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How to lose a customer in 1 minute or less

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by tomo4789, May 23, 2003.

  1. tomo4789

    tomo4789 Dormant account

    A couple of days ago I signed up for a account at a playtech casino that had emailed me a bonus offer. I thought why not so I signed up. Everything went great. The bonus was payed as indicated. The server was fast and didnt hang up. Also I won, doubling my deposit and bonus. Life was good. As is my habit in such cases after playing much more than the required action, over a period of days, I tookout half the money with the plan of trying to make something happen with the other half. However, about a minute later I got an email from the casino saying that they got my cashin request. Im thinking what customer service. Then I read the email. They tell me they will process my request in 7 buisness days. Not within 7 days but after 7 buisness days. Needless to say I went back to the casino and cashined the other half of my money. Im willing to wait a reasonable time for my money but waiting a minimum of 9 days for them to process your cashin is crazy. By being greedy they lost a customer. The funny thing is I had already decided that had I lost the rest of the money in the account I was going to make another deposit because they had a 20% deposit bonus for the weekend. Guess where that 500 dollars is not going. I wont be treated like crap for a bonus.

    Tom
     
  2. doktersuz

    doktersuz Dormant account

    Unfortunately, the long delays before paying withdrawals are grower longer on a regular basis for a number of Playtech casinos, and a Playtech casino I've played at very regularly for over a year lost my business last week after playing numerous games to delay payment (the same games they played to delay my previous withdrawal for weeks).
    I don't know if you are a person who reads the fine print at casinos, but the fine print states the withdrawal delays they stated to you. However, as an insult to our intelligence, they also claim that the delays are for OUR benefit, to give us plenty of time to decide we do NOT really want the withdrawal and reverse it (and generally lose it to the House odds, knowing that many people who deposit don't have an unending source of funds and may have their wagering budget tied up in their delays and reverse the withdrawal simply so they can continue to play). Last week's additional problems came when I got bored and reversed my withdrawal, and then got a natural royal flush, changing a simple $50 withdrawal to one a LOT bigger - needless to say, they didn't want to pay and used every trick in the book to delay long past their stated waiting period. And then the support staff managed to contradict each other on issues that aren't minor issues, but serious falsehoods and false statements about who was who and what was going on - they even attempted to blame my e-mail account for their problems, rofl!

    I haven't seen a single comment on any of the boards regarding the completely inappropriate handling of withdrawals (and intentional and unnecessary delays meant to keep players from getting their money), so I'm glad to see that you've posted on the issue. Although Playtech posts a 5 business day rule, the 7-day rule is an unstated rule they are using, and that is only the period of delay, not when they will pay you, which occurs only after an additional delay, as they'll be happy to inform you AFTER you've politely waited out the 5 or 7 business days and then asked why you still haven't been paid.
    Many people say that as long as the rules are posted, we have no right to complain. But in my opinion, this industry is in a race to the bottom of the barrel because of statements like that, and except for a few casinos that prove it is possible (without any addition fraud problems compared to delaying for weeks) to pay withdrawals in a few hrs or a day, all casinos have dramatically increased the time before they even consider paying a withdrawal. Most, including the Microgaming Casinos of the Fortune Lounge group and many others, have also very quietly added a clause that limits your maximum allowed withdrawal to 10x your deposit if you accept even a 10% deposit bonus. Apparently the behaviors of the Virtual Casino Group are quite attractive to the vast majority of casinos, and players' blind acceptance of whatever ridiculous limits and delays are added have given most casinos (including those listed as "reputable") the nerve to regularly and quietly keep adding time to the payment delays, increase the wagering requirements for even the tiniest deposits, and limit the withdrawals a player can make if they accept even the tiniest bonus offer sent to them by mail.

    I'd like to see players refuse to play at the Playtech casinos that are delaying payments for long periods and insulting our intelligence by claiming they do so as a benefit to us (if I request my money, then I want it now, and will decide if I want to deposit part of it at the same casino - or not - after I've been paid; I've attempted to say I'd prefer to forego the "favor" the Playtech casinos are doing for me by refusing to process my withdrawals for over a week and that I'd be happy to sign a form saying I accept responsibility for accepting my withdrawal immediately and won't blame the casino for paying me instead of giving me the opportunity to realize I want to reverse it in a week, but they decided that I'm simply not capable of making such a self-sacrificing decision and said they'll continue to hold the funds for 7 days plus 2-4 for payment - how generous and caring of them, roflmao).
    Players are responsible for the worsening situation with casinos, because they accept the rules that are no longer justifiable in any way, but don't complain and continue to play.
    I'd like to see players spend their money only at casinos like INetBet and other casinos that have established a clear pattern of paying within a few hours or a day, even though their wagering rules are unacceptable and its crazy to accept deposit bonuses, and preferably spend their deposits on the casinos with the least ridiculous rules and make it clearly known that the current trend will result in none of us playing at the casinos with long delays and obvious attempts to make decent withdrawals impossible until they change those rules. I have little faith that players will make that choice to improve conditions, but it is the only way I can see to stop the race to the bottom and maybe bring at least some casinos back to a semi-decent level of decency and legitimacy, which has been lost to the industry and only promises to get worse, unless we players start to take action as a group and quickly.
     
  3. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Could you kindly name the casinos, please? I fully agree with you and I'm sure many others do but not all of us will go searching to figure out what casinos are causing these problems :)
     
  4. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I've never understood the x-day wait for withdrawls either. The only reason would be so you change your mind and reverse the withdrawl and lose it. Most of the microgaming casinos also employ at least a 24-48 'pending period' as well. I've told the ones I play at to process my cashins immediately and don't put them in the pending period. Riverbelle & Lucky Nugget both have complied with this request.

    I'm not sure which Playtechs you guys are referring to, but I'll tell you what some that I play at do (confirmed after multiple w/d's):

    Casino Fortune, Mapau & Miami Beach - 1 business day :D

    Club Dice, NY Casino, Kiwi Casino - 4 business days :boring:

    Sun Palace - 9 day wait (stated)! I only did 1 w/d there and it took about 2 months! :mad:
     
  5. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Fortune Lounge does not have any limitations on withdrawals and we would like to know where you have found the "secretely added clause" that limits withdrawals to 10x the deposit ????????
     
  6. tomo4789

    tomo4789 Dormant account

    Spearmaster I will post the name of the casino after the pay me. Which ought to be right around the middle of june.
     
  7. tomo4789

    tomo4789 Dormant account

    doktersuz, I have to disagree with you about microgaming casinos, especially the fortune lounge casinos who have been great to me. I have never had a problem with a single microgaming casino. My mistakes was going away from my old standbyes. Every microgaming casino I have ever played at has paid (provided I didnt lose everything :-0) relatively quickly with little or no hassel. Including The forune lounge casinos which have some of the best customer service around. I have also had great experiences with Crazy vegas, Spin
    Palace and the jackpot city casinos. Ive learned my lesson now an Ill keep my money with companies that have treated me well in the past.
     
  8. doktersuz

    doktersuz Dormant account

    I've had some excellent experiences in the past with the Fortune Lounge group casinos, as well as some major problems - the same is true of many casino grps and indiv casinos, and I'd like to see a real discussion of the growing problems related to rules that have made it nearly impossible for players to cash out (or get paid, even if they do, lol).
    I stick by my statements about the growing trends in the industry that are leading almost all casinos, including those considered the "most respected" or most "legit" to adopt rules and behaviors that have no legitimate purpose and essentially go far enough beyond any legitimate purpose to be called inappropriate and even fraudulent. We all seem to be so afraid to use that word, even when terms and conditions are designed to create a situation that is no longer gambling and leaves the casino as the winner in nearly every situation, due to rules that would never be accepted in a legitimate land-based casino and are not accepted by this community, in theory, but are quiet accepted now by pretending there aren't any problems. It's time to ask ourselves why we have allowed things to get so bad and why we are so unwilling to take responsibility to improving the industry, by demanding changes and refusing to play at casinos that maintain outrageous and unfair terms and conditions. I think it's time for the players, in general, to face the issue of gambling addiction and its role in the rapid slide in the ethics of online casinos and players' denial of problems with the industry. It's a difficult issue to face, but it must be faced or this industry is going to become everything its critics and opponents claim - and worse. But on the flip-side, if we face reality within ourselves and within the industry, we can improve it and help it become the industry everything thought it would be by now.
    As for the statement by the Fortune Lounge Group that they have no payout limits on their bonuses,
    I'll paste the rules from one of the 4 promotions I received this week (1 for each casino I've played at at some point in the past - they're sent every week for every casino in the grp). The percentage of the bonus offered and the maximum deposit amt eligible for the bonus vary every week and by casino, but the maximum payout limit of $120 has been exactly the same for all casinos and regardless of whether the bonus is 10% of the deposit or 40%.
    I noticed the addition of a maximum payout of $120 a few weeks ago related to all their weekly promos - but I doubt most people saw it or were able to read it. Below is the fine print exactly as it appears in one of the promos I received this week - they differ in the %, but not the maximum payout:

    * 40% purchase match offer applies to all purchases between Thursday
    May 22 and Sunday May 25, to a combined purchase total of $300.
    Maximum payout: $120.
     
  9. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    There is a huge difference between "maximum allowed withdrawal" and "maximum payout".

    "Withdrawal" refers to a cash-in and we do not have any limits on cash-in amounts.

    In your last posting you refer to a limit placed on a purchase match promotion ($120 = 40% 0f $300). We also do not have a $120 limit on our purchase match promotions (2 of our other casinos have purchase match promotions of 30% match up to $1000 and 20% match up to $1000). It would be totally insane to have a maximum of $120 on all promotions.

    VP Operations
    Fortune Lounge
     
  10. tomo4789

    tomo4789 Dormant account

    An update on my never ending cashin process at Grand Banks casino. I requested a cashin on May 21st. I was informed I would have to wait 9 business days for my cashin to be processed. Now after two weeks they tell me it will be two more weeks. Great customer service
     
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Did they give you an explanation for these unnecessary delays?
     
  12. rovert

    rovert Dormant account

    I have a similar challenge with Grand Banks.
    I requested a cashin on May 17th.

    I emailed them on May 29th and got the reply "Neteller withdrawals usually take 7 business days
    to process. Unfortunately, we are currently experiencing a back log of
    Neteller withdrawals. Therefore, they are taking longer then usual.

    Please bear with us a little while longer."


    I just emailed them again and they replied within 10 minutes with "Unfortunately we are still experiencing a
    backlog. Please be assured you will you will receive your funds shortly.


    I wonder what "shortly" means !!!!
     
  13. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Maybe the 70% and 100% webmaster promotions have caught up with them? :) As far as I know webmasters are due payments as well.
     
  14. hip_hop

    hip_hop Dormant account

    As far as Grand Banks is concerned they have always paid me and they have always been slow. I have experienced anywhere from three to seven weeks to get paid. Other than the snail's pace of payment I have never had other problems. Now before everyone here goes ballistic, "Seven weeks! Totally unacceptable!", ask yourself, will you deposit there again? I bet that most of you would, good bonuses and they DO pay. Alas, I am no longer welcome to play most bonuses there but if given the chance I would be back. It's a personal decision. If speedy payment is really important avoid Grand Banks. If it's not quite as important go ahead and play there.

    Hip Hop
     
  15. linda7

    linda7 Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    A mommy...best job ever!
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    To VP of Operations at FortuneLounge,

    I read your response to Doktersuz's post regarding withdrawals and cash-ins. To be quite honest I have no idea what you meant in your reply. Therefore, posted below is what Doktersuz
    posted regarding a promotion he received. Is it or is it not true that the maximum cash out to this promotion was $120?

    * 40% purchase match offer applies to all purchases between Thursday
    May 22 and Sunday May 25, to a combined purchase total of $300.
    Maximum payout: $120.

    Now, If the most you can win is $120, why would anyone take FortuneLounge up on this offer? Please explain if this is true or did I misread your post. Thank you.
     
  16. doktersuz

    doktersuz Dormant account

    Linda - and also to the person posting for Fortune Lounge Casinos:

    First, Linda, thank you for your post, since I now know I'm not alone in this forum in my reading of what the terms said and understanding it to say that the max we could cash out from the bonus is $120 - I also was questioning why I would deposit $300 if the most I could cash out was $120.

    However, I've now read the response to my post by the Fortune Lounge Grp rep, and I want to thank them for 2 things. First, for posting a response here. And 2nd, for changing the wording in the promos sent out every week so that they now say "maximum allowed bonus is $120" instead of "max payout of $120".
    I didn't appreciate the tones of the responses from Fortune Lounge that failed to acknowledge any problem with the promos or the wording. And since I wasn't about to participate in a promo like the one as it was originally stated, I have no way of knowing whether the original wording was simply very bad wording to mean the max bonus allowed would be $120, or whether the policy really was what it appeared to be, and the e-mail discussion here caused a policy change and a change in the wording of the fine print as well. However, while I'll carry a question mark around in my head for a while related to the integrity of the group due to the problems, the bottom line for the moment is that they very quickly fixed the problem, regardless of whether the original policy was what they claimed here or was truly a max cashout of $120 for anyone who used the bonus, and the policy now appears to be changed and the wording of the fine print was changed in the next set of promos sent out after this discussion, saying max bonus is $120.
    That's positive and responsive, and since I had planned on asking Fortune Grp to change the wording if I and others misunderstood the fine print (Linda understood same thing we did), and they did it before I was able to ask, they do deserve some credit for making the change, and I thank them for that.
    Hope this clarifies the current status for you Linda, even the situation prior to the recent change in wording remains muddy.
     
  17. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Sounds like Grand Banks has taken a page out of the Atlantic Interbet 'how to pay as slowly as possible' manual. 2 - 3 month waits even for fedex or wire transfer withdrawls were not unusual there.
     
  18. gramsey

    gramsey Dormant account

    atlantic interbet went beyond slow payment to NO payment
     
  19. rovert

    rovert Dormant account

    I got paid by Grand Banks. Withdraw on May 17th paid on June 6th. I am happy as long as they pay.
     
  20. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi doktersuz

    Thank you for your comments and the much appreciated acknowledgement.

    We merely changed the wording in order to eliminate any confusion.(of course you played a major role in the change). Please be assured that we have never had a policy of maximum cash-in on any promotion or otherwise. There is absolutely NO LIMIT on any cash-in of any kind as long as the wagering requirements have been met.

    No sane person would take up any promotion where there is a cash-in limit attached.

    VP Operations
    Fortune Lounge
     

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