How Can Anyone Play At SlotLand???

LOL. Janet pops in AGAIN, so AGAIN to click on her link, and AGAIN I find the casino she's backing sitting on her homepage.

Usual massive yawn, Janet. Do you have any opinions to offer other than when one of your money-spinning affiliates is under fire?

I'll do the sums for you, assuming an average $40,000 jackpot. A "random" JOB royal contributes 2% to the payback. 40K is five times greater (20,000 coins), equating to 10%. 95 -10 = 85. The jackpotless JOB game returns 85%.

The payout on SJ is lower than 90%. 90% would be approximately for a fair game, no jackpot and no fiddling to ensure the casino percent. I'll take a stab at 85% but I can't be bothered to try and work it.
 
Let's look at a more graphic example for Slotland "Jacks Or Better". I just ran all this through Winpoker, so it's bang on:

Standard JOB pays 99.5%. Slotland JOB, including "jackpot", pays 95%.

Assuming a 40K jackpot, the royal returns a little under 13% (more than five times because you shoot for the royal much more). A random game would return 109%.

So, we need to hack off about 14%. You could fiddle on for an eternity tweaking the figures, but there's a very neat option here: if you REMOVE the payout on flushes and full houses completely, ie. you turn JOB 6/9 into JOB 0/0, factoring in the 5X royal you have 96%.

So effectively, playing Slotland JOB is the same as sitting down to a real VP game with the royal jackpot increased five times, but compensated for by REMOVING the payout on flushes and full houses - Literally JOB 0/0!

Think about that for a bit. What a sickening scenario. What a con job.

Would any affs care to comment?
 
Slotland's response

Dear Readers,

Thank you for all your posts. I would like to reply to some of your comments. I apologize if I won't respond all of them because I have a real mess in them. Please do not hesitate to repeat your questions if you think that I could make it more clear.

So, generally - I found following themes you were discussing here:

1. murder1: Slotland is rip off...
Murder1 - it's difficult to tell you that we don't rip off our customers from the position of Slotland's representative. You feel being "rip off" because you spent some money at Slotland and haven't won the winning you probably expected.

Yes, somebody has to loose (payback between 80 - 90%) so someone else could won (over 100%). Therefore it is natural, that every casino have happy players and unhappy players. I regret that you haven't respond to my request to provide me with your Slotland identity so I could review your gaming account and provide you with some extra bonus so you could try your luck second time, for free - on our costs. You prefer to stay anonymous and accuse us from ripping you off just because you didn't win what you expected. It's your right but I hope that the readers here understand, that we haven't stolen your credit card, we haven't charged you without your knowledge = we are not rip-off casino! There should be a difference between casinos that don't give a chance to the players, don't communicate with them and casinos, that fairly offers some special bonus upon claiming 'bad luck' and doing the best to make the player finally happy and satisfied.

1. Our games: old design ?
I don't think that the design of our games can be called as 'archaic'. Or have you seen such slots somewhere else 10 or more years ago? Nope. Slotland games have a unique design - we used only the fantasy when designing them.
There is a group of people that prefer the 'real-look' games similar they can find in land based casinos and a group of people that enjoy the difference that we offer. I think that nobody can say what is better and what is worst.
Everyone has a different appettite and we simply serve to people that like something else than 90% of other online casinos offers.

Website is made as simple as possible. We do not like abusing marketing tools such many pop-ups, etc. All necessary information (clear bonus policy, detailed games instructions) are included in as transparent and simple manner as possible. If anybody has any question - our customer support respond personally within few minutes. There is no reason for us to mislead or confuse our customers with many 'marketing bullshit words' about nothing as we prefer the staight and fair communication with our players.

...I am sorry, I have to go now to manage something out of the office. I will be back on Monday to finish my letter and to respond to your new inquiries. Thank you for your patience.

Have a nice weekend and let's continue in our 'talk' on Monday.

Sincerely,
Hannah
Slotland Marketing Department
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Slotland have great CS,and need too as the games do suck deposited $80 and played JOB and balance was zero in around $250 :(
 
caruso said:
LOL. Janet pops in AGAIN, so AGAIN to click on her link, and AGAIN I find the casino she's backing sitting on her homepage.

Usual massive yawn, Janet. Do you have any opinions to offer other than when one of your money-spinning affiliates is under fire?

I'll do the sums for you, assuming an average $40,000 jackpot. A "random" JOB royal contributes 2% to the payback. 40K is five times greater (20,000 coins), equating to 10%. 95 -10 = 85. The jackpotless JOB game returns 85%.

The payout on SJ is lower than 90%. 90% would be approximately for a fair game, no jackpot and no fiddling to ensure the casino percent. I'll take a stab at 85% but I can't be bothered to try and work it.

I added them just to give you something to use against me, Caruso, darling. ;)
 
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caruso said:
LOL. Janet pops in AGAIN, so AGAIN to click on her link, and AGAIN I find the casino she's backing sitting on her homepage.

Usual massive yawn, Janet. Do you have any opinions to offer other than when one of your money-spinning affiliates is under fire?
Let's chill on the webmaster bashing. Rowmare was making a legitimate comment - to imply that she is merely popping in to attract attention to her signature link is a bit out of line IMO. (Linking to your homepage/portal/girlfriend's butt is permisible if not encouraged in the sigs. BTW).

Rowmare has had plenty of worthy opinions in this forum - and they are not all related to affiliate issues.

Thanks.
 
It would be pretty odd for Rowmare to be defending a casino she doesn't think good enough to be on her page.

Caruso, while you think quite clearly and usually have my agreement on many casino related matters, you sure are not very informed when it comes to portals and how they work. And you don't seem to pick up any information on the topic. You just like to bash.

Again, as far as Slotland software - if you don't like HTML then you don't.

But all these players who are loyal to Slotland aren't wrong - the slots are totally unique and have some really fun and unusual features.

I used webtv users as an example because someone drug my page up - but the players are not limited to webtv by a long shot.

Personally I am still hooked on Booster, but each of the completely unique slots has it's own following.
 
Caruso,
I really enjoy your posts. While I tend not to understand the mathematical portions, you seem to still make the point for the random English major.
I'm intensely curious about two things:

1. what profession you're in
2. why you play at or enjoy online gaming (as you make such convincing arguments against it.

Also, a thank you for caring enough to do what must seem to you like beating your head against the wall repeatedly. It takes the entire spectrum of points of view on this site to fully discuss issues and I appreciate each one of them, including your decidedly un-touchy-feely style posts :)

The touchiest, feeliest member here, I fear,
Summertime
 
Well I learned something new about Slotland from this thread. When I played there about a year or so ago, I tried pretty much all the games, but mainly played what I thought were video poker games. Apparently, from what's been quoted here that I never noticed in the fine print, these are actually slot machines designed to look and feel like video poker machines, but are NOT based on pure random numbers, but weighted random numbers, aka a slot machine. This should be made much more obvious.

I think its VERY misleading to have these things look and feel and play like a standard video poker machine, when it really is a fancy slot. There should be something clearly posted on the game that tells the player that this game is not a purely random game as video poker should be, otherwise they will play as I did, thinking it was video poker and not a video poker slot machine.
 
Slotland is a RIPOFF. POINT BLANK!!!

JPM how was your trip to the "REAL CASINO?"
 
murder1 said:
JPM how was your trip to the "REAL CASINO?"

Good thanks! Very relaxing too. Played in a holdem tourney and placed about 1/2 way up in the money. Not too shabby! :D
 
dominique said:
It would be pretty odd for Rowmare to be defending a casino she doesn't think good enough to be on her page. Caruso...you sure are not very informed when it comes to portals and how they work. And you don't seem to pick up any information on the topic. You just like to bash.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is, portal sees good money spinner attacked and doesn't want that situation jeopardized. Since the exact same thing happened in that VPL thread, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my first instincts. No comments on the valid objections raised, just "stop pissing in the wind." LOL. I believe I called it right.

Regarding your points about HTML users: OK, that's something I wouldn't have thought of. However, I think the "$20 a week" old folk should be encouraged to either 1) quit, because they clearly can't afford it, or 2) save up for a couple of weeks and buy a second-hand computer, so they can play better games. I think that'd be more responsible, no?

In response to why I'm interested in the OC biz given my frequently negative stance: I'm negative when I see deceipt practised, or when I believe I see it - and this is a business in which deceipt is practised on a daily basis. Nonetheless, gambling remains very interesting to me, ever since I bought a book a few years ago telling me I could win at blackjack by increasing my bets on a hot streak. :)
 
I'm negative when I see deceipt practised, or when I believe I see it - and this is a business in which deceipt is practised on a daily basis

Definitely agreed on that one.

The fellow has $20 a month, not a week, and it makes him happy and brings him excitement to do what he does. Like I said, beats the lottery. By the time he saves $20 a month to buy a new computer he may have died. We have become friends. I watch out for him.

About portals

New webmasters are faced with fraud of huge proportions. There are places selling bulk traffic, 100,000 visitors for $300. Right, it's a computer someplace generating clicks. No visitors exist. No one has ever seen these popunders anyplace, and by the volume sold, they should be under every other site of the internet! It is plain fraud. Same thing with the cheap Pay per Click search engines. They actually hire people to click - there is a large work force in India that is being paid to sit there all day and click on ads. Voila, they haver logs, proof that the clicks are honest. Even some prominent and purportedly "for the benefit of webmasters" created communities sell this stuff to newbie webmasters. It's a disgrace.

So now you have a handful of determined webmasters surviving all that. Every casino group will tell you that a handful of webmasters generate 80% of the money. All the rest barely pay themselves for their labor. There are a few "in-betweens". Thanks to some more information about fraud being publicly dispensed, more are making it lately and less are losing their savings.

Out of these, actually about half make an honest attempt to serve the player. They will find a type of player they can benefit and concentrate on that.

Now look at the current development. With the political situation in the US, many of the reasonably profitable sites are being sold. Quietly. Who is buying them? Huh? Take a wild guess.

Casinos, and not your favorites either. They buy them, including the affiliate accounts. They change the payment method and after that the represented casinos never even know that a competitor is now their affiliate. Of course you can look at these sites and see them slowly morph into sites that concentrate on the group that owns then, a few other casinos are carried to make them look legit.

With that trend, how do you think players will fare? Now the owners have a real vested interest!

For me, I could care less if any of the casinos I carry are declared rogue - for every casino I kick out I have ten standing in line waiting to get it. Old fashioned portals have an interest in happy players - they make return customers. Plain old business sense.

The new portal system has no such interest. If you keep attacking decent portal owners, you may just end up with nothing but scum.
 
Well, against my better judgement I will defend myself against Caruso's allegations that I am only defending a cash cow.

I have had Slotland on my site for months. My total income from Slotland to this day: $19.00. (Not a very good "Money Spinner", Caruso) Apparently Slotland appeals to a rather small market.

If money was the criteria I used to decide which casinos to promote, Slotland would be long gone by now, and I'd have banners for Windowscasino and their type up (I hear they bring in very good money).

Why do I keep Slotland's ads up if they aren't making me money? Because it's my responsibility to offer readers a variety of platforms, and Slotland has an unblemished reputation in the online gaming industry. I know you'll find this hard to believe, Caruso, but I honestly care about the people who click on casinogeek's links. Gosh darn-it, i'm just a good person.

I agree its important to look at things from both sides, however personal attacks seldom have a positive outcome.

Also, it's a huge leap to take what I said (I pointed out that progressives have a lower payback percentage than regular slots), to make a case that I was defending any particular casino. It was a neutral statement.

The only reason I made a post at all in this thread is I found it objectionable that Donimique was accused of having "rogue-like" qualities. That's absurd, and I am tired of how Caruso makes personal attacks. He loves to throw accusations around irresponsibly.

Caruso, there are thousands of Rogue portals around. Don't you think your time would be better spent to attack the owners of those portals, and leave the "good guys" alone?

If you are truly interested in improving the online gaming industry, go after the ones who have no integrity and help casinos rip players off and support the rest of us.
 
Don't worry about caruso, he is genetically programmed to bash everything in sight and throw negativity around whenever he can. He cannot help it since he was born that way. None of you should take anything he said personally. :)
 
Well I like the way Caruso spices up things around here. WOL is dead since his departure (and a few others). I always look forward to his posts and Bethug's. I can always count on a laugh and well spelled words!
 
Fair enough, Janet. If you're up a grand total of $19 I can only retract the cash-cow accusations. That being the case, I haven't the remotest, foggiest idea why you carry them. The games are ROTTEN - not just because they offer 95% slots (everyone does) but because they offer NOTHING else. Jeez, you'd think they could maybe stretch to a blackjack game, dreadful rules so they wouldn't panic too much but at least FIVE times better than the current one, or maybe a real JOB game - not 9/6, heaven forbid they go full pay, maybe 8/5. "Spacejacks" and "slot JOB" are just ripoffs.

Arguments about HTML customers and clean records are all well and good, but these are not much in the face of the facts of the game payouts.

Dominique's comments about the portal biz are noted with interest - I wasn't aware of much of that.
 
Caruso, a lot of us carry certain casinos because they are good, honest places with excellent service and unique features. If they are also money makers, then that is even better of course.

An ice cream parlor doesn't just carry the bestseller either - or you'd be looking at chocolate, vanilla and strawberry and that's it. They carry a lot of flavors, and some sell so badly they have to be replaced with fresh periodically and are a loss. But they make the parlor attractive. So they make good business sense, profitable or not.

Not every affiliate is going to make money with every casino they carry, there are other considerations too.

Also, I have said it a lot of times and I'll say it again, not every player is interested in playing bonuses for advantage. The majority of players just want entertainment for their money, play well enough not to blow their money too fast, play unfettered, and to be able to cash out when they win.

There are a lot of decent casinos, just as there are a lot of lousy ones. As an affiliate, you can often recognize the good ones by the loyalty their players show.

Slotland is one of those, even if Caruso doesn't like it. It is a good, honest casino with good service and unique games. Slotland has been around for a long time, and it will continue to be so. And they are called Slotland, not Blackjackland. Unique slots is what they do, and they do it well.
 
Dominique's comments about the portal biz are noted with interest - I wasn't aware of much of that.

In the middle of this she has forgotten to talk about the problem of spyware, where some online casinos are directly stealing customers from their competitors, affiliates stealing online casinos, online casinos stealing affiliates and finally affiliates stealing other affiliate competitors.
 
Again, no great issues with Dominique's post, but here...

Also, I have said it a lot of times and I'll say it again, not every player is interested in playing bonuses for advantage. The majority of players just want entertainment for their money, play well enough not to blow their money too fast, play unfettered, and to be able to cash out when they win.

This thread (which has taken its fair share of derailments) nor any of my comments herein relate to bonuses. If they did I wouldn't be complaining, since the SL bonus structure is very fair, even with crap games. My comments relate to nothing but the GAMES PAYOUT, as was the original intention of the thread. And as such I have to take issue with "The majority of players just want entertainment for their money, play well enough not to blow their money too fast..." - because this is PRECISELY what DOESN'T happen on crap (OK OK, unique but crap) games. The greater the house edge, the shorter your deposit lasts. This is why gamblers should be encouraged to play GOOD games and get value for their deposits.
 
Now, I don't know what the objective of your posts is, but my selection of casinos has the objective to give players a good selection of casinos that will have decent service, casinos that pay out without problems, casinos that have games that have never been proven to be dishonest, casinos that I have enough leverage over to negotiate for my players should the need arise, casinos that have attractive features and games and casinos that have the least complicated wagering requrements I can find.

And in order to keep within these lines I visit The Meisters board here to keep my ears to the ground, as well as other player and affiliate boards. I even spend a goodly amount of time talking patiently to people who just delight in taking potshots at me and have done so in some unreasonable amount in the past. (yes, I am talking about you Caruso).

You have not given me any reason not to send people to Slotland - everything is above board and as it should be. Slotland qualifies for all my criteria. It stays.
 

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