might disagree with >
'I pointed out that it was completely unfair to expect a player to research a casino'

it's always good to research a casino and it never hurts to chat with support to ask if they have any sister casinos, especially if youre someone who uses self-exclude.

As to legal action...for? You arent out anything

sucks you arent a little richer
On the plus side, you arent any poorer :)
 

hhhelllo

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I am sure if you self exclude somewhere and they have sister sites, popcorn time.

Sorry man, but when you self exlude, you give them a valid reason to wait until you win... and make some more popcorn.

I think they started that because of people who makes irregular play. Jan told me that.

If you didn't screw them with charge back and their sister site maybe Jan will help you.
 

chuchu59

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As Dino said you self excluded from a sister site which is in thier T@Cs
Why people self excluded is beyond me just close the accounts or just leave them dormant this is quite common dust your self off and move on.
Exactly although ome people may not know the difference between self-exclusion and closing an account. The former usually means there are gambling problems with the player whereas the latter could be almost anything eg. dissatisfaction with services etc.
 

xexe

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As to legal action...for? You arent out anything
Is this really how it works in the UK? You can accept players who are self-excluded, take their deposits until they finally win, and then go "actually, you're self excluded on some other site, and now that you've won, we've coincidentally decided to finally enforce the self-exclusion and keep your winnings".

edit: Just saw the message further down, hinting at him providing inaccurate information. That explains it I suppose.
 
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dionysus

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Is this really how it works in the UK? You can accept players who are self-excluded, take their deposits until they finally win, and then go "actually, you're self excluded on some other site, and now that you've won, we've coincidentally decided to finally enforce the self-exclusion and keep your winnings".
well, technically they arent the player's winnings unless the player met the terms and conditions, which in this case, he did not
The casino returned the player's deposit
the player is minus 0 in funds
 

dunover

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Well, Hyper have pretty much acted by the book here so there's nothing really the OP has to beef about. I know the fact that license holders aren't required to specify other sites sharing the license is partly to blame for these matters sometimes. As for problem gambling, not necessarily, it can be the naïve player that loses and excludes, or wins and excludes to tie matters off at each and every casino they visit. I used to do this years ago before I became aware of the consequences which can come back and bite you later as in this case and I certainly wasn't a 'problem gambler'.
If the OP indicates they are, of course the thread can be moved.
 

Nate

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....


As it turned out, they noted (after I had deposited, played and cashed out) that I had self-excluded from Fun Casino and so then returned the deposit (£150) and nicked me winnings (£1150) on the basis that I had self-excluded previously from a sister casino.

That's just the thing - It works both ways. IF you lost, you could have claimed that you were self excluded and requested your deposits back.

The bottom line is you were self excluded at a sister site - They acted accordingly.

I've been a member here for YEARS and the L&L Group have always conducted business ethically and within the rules - They are not some sort of clip joint looking to score 1k off an arbitrary player.

Nate
 

L&L-Jan

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
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Location
Malta
Hi Guys,

I'm not 100% sure where to start and what to say. But in general, and as per our terms and conditions: when you register an account you need to provide your details accordingly.

I have no issues to explain here in detail what happened, but I guess that it is up to the OP @JayBe to give me approval to disclose all events so that the CM community has an idea of the whole story.

Imo we have handled accordingly and by the books and is no damage done, as deposited funds are returned.

Kr. Jan
 
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Jono777

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Seems more like a plan (and not a very good one) which has back fired, epic fail OP lol!

I've been banging on since I joined here to never close an account, you can move on easily without doing so. I advised well before all the SE extravaganza that it would lead to problems down the road.

Been playing since 2003 and although most of the casinos have probably closed their doors nowadays, never once closed an account.

As many have said, hopefully a lesson learned and another point before I go, the once "SE loophole" has long since closed ;)
 

brianmon

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Why are some casino groups SO reluctant to list their sister sites in the T&C?
Especially the supposedly more reputable ones.
Even the 'not so reputable' Aspire Global, list all their sites.

It's not that difficult to do
 

dunover

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Why are some casino groups SO reluctant to list their sister sites in the T&C?
Especially the supposedly more reputable ones.
Even the 'not so reputable' Aspire Global, list all their sites.

It's not that difficult to do


Because they are under no obligation to do so. If you have numerous separately-owned properties under one umbrella license, any property will naturally be reluctant to mention alternative destinations for your funds, even if it is hidden away in the terms.
 

Harry_BKK

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Because they are under no obligation to do so. If you have numerous separately-owned properties under one umbrella license, any property will naturally be reluctant to mention alternative destinations for your funds, even if it is hidden away in the terms.

Plus, a simple click on the UKGC logo at the bottom of the page is taking you straight to the licence page where all properties are listed. Is even much easier than finding a link in the T&C's.

Looking at thhe OP's post, he/she looks like an experienced player and I can't fathom that anyone from the UK with some experience has not heard of the Self-Exclusion troubles. Hence, if he/she has being doing it all the time, then he/she must have known as otherwise he/she would have run into this problem much earlier since you have quite a few large groups - Caddell, Aspire, White Hat, EveryMatrix etc.

My gut tells me that he/she signed up with slightly altered details to circumvent the SE he/she executed at Fun Casino.
 

brianmon

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Because they are under no obligation to do so. If you have numerous separately-owned properties under one umbrella license, any property will naturally be reluctant to mention alternative destinations for your funds, even if it is hidden away in the terms.
I'd have thought, the amount of problems it would save, would far outweigh the slight possibility of someone depositing at a sister casino, just because it was mentioned in the T&C

Plus, a simple click on the UKGC logo at the bottom of the page is taking you straight to the licence page where all properties are listed. Is even much easier than finding a link in the T&C's.
Maybe not so pertinent in this case then.
But how many average/casual players would know this?
 

Harry_BKK

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I'd have thought, the amount of problems it would save, would far outweigh the slight possibility of someone depositing at a sister casino, just because it was mentioned in the T&C


Maybe not so pertinent in this case then.
But how many average/casual players would know this?

average/casual players --> will not Self-Exclude repeatedly and that at every casino where they open an account. (TBH, I don't even believe that part of the story)
 

brianmon

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average/casual players --> will not Self-Exclude repeatedly and that at every casino where they open an account. (TBH, I don't even believe that part of the story)
Well, Dunover has just admitted that he used to do it, before he knew any better.
I'd say it happens more than you think.

I closed my account at Guts, many many years ago. They self-excluded me, rather than close the account, it was probably easier for them to do.
Ben sorted that at one stage. But it still haunts me. I can play at some MTS sites, but not at others.

So even asking for an account closure can result in a self-exclusion. If the CS takes the easy route.
 

brianmon

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average/casual players --> will not Self-Exclude repeatedly and that at every casino where they open an account. (TBH, I don't even believe that part of the story)
Well, Dunover has just admitted that he used to do it, before he knew any better.
I'd say it happens more than you think.

I closed my account at Guts, many many years ago. They self-excluded me, rather than close the account, it was probably easier for them to do.
Ben sorted that at one stage. But it still haunts me. I can play at some MTS sites, but not at others.

So even asking for an account closure can result in a self-exclusion. If the CS takes the easy route.
 

Jono777

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Why are some casino groups SO reluctant to list their sister sites in the T&C?
Especially the supposedly more reputable ones.
Even the 'not so reputable' Aspire Global, list all their sites.

It's not that difficult to do

Wouldn't make much difference anyway, less than 10% would actually READ them.
 
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