Your Input Please How to make the gambling industry more respectable

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

I've been in the California desert for the past coiple of weeks and I'm on the road to Vegas. Tomorrow I'm scheduled to speak on a panel discussion about how to make this industry more respectable. What do you think both from a UK perspective and a US perspective. Any serious input from you guys and gals will be most appreciated, because I'd like to hear this from you. Thanks!!

 

[goatwack]

Make slots less childish-looking for starters

 

[Lobo]

Make slots less childish-looking for starters

Make them look like a tax return

 

[slot_zombie]

Do away with operator adjustable RTPs.

 

[dionysus]

Make slots less childish-looking for starters

There will be flack, but honestly, what's the drop-point?
A lot of slots harken back to 'our' days and nostalgia
what's chilidish? Cartoony? Camp? PG?
There's also a, well, female appeal yes, there's a boxing that in with stererotypes, but a different demographic as plays 'fluff'....can't be all war and grr and battle-mode

Maybe..specific slots from kids blatant tropes or shows...but we cant say trucks and axes and gore but no kittens and princeeses and jovial, without excluding players

 

[snorky510238]

All accounts to be verified along with any other documentation before a player is allowed to deposit. This is surely amicable for both parties but especially for casinos that are constantly bombarded with “I was allowed to deposit whilst self excluded” and have to face repercussions.

Also time limits on paying out. It’s ridiculous that people are waiting weeks sometimes to be paid out.

 

[dionysus]

i'd say max responsible bets
if youre playing $25/per maybe you should be lookin into other hobbies, otherwise it's a(n) money-making venture and not for entertainment purposes

chuck auto sspin
if youre off making dinner hoping to hit or waiting for a bonus round, again, it isnt for entrtainment purposes, unless your cat is watching and enamoured....but then, go get him an aquarium screen saver

don't stop WDs and ask for ID because you won..if yourre stressed (casino) about funds and responsible gaming, process, send funds, then, if worried, prevent second or next deposit or before the first...anything after the fact (dep and win) is pure BS

have a dedicated 24 hr live chat; if you can take money, you can take questions

 

[goatwack]

There will be flack, but honestly, what's the drop-point?
A lot of slots harken back to 'our' days and nostalgia
what's chilidish? Cartoony? Camp? PG?
There's also a, well, female appeal yes, there's a boxing that in with stererotypes, but a different demographic as plays 'fluff'....can't be all war and grr and battle-mode

Maybe..specific slots from kids blatant tropes or shows...but we cant say trucks and axes and gore but no kittens and princeeses and jovial, without excluding players

Not so much for the adults, but companies' insistence on pre-teen slot designs to obviously entice a younger demographic. Fines or not, companies are skirting around this as if their lives depended on it, and clearly don't make these themes to appeal to our sense of nostalgia, barring a few obvious licensed titles

 

[ternur]

Make gambling industry more respectable?

I'd start with transparency and corporate responsibility. Taking a serious stand and action towards problem gambling. Not because fear of fines or regulatory demands, but because it's the right thing to do.

 

[mack341]

I think of this question in two ways, how the industry appears to players/customers and how it appears to the non-gambling general public.

Influencing the latter's view would probably require a lot of 'change' from the casinos, affiliates, regulators, etc... you'd need industry experts [like yourself] to brainstorm on that one, and what would be doable.

From a customer's view I could offer the following ideas, not exactly revolutionary mind you just things that I feel give out a 'shyster' impression.

1. the casino sites, front page and promotions 'shout' too loudly if that makes sense, I realise firms see this as part of gaining a competitive edge, but if it was toned down a shade they'd look more respectable with less manic urging to trigger customers/players. Would need agreement across the board otherwise site's toning down things would feel at a disadvantage to other sites not bothering.

2. pruning the terms and conditions, making them easier to understand and clearer.

3. reform the complaints process, I think it's messy. There should be a far quicker turn around for one, it was mentioned on a thread the other day, time limits of 3-6 months to resolve complaints. The customer service teams and live chat need to engage with what the customer is actually saying and not deliberately confuse issues and falling back on a 'computer says no' approach, it makes the customer feel like he is dealing with an untrustworthy business.

It was said years ago that 'bets' were unenforceable, I think that has changed but you still read high profile case/instances of firms welching large payouts and hiding behind 'there was a technical malfunction' or some such excuse, which reinforces the popular view that casino management/owners are still shysters underneath, and will look for opportunities not to pay. This may be unfair but I believe that image lingers, and is held fairly widespread.

4. A regulator like curacao even existing, is a blot on the landscape. With experienced people warning you about signing up to casinos operating from there. I realise there are different types of curacao licences but that still doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. That's not a uk issue I suppose, but dodgy casinos bring the whole industry down, and a regulator that tolerates or turns a blind eye isn't helping.

 

[jodib71]

While fake Casinos are still operating on the Internet the whole gambling industry is affected and made to look shady. Sites like 24Pokies that are advertising, taking people's money etc but are fakes. It only takes a Google Search of their address to realise it doesn't even exist. They are clearly using pirated software but nothing is done. Casinos like this one make the whole industry look corrupt.

 

[Balthazar]

how to make this industry more respectable.

Glad you asked!

The games I don't like I don't play them. The features I don't like I don't use them. This is market-driven and should stay this way.

However, since we're talking about respectability I have this one big pet peeve and it's been the same since the very beginning of online gaming:

If the casino accepts my deposit it must accept my withdrawal, period.

No such thing as accepting all your money but when it's time to withdraw then the casino needs all kinds of verifications. That is absolute bullshit and it's a damn shame that it became normal over time and no one is questioning it from a moral and "respectability" point of view.

 

[Kroffe]

Agree with what others have said.
All verification checks that are needed for them to accept a withdrawal should be performed before they are allowed to take a deposit from you.
That way they have an incentive to actually do them in a timely manner.

Would be cool if casino-sites offered better information on the kind of volatility slots have.
Could be a bit of info like "Rtp%, avg amount of spins for bonus, avg bonus pays, etc"
Info about what rtp is and how it works should be made more accessible, because i doubt that even 50% bother with understanding it as it is know.
And choosing the "right" slots can make a big difference for your playtime&enjoyment.

 

[nikantw]

Good question.

1. Auto verification on sign up.

2. Always pay within minutes.

3. Educated and well informed players

4. Educated and well informed authorities. A global regulatory body would be the optimum but I can't see how.
At least there should be a minimum degree of cooperation here. If a country doesn't completely ban gambling they should respect and open their market to casinos that have a respected license somewhere else in the world.

It definitely doesn't help when every country left and right is naming "illegal" the best casinos out there for whatever reasons they can think of (but mostly is about the money, huge taxes and licensing costs)

Gambling is not a country's cash cow. All those taxes and fees hurt the players! They really do!
What is the problem with a simple income tax?

Over the top invasive SOW and SOF requests. The authorities treating every single player as a dangerous criminal. So dangerous that they can trust literally anybody else to handle all kinds of sensitive private information about said "criminal", their family, friends and patners!
If that doesn't scream gambling = criminal activity to the society......

Bans left and right, ban this, ban that, ban everything ...... to "protect the players". Do you think you are the only ones in the world that care about the players? Are you the only ones that know something the others don't? Come together, make some ground rules, educate the players to be able to decide for themselves for the rest.

 

[Nordog]

If you need to verify a customer, the correct path is to do it on deposit.
Never understood how casinos gladly accept deposits, but as soon as you withdraw they need you to verify to protect you. Suddenly its a question if you can afford to gamble, as soon as you actually won something?

Another thing is to hire customer service that actually know what their job is about, and have the ability to do simple tasks without approval from higher people. Renting external customer care is a big no-no in my eyes.

Instead of offering insulting bonuses often ( like deposit 50€ get 10 freespins worth 0.1€), they should use the budget to offer something that has a reasonable value.

Last, but not least: casinos that want to appear open should look at Jan and Connor as examples on how to approach the forum(s) in a respectable way. Yes its a lot of work, but respect dont come without it.

/sorry for long post.

 

[colinsunderland]

At the moment, what others have said. Fast withdrawals and no KYC/SoW bullshit on withdrawals. There is NO reason Sow/KYC needs to be done on withdrawal, or at least not in 99.9% of cases. I can think of one or two rare scenarios when it might be appropriate, but no reason for it in all other cases.
All this does is make casinos look dodgy, thats fact.

Look at Casumo's seemingly current policy as an example.

Players can deposit as much as they like after a SoW request (which are sent on withdrawal at least sometimes), but until SoW is completed then you cannot withdraw. So, to send an AML SoW they have to believe you are a high risk customer, therefore believe there is a high risk that you are using stolen funds, money laundering etc, Surely to be accepting deposits in that case, they are saying 'hey we think you are using dodgy money, we will take it as much as you like, but we won't let you have your winnings'. For RG issues its 'hey, we think you might have a gambling problem, but we will still take your money, no problem, but won't give you your winnings'. Then telling customers they want statements from third parties, and copies of their ID (which is quite possibly a breach of the GDPR and also quite possibly impossible to provide) or they won't payout, or asking for documents that simply don't exist (see Dunnover's recent experience with them) , just makes it look like the whole process is set up to not have to pay you.

I've used Casumo as an example as it's recent, but it applies to many other casinos doing similar things.

Considering its mainly UK customers that are being hit with this, casinos should spend a bit of money on a UK solicitor to actually get proper advice on how to implement AML laws (even though they have been around for decades and they should have been following them anyway) without all this bullshit that ultimately does nothing but damage the reputation of casinos. Just to back that up, just look at the complaints on here, AG etc, the complaints about this type of thing regarding non UK based casinos MASSIVELY outnumber complaints about the big UK based bookies, despite the UK bookies having MASSIVELY greater numbers of players (from the UK). But then the UK based ones will be using UK based legal advisers, who understand UK Law, and more importantly, how to implement it.

Cross license self exclusion too, if casinos can detect a player who is self excluded on another brand on withdrawal, then they can do it on registration and/or deposit too. Thats fact. But again, they confiscate withdrawals, take the money for as long as you don't want to withdraw, as soon as you withdraw, bang, oh you're self excluded, we aren't going to pay you, or give you your deposits back.

I genuinely think those two things are the two things at the moment that damage the industry more than anything else. I think the top thing customers want from casinos, is to know, if they win, they will get paid. Put that in doubt, and people will think twice before playing.

Edit: One other quick thing, UK facing operations should have a UK address for service of court documents displayed on the website. I know I read a few years ago, a condition of a license is to have a UK address for this, but I'm not sure thats true, as I don't think any actually do it. When you have to take legal action cross border it makes things so much more expensive, complicated, and means casinos can go unchallenged when they do do things like mentioned here.

 

[trancemonkey]

Do away with operator adjustable RTPs.

Never gonna happen

 

[trancemonkey]

Gambling is not a country's cash cow. All those taxes and fees hurt the players! They really do!
What is the problem with a simple income tax?

For some countries, it kind of is...

 

[Kroffe]

Never gonna happen

What is the benefit for providers providing different rtp versions of their slots?
Me knowing that for example playngo offer different versions just makes me less likely to play them.
And they get paid a % of what is wagered on their slots right? (this may be way wrong)

Its not like casinos are gonna ditch red tiger, playngo, pragmatic, etc if they stopped offering the lower rtp versions right?
Surely that would mean an overall loss since customers would choose other sites to play at.

 

[trancemonkey]

What is the benefit for providers providing different rtp versions of their slots?
Me knowing that for example playngo offer different versions just makes me less likely to play them.
And they get paid a % of what is wagered on their slots right? (this may be way wrong)

Its not like casinos are gonna ditch red tiger, playngo, pragmatic, etc if they stopped offering the lower rtp versions right?
Surely that would mean an overall loss since customers would choose other sites to play at.

Depends on the running costs of the casino, for example, what regulatory framework the site is running under - some countries have much higher taxes than others, and so you may have to run at a lower RTP in order to have a business at all.

 

[colinsunderland]

Depends on the running costs of the casino, for example, what regulatory framework the site is running under - some countries have much higher taxes than others, and so you may have to run at a lower RTP in order to have a business at all.

So why do casinos like that offer games from providers who don't have the lower settings?

 

[Kroffe]

Depends on the running costs of the casino, for example, what regulatory framework the site is running under - some countries have much higher taxes than others, and so you may have to run at a lower RTP in order to have a business at all.

Makes sense.
Still wish there were some way they could get rid of it.
Most people probably dont even know they are playing with a lower rtp, wich to me makes it extra "shady"
Shady is not really the right word since everyone can easily look up the rtp, but a big portion of casino-players probably dont know how, or dont care.

 

[trancemonkey]

Makes sense.
Still wish there were some way they could get rid of it.
Most people probably dont even know they are playing with a lower rtp, wich to me makes it extra "shady"
Shady is not really the right word since everyone can easily look up the rtp, but a big portion of casino-players probably dont know how, or dont care.

If you're that bothered by RTP, dont ever come to Vegas

 

[trancemonkey]

So why do casinos like that offer games from providers who don't have the lower settings?

Simple really...

If you need you average RTP to be 96.5%, and some providers with very good games refuse to give you a lower RTP, you run others at a lower RTP to compensate.

 

[Nordog]

I dont really think that the rtp differences some casinos have is important at all. There are other issues thats more urgent.