How 'Random' Are Slots?

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
No wonder people start new threads. They are probably hoping for one to stay on track for once instead of getting derailed half a page in and become a text-chat of nothingness.

I am all for a bit of banter/fun and diversity sure but EVERY THREAD. Just saying.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
After playing online slots for awhile (particularly playngo) I'm noticing that for the most part slots aren't really random. I don't have any 'real' data to back this up, just first hand experience, but maybe someone will agree with what I'm seeing here...

I notice on slots like playngo there seems to be two types of spins.

1. The first type of spin seems to be truly random, In playngo you can tell these spins seem to be random because if you play a slot like rise of olympus for example, they take about a half second longer to actually load. (maybe it's the game calculating the output).

2. The second type of spin seems to be some kind of predetermined spin. Once again on a slot like rise of olympus these spins load really fast. Infact if you watch the game closely these fast spins are the only times the God mini features will trigger. You also will notice that a lot of these predetermined spins have repeating patterns to them. So much so that I can tell with good accuracy when a bonus will trigger or not just by what shows up on a particular reel.

So this leads me to believe that for the most part I think slots (playngo) are not entirely random. If I had to take a guess, I'd say 30-40% of the spins are truly random the rest are predetermined spins that are randomly chosen from a set amount. And this amount doesn't seem that large because I see a lot of repeating screens / reels.

Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand it kind of makes sense. I don't think a lot of people would play slots if most of the spins were truly random as these games can be quite complicated and the odds of actually hitting a true 'random' bonus might be almost impossible so predetermined spins/out comes make sense. But if they predetermine most of the spins, how truly 'random' can a game be and it makes it that much easier for a slot machine to be 'rigged' not to pay.

The only protection a lot of people seem to hide behind in terms of thinking their casino games aren't rigged is.. "its random". Well what happens when most of the game isnt truly random. What if only 30% is the game is truly random and 70% of the game is predetermined reels. Would you still play slot machines knowing the only random factor in the slot machine is either you have a 70% chance to lose with 30% chance of getting a truly random spin and maybe winning something?
This has always been the way I see it. It is not 100% completely random. Not a chance but like you say to a degree it has to be that way.

Take it a step further though with electronic black/jack and roulette running on the same basis AND WITHOUT DOUBT THEY DO. You are now playing a game that has an enhanced edge compared to a “live game”. The problem being you don’t know how big that edge is.

Casinos have a very plausible “OUT” in this case because the authenticity of the game is untraceable. Why? Simple the house edge is only what it is, if everyone is playing the optimum strategy which of course they never will be.

Think of roulette as a slot that has a rtp of 97.3%. This is what it should return and there is no variable in as much as you have a fixed stake and you spin the reels. Investigation would be needed if it was only showing 43% for example at audit. Not saying it categorically could not be showing that return but there would questions asked. (In an ideal world)

Now think of electronic roulette where the game theoretically pays 97.3% (only on optimum strategy) The game could be rigged to hell (I.e.the ball dodges the highest payout) and the plausible answer is “well they chose the wrong numbers”. It would take somebody months to go through it with a fine tooth comb to establish patterns and even then it would be difficult to prove and we all know that isn’t going to happen anyway.
 

goatwack

Love grows where my rosemary goes
CAG
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Location
Londonia
Given that they're software programmes, they could never be deemed truly random or luck/ chance, as the software has to 'manually' select a number, hence it is forced to act as it were.

Pure randomness would entail outside unpredictability and the 'unknown', and pure chance.

That's not to say slots aren't gimped, lord knows I went from £20 to £80 yesterday on Georgie Porgie and the bastard just wouldn't give me a favourable bonus after that.

Rigged filth
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
Anyone thinking a piece of software written by humans for profit, AKA with a 3-5% or more house margin, is completely random should stop playing slots immediately.

Just remember what has been preached to us for years - game suppliers do not know the bet size we are using. That was until trancemonkey confirmed that they know but it is not used for the spin result. How long will we believe that? Another 20 or so years? :rolleyes:

You must have missed the post I made that it isn't true that the stake don't matter, and that stake is a factor as some games have different profiles for different stakes and after a while trance also confirmed this, I think it was in that thread somewhere.

To anyone that is still unclear, I know for 100% FACT that some slots can, and do pay differently on different stakes, as I did the math on some, but they all deliver the same RTP on each stake making them perfectly legal under UKGC rules.

However this don't apply to all slots.
 

DrFeelgood

Newbie member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Location
Uk, London
Modern slot machines use a computer to generate random numbers, and these determine the outcomes of the game. The important thing to remember is that the results are truly random. The game doesn't work on any kind of cyclical basis, and slot machine jackpots don't become due. Slots don't get hot or cold, either
 

goatwack

Love grows where my rosemary goes
CAG
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
Modern slot machines use a computer to generate random numbers, and these determine the outcomes of the game. The important thing to remember is that the results are truly random. The game doesn't work on any kind of cyclical basis, and slot machine jackpots don't become due. Slots don't get hot or cold, either
Not sure that's strictly true, as a machine or software programme's not really capable of being truly random, based on chance, luck and whatever external factors.

So it would need to be programmed to follow certain algorithms to 'select' certain results from a pool available. So I'd say they're pseudo-random at best
 

Playford7

Permanent Ban: Too much flaming
MM
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Jul 10, 2016
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North east England
Not sure that's strictly true, as a machine or software programme's not really capable of being truly random, based on chance, luck and whatever external factors.

So it would need to be programmed to follow certain algorithms to 'select' certain results from a pool available. So I'd say they're pseudo-random at best
So Randomly rigged with a hint of compensation.
 

myke35

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Location
Uk
I can't comment on the validity of this info but it makes, I thought, interesting reading. *snip*
 
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Kroffe

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
LMAO.... nope, because the blue goat is on the next page of the game sheet. :D

View attachment 126874
But its not making any sense.
Thats an upper case letter, and yet its listed as a "Low - A"
So can we really trust them when they say thats a blue goat?
I mean, the goat is not even blue.
 

myke35

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Location
Uk
Please don't link to outside forums; rather, import (copy/paste) info in if needed :thumbsup:

At a high level it was suggesting slot networks profile players & their play to determine how to distribute funds. There's no such thing as a free lunch after all.

Personally I see a regular pattern in my own play that goes win-lose-win a % of loss back-lose (rinse & repeat)
I'm also quite conscious of the common tease or win as reward for heading for bust town at your regular stake rather than reducing it or walking to encourage further play/deposit. Obviously the outcome you get there isn't guaranteed.
 

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