How does a Casino decide, "Whom" to Cheat?

love2winalot

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Hiya: If you look around you see that almost EVERY Casino, and EVERY software provider, has been accused of cheating, adjusting the software, or other such things, quite often. Some, more than others, and the player gets wiped out.:mad:

At these very same Casino's, and these same Software providers, you see Winning Screenshots, and post of players winning, and getting paid, and the games going down in a ngative varience, and also up into a positive varience, and ending up where they are suppose to. and the like.:thumbsup:

So, for the sake of this topic, lets say, "BOTH", are true. Because we have people, on both sides of the issue, that swear one or the other is true. If both are true, then what is the Casino using as the qualifying determination to switch from Normal game play, to Adjusting the Odds even more in the Casio's favor game play?:confused:

Casino: "OK, Lets take this guy out". Ah hahahahaha. Now YOU are broke. This is not about, WHAT they did, or HOW they did it, this is about, 'Why YOU", and even, "What about the other guy, he won even more than i did, and you paid him? :confused:

Kind of like your Older car getting stolen, but right across the street the neighbor has the exact same car, but his was fixed up, new paint/tires, and so on. Why did they steal your car and not his?

Your thoughts? On the casino, not the car.....hehehe
 

rouletteguy

Experienced Member
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May 28, 2010
Location
Ontario
Software can be alot faster and smarter than us the famous unbeatable chess computer is the grand daddy to casino software. Most believe you place your bet then your given a losing outcome. In that case we're all screwed,
Some believe the computer analyzes your betting strategy first and based on your past history produces an outcome to make you lose (The ole hit and run roulette strategy counters this)

If I were doing it I'd have the machine programmed to note your starting balance and never let it exceed 20% profit. I have played a few casino's where I could like clock work win 9 bets in a row then 8 then 7 etc. a big bet to recoup was followed by a series of losses until I was at the point in scale I was supposed to be. To me this is RTP roulette. You cannot win alot because it is not random. you can win 10 bucks then start losing.

I've also played and been successful only to log in and find they have changed the table limits to less than desirable, So you got a fair game there until you win. they can't alter odds of the game through software so they limit your ability to bet big and recoup.

The one I hate is only a theory but it is the RNG that sits idle. there is no point leaving and returning later because it will wait for you and you will be playing through the same losing streak you left.

Then there's the server glitch in live games where you just know your gonna lose because of that big pause.

I never really answered your question of how they choose who will lose sorry about that but I don't think every individual's play is monitored either we as humans will never fully trust anything we can't physically see and touch so even if the croupier had our best friend pointing a gun at his head if we lost we would be convinced our friend took a bribe and made us lose.

"That last pause due to server glitch he put the money in his pocket I know it"

Another thing that bugs me is the issue of multiple accounts if you have 1 and only 1 at the casino you can very easily be tracked in losses and successes number of deposits etc. You lose your anonymity due to this. If you do not take a bonus you should not need to register SFA in order to play just certify being old enough and agree to prove it later should you win.
 

manofsteel

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I have seen casinos (Microgaming monthly reports) publish RTP rates of over 100% on their table games. I imagine this would be a very unusual month though. Do they also cheat on those reports? If not, then the casino software must be broken in these cases.

From a software side, this would seem to be very difficult to do without taking randomness completely out of the game. If the casinos were forced to resort to cheating to keep a certain RTP rate, then it would probably have to account for an entire user base rather than just one user. For example, one player places a decent bet, wins, withdraws the money and never logs in again. The software would have to push this mismatch to other players for this system to work properly.

The software would also likely have to build a profile for a player over the long term to figure out the patterns of that user to be effective. How many players don't play long enough for the system to build a profile? Another example would be a user who typically bets the minimum to find a pattern and then flat bets $100 when that pattern hits a favorable point. Is the software going to make that person lose every time he/she makes the larger bet because it makes the software freak out?

However, I don't think it would be that complex. Doesn't the house edge mean anything? Theoretically the casino should be overall ahead because of the house edge. If the casino wanted to cheat, then it would likely only need to alter one result periodically of a typical game to push that house edge just a little higher, and just a small push would translate into much greater profit.

If this were the case, then the casino likely wouldn't need to make enough of a change that it would be suspicious to users. Again, the casino likely wouldn't need to make a big change to the house edge of one user, but rather it could rotate that change throughout the user base.

To me, the real question is, are the reports which certain casino's publish trustworthy? If so, then perhaps the solution to the conspiracy theorists would be to play at those casinos. I don't know if this would satisfy the slots people though. At least with roulette it's easier to see how the game should pay out as it has less variance than a high variance slot.

Just imagine the feature list for rogue software...

*Random cheat mode!

*Imitate software timeout on big bets from random players!

*RTP enforcer!

*Casino phone system. Filter out calls from customers who just got screwed! The phone rings but nobody picks up!

*Virtual customer support! Customer service bot repeats same stupid answers chosen based on our chat question analysis algorithm. (currently in beta, expect users to be extra frustrated if you use this.)
 

Rusty

Banned User - repetitive flaming
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Location
Manchester UK
From a software side, this would seem to be very difficult to do without taking randomness completely out of the game.

I wont make yet another long winded post but whether you believe the software to be fair or less than fair this is a false premise.
 

blacklabrador

Banned User - chargebacks - multiple banned forum
Joined
May 15, 2010
Location
Ohio
I can honestly say I am up overall on the year total from the 4 casinos I have played at. I would be up another grand if I didnt fall into the 3dice trap, that casino has been deleted so I am down to 3. If I thought at anytime I was being cheated I simply would only play at land based casinos. I had a rough year in 07 but 08,09, were overall winning years for me and 2010 is about to be as well. Keep in mind though I play video poker more than 60% of the time so my chances are much higher of turning a profit.
 

voltage1

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GA
Here comes skiny ......Quick ... tighten em up !!!

I have felt the same before :D
 

SlotsLover

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if true, why bar and refuse bonuses?

Hiya: If you look around you see that almost EVERY Casino, and EVERY software provider, has been accused of cheating, adjusting the software, or other such things, quite often. Some, more than others, and the player gets wiped out.:mad:

At these very same Casino's, and these same Software providers, you see Winning Screenshots, and post of players winning, and getting paid, and the games going down in a ngative varience, and also up into a positive varience, and ending up where they are suppose to. and the like.:thumbsup:

So, for the sake of this topic, lets say, "BOTH", are true. Because we have people, on both sides of the issue, that swear one or the other is true. If both are true, then what is the Casino using as the qualifying determination to switch from Normal game play, to Adjusting the Odds even more in the Casio's favor game play?:confused:

Casino: "OK, Lets take this guy out". Ah hahahahaha. Now YOU are broke. This is not about, WHAT they did, or HOW they did it, this is about, 'Why YOU", and even, "What about the other guy, he won even more than i did, and you paid him? :confused:

Kind of like your Older car getting stolen, but right across the street the neighbor has the exact same car, but his was fixed up, new paint/tires, and so on. Why did they steal your car and not his?

Your thoughts? On the casino, not the car.....hehehe

If a casino could cheat specific players, why would any casino ever lock out a player for any reason or even refuse to give them promotions? Why would they be concerned about multiple accounts? As soon as they found out someone was taking on multiple accounts, rather than lock them out or confiscate the winnings, the casino could just make them lose.

Seems to me there is a lot of logic that points to most casinos not cheating players (not to say this never happens, especially at places with proprietary software).
 

Rhyzz

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
United Kingdom
This kinda relates to what has been discussed over software providers changing their RTP's on the fly.

Personally I don't believe it can be done, at least not at any operator licensed in Alderney/IOM/Gib/Malta. These places don't cheat anybody, it's gambling, ie) luck. I've had incredible runs of both good and bad luck. I put £100 into 32Red one day and took over £3k off them within an hour, I just kept hitting the maximums in bonus rounds...then you move on and get spanked!
 

rockycatt

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Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
Id like to here or see on regular basis a [owner player] winner ss and rants if they loose
of course it would be suspect but if there were a few owners /managers
that played and reported on there game play it might get interesting
 

silcnlayc

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Rhyzz This kinda relates to what has been discussed over software providers changing their RTP's on the fly.

Personally I don't believe it can be done, at least not at any operator licensed in Alderney/IOM/Gib/Malta. These places don't cheat anybody, it's gambling, ie) luck. I've had incredible runs of both good and bad luck. I put £100 into 32Red one day and took over £3k off them within an hour, I just kept hitting the maximums in bonus rounds...then you move on and get spanked!

Why ? Because they say so ? Who is watching the hens while the fox plays ? (Ok Rusty, lousy anology but hey, you get the idea I hope :rolleyes: ) J

Just because the casino operators say "Hey, come on over, I am Honest Jack's Casino" and I can proove it...look at all my accreditation from the online casino inspectors xyz and all my winners...So, you find out that the company xyz exists only online with no jusrisdiction over anything...then you find out that all the winners after the first month have been shafted and the casino has run out of money...so...who is to say that they "physically" went and did an audit on the servers that are in la la land ?

I mean, this online gaming is pie in the sky stuff IMO anymore. I think they were more honest years ago unlike the way they have become now.. Yes, I have stopped playing 99%...which is LOT since I have been playing everyday for many years in real money mode..I still claim things have changed for the worse, and that they do play around with the settings and I am starting to believe that they do pick and choose just what player gets the goods (as in juackpots) since many have never won one, but many others have won multiple times which is like lightning in a bottle....how can it hit one person so many times but miss so many others repeatedly if it was true randomness? The odds alone in this is astronomical IMO...(the multiple hits vs the non hits over many years)

Yes, I have given them a fair shake unlike what they have given me lately...they used to be an excellent source of entertainment, but they no longer entertain, just suck you dry because they can..and whoever that little guy is that watches you playing (and I believe that anyone can see what you are doing as long as they have access to the back end operations because I have this same access in our company for all the offices I have to monitor) ...I hope he falls off to sleep on some big ones for the rest of you that still believe....because that might be the only way you will catch one good one anymore..UNLESS you get that star by your name for the day as I said a long time ago that casinos do to certain players to win more than others including jackpots....


.
 
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Rhyzz

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What you have just said applies to any business though? Anyone can set up a business, process some payments and then vanish. The idea of regulation is to stop these scammers. It costs a small fortune to be licensed in one of the decent jurisdictions, much more than any new operator would be able to take in a couple of months of trading and then just dissapear.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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Rhyzz What you have just said applies to any business though? Anyone can set up a business, process some payments and then vanish. The idea of regulation is to stop these scammers. It costs a small fortune to be licensed in one of the decent jurisdictions, much more than any new operator would be able to take in a couple of months of trading and then just dissapear.
But it is already happening in the last few years isn't it? How many became accredited then, bombed out within months if not the year? Look around, there are too many to mention that have done just what I have said would happen...and then disappear or rename themselves to start fresh...to suck in more players and their monies only to fail again..

The only ones I would even consider keeping on my desk is Clubworld Group, Inet (closed my account there because I am not "feeling" good about them anymore for some of the antics they have displayed on top of the fishy randoms lately too, which is just MY opinion), 3Dice and one or two others....The rest, I play in fun mode 100% of the time anymore until the dust settles and we find it regulated if that passes.

.
 

love2winalot

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Hiya: No one has answered the question yet. Did the Casino choose, "YOU" as a specific target, or did they use a Shootgun and hit a lot of targets all at once, and YOU just happen to be one of them?

Can a Casino cheat, "an Individual Player", or can they only cheat across certain games, "video poker" as example, and if affects ALL players in that game?

I have played an lost my $1000 starting bankroll.
I have played, and made $500 profit, gave it back, and then lost my $1000 starting bankroll.
I have played, and was down to my last bet, $25 on 7#'s, and lost, and was broke.
I have played and turned my $1000 starting bankroll into $17,000 net profit over a few months playing.
I have played and Won over 25% of my Bankroll, kept playing, and won more.
I have played, and was down to my last bet, $25 on 7#'s, and won that bet, and won the next bet, and ended up with a big net gain.

All I see is Random. Sometimes I Win, and Sometimes I Lose. I keep depositing if I lost, and I keep depositing if I Win, and withdrew all of the money. I have played at many different types of software. Hell, if i had to take a test, and was asked, "What software is this"? I would fail the test.:oops:

or is it that the Casino can only make adjustments and Ripp you off in games that are Win/Lose only games? leaving multi bet choice games alone, as there is no practical way to manipulate those games?

What if we did a test? What if a bunch of us, all lgged in at the same time, at the same Casino, "that we are sure is playing around with the RNG", and play the same slot machine, will we all get the same results? or will just the, "Target" get ripped off, and the rest of us will get normal play results?
 

Rhyzz

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Simple solution is to stick with the established operators and avoid start-ups. It costs 7 figures to start a Casino these days, the cost of traffic is huge and you need a very big bank balance to get an acquirer on board.

Simple answer to the OP question is you will never know what the casino is up to. Stick to the big operators and they have no reason to alter your RTP or to 'cheat' you because you're one of many thousands of players per day. Unless you're having swings of 6 figures they won't take notice
 

Tony@Tower

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Simple solution is to stick with the established operators and avoid start-ups. It costs 7 figures to start a Casino these days, the cost of traffic is huge and you need a very big bank balance to get an acquirer on board.

Simple answer to the OP question is you will never know what the casino is up to. Stick to the big operators and they have no reason to alter your RTP or to 'cheat' you because you're one of many thousands of players per day. Unless you're having swings of 6 figures they won't take notice

This is very wise advice. Sticking with a company you trust is a good idea, not just for Casinos, but for life in general. I wouldn't buy something from a store I didn't trust and the same is true for playing online :)

I wouldn't say "just stick with the big guys" but stick with people you find you trust.
 

silcnlayc

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Rhyzz: Simple solution is to stick with the established operators and avoid start-ups. It costs 7 figures to start a Casino these days, the cost of traffic is huge and you need a very big bank balance to get an acquirer on board.

Simple answer to the OP question is you will never know what the casino is up to. Stick to the big operators and they have no reason to alter your RTP or to 'cheat' you because you're one of many thousands of players per day. Unless you're having swings of 6 figures they won't take notice
I agree.
love2winalot: Can a Casino cheat, "an Individual Player", or can they only cheat across certain games, "video poker" as example, and if affects ALL players in that game?
I believe they can and do. Not all but many of them in recent times, unlike before. As Rhyzz said, stick with the well established ones and you will be better off IMO.

The reason I say this is because I have played many of today's so called Rogue casinos and groups dailey many years ago, without one bit of a problem, EVER. I always got paid in a timely manner and this is from some of the claimed WORST groups today. Why has it changed so drastically from one end of the spectrum to the other? Technology has grown leaps and bounds in the last few years..

I know games can be manipulated because I can see my entire companies network and can even change things on computers without anyone having a clue clear across town. It is like those little files (cookies) that are dropped by the casino...think about it..what is a cookie?? Something we all allow to be placed on your computer..

Keep thinking.....has anyone uninstalled a casino thinking it's all gone only to find once you re-install it, it pops up with your login name without you entering it??
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Cookies are based on a two-stage process. First the cookie is stored in the user's computer without their consent or knowledge. For example, with customizable Web search engines like My Yahoo!, a user selects categories of interest from the Web page. The Web server then creates a specific cookie, which is essentially a tagged string of text containing the user's preferences, and it transmits this cookie to the user's computer. The user's Web browser, if cookie-savvy, receives the cookie and stores it in a special file called a cookie list. This happens without any notification or user consent. As a result, personal information (in this case the user's category preferences) is formatted by the Web server, transmitted, and saved by the user's computer.

During the second stage, the cookie is clandestinely and automatically transferred from the user's machine to a Web server. Whenever a user directs her Web browser to display a certain Web page from the server, the browser will, without the user's knowledge, transmit the cookie containing personal information to the Web server.
Just something to toss around...
 

Mavin1

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Jun 19, 2009
Location
Arizona
Id like to here or see on regular basis a [owner player] winner ss and rants if they loose
of course it would be suspect but if there were a few owners /managers
that played and reported on there game play it might get interesting



Interesting thought here Rockycatt, do casinos management use there own product and if so do they have the same results as the rest of the players?
I don't recall any rep or whomever stating they play at their casinos. This would make an interesting thread to say the least if they contributed their own unbiased experiences.
 
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