how slots work, what do you guys think?

[steinhaug]

Kimss, quick question, I'm just curious what programming language are most of the software programs that you develop written in ?

In the good old days I developed games, demoes and software on the C64 in machinecode. Was into demoes and assembly on Amiga, so there is were that experience comes from. Theese days it's PHP and MySQL which is my line of work. Programming is programming, once you know how the computer works it all falls into place, whatever the language really. They all have their advantage.

 

[RobWin]

In the good old days I developed games, demoes and software on the C64 in machinecode. Was into demoes and assembly on Amiga, so there is were that experience comes from. Theese days it's PHP and MySQL which is my line of work. Programming is programming, once you know how the computer works it all falls into place, whatever the language really. They all have their advantage.

That's what my wife used to write her programs in too, back when she was working in the industry. Thanks...

 

[hippo925]

Sure, however if the point is to ensure profit you would go the extra mile. Programming a "random" cycle which is random in every cycle, however predictable in the way that the software can take advantage of good and bad cycles is very easy. In the end the total payout will also be 95% (or what you want it to be) and the accountants will be happy, stats will look great and everything.

As a software developer I can inform you this is very easy. Nobody says each cycle is identical, nobody says a cycle is even predictable. What is merely the case is that a cycle should in the end have 95% payout. This my friend, is an entirely different approach - the outcome will still look purely random at _all_ times whatever way you look at it since you can always add some spins to even the odds.

this actually makes a lot of sense to me. i was told pretty much the same thing in regards to programming.

the thing i think is important is that many of the explanations are in regards to b & M slots by companies like igt and aristocrat, and Eliot himself!

can these definitions and explanations apply to online slots just as accurately? i mean... if igt uses PAR sheets to determine the payouts over 10000000 spins, that's gonna be random for any of us, but...........

it's not like there is a "standard" that online slots use. i think a lot of people suspect that different algorythms exist in different slot games at different casinos. but like kimss said, there would be no way to prove or show it since the end result will always seem like the predetermined payback percentage.

i've always wondered if an online casino would be willing to take any sort of variance on their part... or would it make more sense to have programming that eliminates any risk for the casino yet still would reach a certain percentage range every month that would look "random" under scrutiny.

it would suck for a small online casino to have many small bettors and then one guy comes along, bets big, and puts the casino in the red for the month.

we've all read about the "glitches" in online slots and poker games, English Harbor and rtg's fruit frenzy slot comes to mind. I kept wondering, especially on the rtg fruit frenzy game with the bonus problem, how could there be such a specific glitch that only affects the bonus? (if you think long and hard about this one with the information from this thread.......you should have an AHA! moment!)

thanks for all the input and tell me what you guys think!!

 

[Rusty]

This argument as to why Casinos would rig slots because they can make money anyway is the most common and dumbest of all the "online slots are random" arguments.
A fair and random slot with 97% payout will on average make the Casino 3%.Simple.
If the high rollers hit the big wins while the low rollers suck out then it could lose money.Unlikely but possible.
Against that scenario you can have a slot that will guarantee you a 25% profit with a Zero chance of it ever being proven the game is rigged.
So why would a Casino rig its online slots again?
Call me an idiot but don't presume I am one.

I have shown that MG and RTG slots are not true random but use dynamic weighting to resolve the outcomes.
The results are still random but the chances of each outcome are not equal.

I know that Zoozie and others believe MG are random and that the payouts can not be adjusted but this belief is based on a false premise.

That is it was found that at least some MG 3 reel slots must use weighting for the reelband/paytable to equate with the payout% but because the reelband/paytable of the 5 reel slots did give a natural payout that was around 95% it was assumed these are not weighted and therefore fair and random.
That is the false premise.

I have pointed out many times various statistical anomalies that simply scream out "DYNAMIC WEIGHTING"
Sure you can still have a weighted slot that is random and gives a fair game but I have yet to come across one.

Now go play, have fun but one last time...

THEY ARE NOT TRULY RANDOM

 

[steinhaug]

And havn't we all heard of the scam in Las Vegas, were some slot companies programmed in cycles. By inserting coins in a certain matter the slots "switched" to expected payout (like under testing) but when set back into the casino they just ate money.

This was mentioned in a documentary on slots I saw some time. It's just to much money in the industry, and they know we are suckers on the slot, so it's only "human" to get greedy on their part and make the system bullet proof. We are greedy, why shouldn't they be?

 

[vinylweatherman]

And havn't we all heard of the scam in Las Vegas, were some slot companies programmed in cycles. By inserting coins in a certain matter the slots "switched" to expected payout (like under testing) but when set back into the casino they just ate money.

This was mentioned in a documentary on slots I saw some time. It's just to much money in the industry, and they know we are suckers on the slot, so it's only "human" to get greedy on their part and make the system bullet proof. We are greedy, why shouldn't they be?

There was also the case of some people who were arrested for using a small device that was fed the outcomes of a few spins, and could then compute the probable outcomes of the rest. Since the casino operators had these people arrested and charged, it follows that the device actually worked!
If the device did not work, they would just sit back laughing as the hapless punters fed the slots in the false belief they had an advantage. The only other occasion I have heard of "devices" being a problem was at the blackjack table and roulette wheel, where cards can be counted electronically to dynamically compute the expected return of each play, and at the roulette wheel, a laser measuring device was connected to a computer simulation of the physics of a roulette wheel, allowing a favoured sector to be computed before the croupier announced "no more bets please".

UK fruit machines can be predicted in the same way, but it is harder now that the cycles and blocks are more complicated, because of the greater computational power in modern machines.

 

[Slotster!]

And havn't we all heard of the scam in Las Vegas, were some slot companies programmed in cycles. By inserting coins in a certain matter the slots "switched" to expected payout (like under testing) but when set back into the casino they just ate money.

... and a plot line in "Oceans Thirteen"...