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How many spins have you lost consecutively

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by walmartman56, Jun 16, 2016.

    Jun 16, 2016
  1. walmartman56

    walmartman56 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    inventory clerk
    Location:
    martinez, CA
    Im asking this question because i recently played 150 games of 30 ball bingo at ignition casino and didnt win. I wrote to them asking how this could happen and was assured they abide by all rules and that a players trust is their main priority. Is there some kind of mathematical formula to follow to help you decide what games to play?
     
  2. Jun 16, 2016
  3. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    I don't play bingo as I'd sooner stare at the wall, but as far as slots, you'd expect some return in a decent amount of spins. I've personally, maybe had around 20-30 spins with zero win, more with less than my initial bet.

    Stick to accredited casinos where you can expect fair games.
     
  4. Jun 16, 2016
  5. walmartman56

    walmartman56 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    inventory clerk
    Location:
    martinez, CA
    Thank you for your post. I didnt see ignition on the accredited list.
     
  6. Jun 16, 2016
  7. Coluch

    Coluch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    london
    Location:
    uk
    55 spins... how to forget it :D
     
  8. Jun 16, 2016
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    My respective record from my logs:

    St*rb*rst 21
    Thunderstruck 2 19
    Raping Rhino 31
    BDBA 25
    Ruby Slippers 6 (yes, try and NOT get a win for 6 spins!)
    Kronos 27
    Power Stars 47
    DoA 11
    Twin Spin 16
    IR 22
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 16, 2016
  11. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    That SOAB game has (only once admittedly) managed a massive 52 win less spins and a whopping 96 with no join ups for me.

    Although I see some 'belters' in your videos and some nice screenies from other members - It has become in recent sessions my nemesis and very close to joining my 'Never again' list.

    I think it would be easier in future to simply Paypal you my deposit :p
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jun 16, 2016
  13. richmcd

    richmcd Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Developmental Editor
    Location:
    Worldwide
    What bet are you making? I'm afraid it depends on the rules of the game (I assume this is a game you're playing against the casino, not other players?). But 150 games without a win doesn't seem that low for bingo. Bingo/keno games have notoriously deceptive maths. Just because the number of balls in the game seems low doesn't mean the odds aren't astronomical. I think the statistic for the standard keno jackpot (80 balls, 20 drawn, match all 20 to win) is that if every human who has ever lived since the dawn of our race did nothing but play keno for their entire life, you still wouldn't expect the jackpot to have been won. It's quadrillions to one. And pays out at about 40,000 to 1, I think! It's easily the shittest bet you can make. The casino could let you make the bet for FREE and they'd still not really be risking anything. But at first glance it doesn't seem THAT much worse than a normal lottery, because the numbers you can see at the outset (20, 80) don't seem that bad.

    So it really depends on what specific bet you're making. It looks like there are 9 spaces on a card. In the extreme case, if you're drawing 9 balls out of 30 and have to match all 9, the odds would be 9/30 x 8/29 x 7/28 x 6/27 x 5/26 x 4/25 x 3/24 x 2/23 x 1/20 which I make 1/13,656,825 (one in thirteen million, six hundred and fifty six thousand, eight hundred and twenty-five)!:eek: So no, losing 150 in a row wouldn't be a surprise!! ;)

    I expect (hope!) you're playing something less extreme like that, but even a very modest seeming bet might actually be millions to one against.

    Comparing it to runs of bad slot luck probably won't be the info you're looking for. They're very different beasts.
     
    4 people like this.
  14. Jun 16, 2016
  15. richmcd

    richmcd Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Developmental Editor
    Location:
    Worldwide
    Right. Your question intrigued me so I looked up the game. And the short answer is that the odds on this aren't quite as terrible as I'd expected, but they're still terrible. If you want some fun, better odds, and the chance of winning a jackpot, you should pick a slot, ANY slot and play that instead. If you like this kind of fixed payout, not very complicated game (seems like total drudgery to me, but to each their own), then print out a blackjack table and switch to blackjack. If you want more info, though, including some maths, read on...

    For those that don't know the game, it's just bingo/keno with some slightly unusual parameters. A ticket has just 9 numbers. You choose how many tickets you want, and how many balls (out of a low-seeming 30) you want to draw (the choices are 20, 22 or 24). The game draws the balls and you get paid for every ticket you match ALL 9 balls on. I couldn't find a paytable, but from the experiment I ran (with play money! I'm not insane!), a 10c winning ticket pays $8, $2.70 and $1 for the 20, 22 and 24 ball games respectively. The huge difference in those payout values compared to the (seemingly) small difference in the number of chosen balls should already indicate how human intuition completely breaks where combinatorics are concerned (even more so than with slot variance).

    You calculate the odds of winning using the combinatorial function. This is basically the number of different ways of choosing one set of things out of a larger set of things. For example, the total number of possible tickets (i.e., the number of ways to choose 9 numbers out of 30) is a little over fourteen million (14,307,150). The maths for calculating the precise odds of winning has a few more steps, but it's just variants of this function and simple division. I'm happy to explain it if you like - you can easily do it with a calculator, and even with a pen and paper if you have a little patience - but I'll just assume you want the results. I cheated and did it in 30 secs in Excel, which you can see below this post.

    But basically, the odds of a SINGLE ticket winning are just over 1%, 3% and 9% for the 20, 22 and 24 ball games, respectively. Multiplying that by the payout gives an RTP of 93.9%, 93.9% and 91.4% for the 20, 22 and 24 ball games, respectively. The 20 ball game is slightly better (because of rounding), while the 24 ball game is absolutely awful - some of the worst online odds you'll see. If you're not familiar with RTP, basically it means that for every dollar you spend on the 20 ball game, you can expect to get 91 cents back. If it was a bank account, every year they'd take 9% of your money. Online slots tend to have a minimum RTP of 95%, while games like blackjack can be over 99%. But there's no chance of hitting a win bigger than 2.5x your stake with blackjack, so often the slot trade-off is better, sacrificing long-term returns for potential short-term gains. This game is the worst of both worlds.

    I'm afraid this still doesn't answer your original question of how unlikely a 150 run loss is, because we don't know the details. Which version of the game were you playing? How many tickets were you buying? If you're buying 100 tickets, then that's like 100 slot spins at once. Instead of asking how many consecutive losing slot spins we've had, you should ask how many consecutive losing slot sessions we've had. But even that isn't much use, because of variance. There's no way to win a huge jackpot on 30 ball bingo, it's just a pure example of the reverse compound interest formula that makes gambling a losing proposition in the long run. If you play a large number of low value tickets at once it will just eat your money.

    I know it's not really my place to say, but please stop playing this... It's not like slots where you're riding a variance rollercoaster, hoping to leap off at the top before the inevitable crash, this is just burning money. If this is the kind of game you like, at least switch to blackjack. The casino wasn't cheating you. It's just a shitty, shitty game.

    *EDIT* I guess this isn't quite fair. I didn't realise you can buy individual tickets (it looked like you were stuck with 40-100). I guess if you're playing one ticket at a time, hoping for an 80x payout, then this becomes a super-high variance game you can theoretically get a long way ahead on (and 150 losses in a row would be pretty unlucky, but not that unlucky). But that's not a risk I'd be willing to take, not at these odds. And the 100 ticket version is definitely just a money pit.

    How many  spins have you lost consecutively: 30 Ball Bingo RTP.jpg,Jun 16, 2016
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Jun 16, 2016
  17. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Ignition is a relatively new casino from the Bodog/Bovada group.

    Ignition has never been accredited - but it probably would have ended up there if the owners of this group hadn't changed their affiliate terms without warning, which lead to the above 2 brand being removed from the accredited section a few weeks ago. :(
    Shame, because as far as casino operators go, they are otherwise honest & reputable.

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 16, 2016
  19. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    I remember having some wagering left at Best Casino earlier in the year, and I thought I would do 50 spins @ £10.00 on Creature of the Black Lagoon. I had 25 dead spins in a row, so I moved on feeling utterly sick. :mad:
     
  20. Jun 16, 2016
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    What, you were allowed to bet £10 a spin while under wagering?? :confused:
     
  22. Jun 16, 2016
  23. theapple

    theapple IR hates apples

    Occupation:
    i work... slave labor sort of work. like most of u
    Location:
    far far away
    they dont have any rules about max bet, and you can play all the games too. I just registered there a couple of days actually, and i liked their straighforward terms. Only made one deposit so far but one of my next deposits is probably going their way.

    also im pretty sure i was able to cashout at some point, because it was showing separate cash and bonus amounts. After i finished my initial first deposit wagering, i still had like $20 winnings from 100 gonzo free spins showing as bonus money, but the rest turned into cash and i believe i was able to cashout even without wagering free spins winnings

    Not entirely sure about it though, so some more experienced player could clear things up a bit, but i really liked the place because games were running smoothly and their T&C have no traps whatsoever. I dont think they have all netent games though, as some i wanted to play were missing at that time :oops:
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jun 17, 2016
  25. walmartman56

    walmartman56 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    inventory clerk
    Location:
    martinez, CA
    I knew that if I posted this question I would get the AWESOME answers. I really appreciate the time and effort.:lolup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 17, 2016
  27. walmartman56

    walmartman56 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    inventory clerk
    Location:
    martinez, CA
    I welcome any input that you may have for me. And I will stop playing this game. Thank you for proving to me in numbers as to why I REALLY REALLY should not play. Im new here obviously and hope to learn more. Thank you
     
  28. Jun 17, 2016
  29. walmartman56

    walmartman56 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    inventory clerk
    Location:
    martinez, CA
    sammy hagar wrote a song called " I Cant Drive 55" this goes back to the late 70"S
     
  30. Jun 17, 2016
  31. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
    Now you have got me counting losing spins on Ruby Slippers :axeman:
     
  32. Jun 18, 2016
  33. gambyx7

    gambyx7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    historian
    Location:
    Europe
    Adventure Palace - 23 (fresh now)...

    Plus - there is nothing to see :) Maybe it woluld be nice that we see only winning combos :)

    [​IMG]

    BDBA - 25
     
  34. Jun 18, 2016
  35. MichaelR

    MichaelR Registered User

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    ill add later
    How about giving up on the 20th dead spins? lol
    You guys were great :)
     
  36. Jun 21, 2016
  37. Vicky

    Vicky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    gambling, freelance
    Location:
    Australia
    33 dead spins in Cat's Royal and the empty bottle of Martini. That was awful Thursday's evening :mad:
     
  38. Jun 22, 2016
  39. MichaelR

    MichaelR Registered User

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    ill add later
    That was a pretty awesome experienced. So much just to kill time and enjoying life for money :)
     

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