How is eCOGRA any Different than Safebet?

dirk_dangerous

Dormant account
Other than a fancier website, I dont see how Ecogra is any different than the sham watchdog organization, Safebet.

- Safebet was started by Real Time Gaming
- Ecogra was started by Microgaming

- Safebet only had RTG casinos as their approved members.
- Ecogra only has Microgaming casinos as their approved members.

Other than a bunch of PR promises and other BS on the Ecogra website, I really dont see much difference between the two.

Its a fair question and one that should be answered in detail before everyone gets a twitching hard-on over Ecogra. At this point, I see the Ecogra seal of approval as next to worthless.
 

jpm

Dormant account
dirk_dangerous said:
Other than a fancier website, I dont see how Ecogra is any different than the sham watchdog organization, Safebet.

- Safebet was started by Real Time Gaming
- Ecogra was started by Microgaming

- Safebet only had RTG casinos as their approved members.
- Ecogra only has Microgaming casinos as their approved members.
Well lets see. First of all, they've just added a couple of NON Microgaming casinos to their list, so that point is moot.

Second, they actually have settled a few player disputes from posters here on casinomeister, and quite quickly from what they said. Did Safebet ever do anything similar? I don't remember reading of any such examples, but I may simply not recall.

Again I have to ask, why not let them prove themselves before you try to tear them down?
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
dirk_dangerous said:
At this point, I see the Ecogra seal of approval as next to worthless.
Aside from a dispute resolution service offered on behalf of casinos that will probably see one complaint every ten years between them, it's a totally meaningless "seal", and nothing but another tactic to suck in the mug punters. All my previous arguments about financial compromise and lack of disclosure, both of which utterly invalidate the entire excercise, have gone unaddressed or sidetracked.

The only difference to Safebet is having a prominent industry figure as their tireless front-man.
 
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DeMango

Dormant account
It would be nice if there was a testing of the games. Let's see if European Blackjack (MG) has an expected value of -.40% as it should or not. Let's see if the odds stay the same betting one unit or 100. The same odds night or day. The same odds if we have tripled our bankroll. Who cares if we can get paid if they have stolen our money? :(
DeMango
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
DeMango said:
It would be nice if there was a testing of the games. Let's see if European Blackjack (MG) has an expected value of -.40% as it should or not. Let's see if the odds stay the same betting one unit or 100. The same odds night or day. The same odds if we have tripled our bankroll. Who cares if we can get paid if they have stolen our money? :(
DeMango
Ecogra claims to certify the randomness and the fairness of the games, which would involve verifying things like these, but what they actually do and how is a very closely guarded secret. There is no information provided to players.
 

hhcfreebie

Dormant account
GrandMaster said:
Ecogra claims to certify the randomness and the fairness of the games, which would involve verifying things like these, but what they actually do and how is a very closely guarded secret. There is no information provided to players.
Good point.
It's either they keep it as a top secret, or they didn't do anything at all except check the report from pricewatch.
I strongly suspect it's the later.
IMO, caruso's points are 100% accurate.
Yes, it's nice to have an extra layer of player protection.
Nope, they can't prove a damn thing.
 

dirk_dangerous

Dormant account
jpm said:
Well lets see. First of all, they've just added a couple of NON Microgaming casinos to their list, so that point is moot.

Again I have to ask, why not let them prove themselves before you try to tear them down?
Hmm, let's see, maybe because I'm not a rube? Or maybe because I know a PR stunt when I see it?

Ecroga was started by Microgaming. So we have an online casino watchdog organization started by a company that makes software for online casinos. That is the beginning and the end of the problem.

But I guess common sense isn't appropriate when discussing these issues.

Sorry folks, but Im not buying what Ecogra is selling.
 

jpm

Dormant account
dirk_dangerous said:
Hmm, let's see, maybe because I'm not a rube? Or maybe because I know a PR stunt when I see it?

Ecroga was started by Microgaming. So we have an online casino watchdog organization started by a company that makes software for online casinos. That is the beginning and the end of the problem.

But I guess common sense isn't appropriate when discussing these issues.

Sorry folks, but Im not buying what Ecogra is selling.
So because your point is disproven, now its a PR stunt that they've added other than MG casinos to their approved casinos?

And exactly how much is it costing you for eCOGRA to exist?? NOTHING! So you're not buying anything to begin with. And if they're helping people get disputes resolved, which they've already done, how is this a bad thing??

I'll even give you the part about guaranteeing fairness of games, toss that out and consider them as just a dispute resolution service. What's wrong then? Talk about loss of common sense.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
On the face of it there's nothing wrong with that - but it's not what this thing is really about, and just another example of the duplicity the gambling industry thrives on.

Website banner ad:

Used condoms for sale - come pay us a visit! (We can also conclusively prove that Elvis Presley is alive and well and living in peaceful retirement in Georgia)

What's going to bring the click throughs? Used condoms or Elvis? But they're still going to sell a few used condoms on the basis of the Elvis claim alone, hogwash though it obviouly is.

The "dispute" resolution is a wallpaper front for the REAL DEAL of Ecogra: software fairness. Heck, you got a problem with Lucky Nugget? Vegas Palms? Gaming Club? CON? Send me your account number and I'll have one of my neighbour's kids look into it for you - and it'll be sorted within two hours. Dispute resolution for 99.9% top-notch casinos (at least in terms of customer service / payments etc)? You might as well offer a refund service for dissatisfied Stradivarius customers.

Ecogra is about software verification - beginning, middle and end. Dispute resolution is the side issue to end all side issues.

And if I have to choose between buying Ecogra's verification claims in their current state or buying used condoms, I choose the latter any day.
 

dirk_dangerous

Dormant account
jpm said:
So because your point is disproven, now its a PR stunt that they've added other than MG casinos to their approved casinos?
No, I meant all of Ecogra is a PR stunt.

Ecogra doesn't cost me anything, and if they settle disputes, great. But I don't want gamblers to see the Ecogra seal of approval and then come to the conclusion that it means much of anything.

It's the same thing as a Costa Rican casino licensea meaningless emblem to make players feel a little safer.
 
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