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Honest sites?

Discussion in 'Bingo!' started by PookiePoodle, Nov 30, 2007.

    Nov 30, 2007
  1. PookiePoodle

    PookiePoodle Dormant account

    Occupation:
    lady of leisure
    Location:
    Canada
    I have been involved in the bingo world for quite some time now. A select few will remember me from forums now defunct, as well as forums that are still kicking.
    You have to be your own watchdog with bingo sites. If you deposit at a site 2 times and never win a game, run! After 2 deposits you may not cash out, but you should have a win if not a few. That is one tried and true rule of thumb I have always used.
    Do you get responce from management? Also a rule to follow. When contacting support you must be getting a responce within 2 business days, 3 for a smaller operator at most.
    There will aways be someone who wins what seems a lot of times. I have found with sites meeting my other standards, that this is the norm. Sometimes you just get lucky or you are spending way too much by maxing out and in the end not really winning.
    Don't air your complaints for a site in the chat room, EVER! If you get banned, I feel no sympathy. I have never been banned from any chat. Forward your complaints to support or the hall manager. See rule of thumb above about responce.
    Ask people you trust about bingo sites. If you don't know anyone personally who plays bingo, read forums like this. Check into the ones responding to you on any forum. Do they have a lot of complaints they never come back and let you know if it is resolved? If so you may want to take their advice without a grain of salt. Have they previously been involved in long disputes never settled? There are people who post on forums who may not be trustworthy. It may take a lot of reading but worth your time if it saves you money.
    Go with a portal that has been around for some time that does help the people they send to a site. Dominique and Bingo T are 2 I know of that have done this service.
    If you think a poster here or anywhere is trustworthy, and has played honestly, by all means ask their advice, but in the end trust yourself. Determine your expectations and your own rules of thumb before you deposit. Also any good site does not have more than 1x playthough on bingo, but look out for casino games as they are generally 12x.
    If slots or cards are your thing, play them at a casino not a bingo hall.
    Hope this is useful information for anyone in search of a good play.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Nov 30, 2007
  3. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I rarely play bingo and even when I did it was from free money. Never cashed out even when I won an odd thirty of forty bux or so. Actually, I agree with most of your advice except the one concerning complaints in the chat room. That's where you share your grievances with other players. If the operators are so unaccomodating and get people banned for complaining, then it is worthwhile pondering whether you should actually continue playing at the site in question.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Nov 30, 2007
  5. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    I do nothing productive
    Location:
    Hell on Earth
    I agree, if they bann you because you complained in a chat room and your not being a rude vulgar ass...

    Then you really should find somewhere else to play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Nov 30, 2007
  7. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    Thank You My PookiePoodle.
    Great post.
    When it comes to chat in a game I say never talk your dirty Laundry this is why they have Email addresses to the Bingo Manager and so on.
    And this goes with all the chat going on.No one needs to see this crap.
    Or if you join a place from an affiliate ask he/she for some help.And too find one you know you can trust also that would take part.
    At times if I see people talking trash at places I leave No one has to see a Jerry Springer chat session going on.
    People go play to relax & to have fun.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Nov 30, 2007
  9. Sassy1

    Sassy1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    private
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for the good advice PookiePoodle! It is so hard to know where to play and who to trust in this recent climate, including some watchdog sites. The comments here seem honest and rational, but I've recently been viewing a site that makes rash decisions without doing enough research and posting lists of suspected house players with no evidence and upsetting those people on the lists. These lists even hold comments about the personality of some of the suspected house players like, "house player and she's stuck on herself." Some of that stuff is just uncalled for and very unprofessional. I'll be coming here for advice from now on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Nov 30, 2007
  11. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    Sassy1 can you tell all the readers here where you have found your findings?
    I think all the Bingo Players Of The World would like to know.
    I hate to put you on the spot.I just think people should know.
    Thank You
     
  12. Nov 30, 2007
  13. Sassy1

    Sassy1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    private
    Location:
    USA
    I'm going to assume that since you are a long-timer here, you know it is acceptable to respond? If it wasn't appropriate for me to respond, I won't take offense to my answer being edited out. It's the Bingo Player's Union.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Nov 30, 2007
  15. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    I thank you and I feel Byran should not edit it out.
    The people that play online bingo should know.
    They don't like me at all but they still use My quotes and Dom's in some threads.
    I learned to just leave them alone because life is to short.
     
  16. Nov 30, 2007
  17. NAVYMANS-MOM

    NAVYMANS-MOM Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computer Tech Support
    Location:
    Southwest Virginia
    Think of bingo as a business

    There are two sides to every business.....the owner and the customers.

    First....the owner of a business ALSO has to deal with owners of OTHER businesses in order to survive, such as paper suppliers, utility companies, parts stores, etc. So that owner is ALSO a CUSTOMER to somebody else.

    Second....that owner has to COMPETE with other owners in the SAME business in order to get customers and make a profit, so he has to be fair and reasonably priced and diplomatic in dealing with his customers in order to keep them from going to his competitors. If he took orders from those customers and their payments, but then never delivered the goods or treated his customers as if THEY were the thieves, that owner would not only be out of business, but in jail somewhere charged with fraud and theft.

    Bingo sites may not be regulated but they still have to run the risk of losing their one and only database of paying customers or they are out of business because their customers go to their competition.

    NOW.....think of yourself as an OWNER, because you really ARE.

    You risk your own capital in order to make more....just like a business does. Every person sitting 'next to you' in a bingo hall is your COMPETITOR vying for the same capital you are. You try to spend as little as possible and still make a profit. THAT'S a business, people....and ALL businesses are GAMBLING every day, just like you.

    It doesn't matter if you and your competitors 'go to dinner' socially....YOU ARE STILL COMPETING FOR THE SAME PRIZE...and therefore, that competitor can only be trusted so far. After all, there's MONEY involved and both of you want it in your own pocket. Coming in first ALWAYS is better than losing your capital every time to your competitors or you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place. Only a small handful of people in the world get into business in order to make friends....they do it to make MONEY. Make sure you never take your eye off that ball.

    Now....if you suspect that SOME of your competitors have some type of 'edge' and they consistently get the prize you covet with a 'bone' being tossed in your direction every so often to keep you investing your capital, do you keep with this same business owner or do you hunt for a new one that will be more fair to its customers? Do you REALLY stay with a business that you KNOW will keep giving most of its business to your competitors just because you THINK you have developed a type of social friendliness with those competitors? After all, YOU are in business also and are risking all your capital....for a competitor's 'friendship'?????

    This is YOUR business at risk......isn't it worth protecting and nurturing by moving on to a better environment for it? Wouldn't it be prudent of you as the OWNER of your business to find another business owner who treats ALL of its customers equally and gives you a level playing field to compete against?

    Since online bingo sites aren't listed with a local Better Business Bureau, you have no way to check on a site ahead of time to know if they are out and out crooks, a little bit shady with only a 'few' complaints, or if they have gone out of their way to build a great reputation.

    The ONLY way is to do a couple of things....

    1. RESEARCH the site by doing a google search for complaints against them....and find out as much as you can about the owners and the sister sites they have so you don't make the mistake of signing up at the sisters and jeopardize your account by creating multiple accounts without intending to do so.

    2. Join a site, open chat, bet the smallest amount you are able to in order to get into a game (normally 3 cards) and watch a few things, such as a pattern of frequent winners names, how many are purchasing cards (there is usually a list of players that is separate from the list of chatters, and how large the per game pots are, in addition to the jackpot amount that normally is progressive and gets larger per game until it's hit. The number of players will include Out Of Chat and Pre-buyers so that tells you how many you are actually competing against. The number of chatters doesn't mean much since many sites will combine the chat rooms into one huge room if they have other rooms playing at the same time for different per game amounts.

    3. Watch the chat conversations....you'll learn quickly if there is a clique of players and what their 'relationship' is with the Host of the room....other than being welcomed to the room, are you pretty much ignored most of the time, do you have to ask for help two or three times before you are 'noticed' again? Are most of your questions being referred by the Host to put in a trouble ticket or to go to LiveHelp or to send an email to some management person instead of the Host actually being knowledgeable enough to help you and not make you trip all over the site trying to get answers to something she/he should already know the answer to? NEVER be afraid to ask a question....it's YOUR money that could be at stake, not THEIRS, and you deserve a correct answer.

    4. If you are in Live Help, a chatroom, sending a TT, or sending an email, ALWAYS, ALWAYS copy and paste your question AND the answer to a NOTEPAD text file and SAVE it.....believe me, you WILL need it one day when you least expect it. Make sure you have it dated and that you have the NAME of the person who gave you the information so you have ammunition to fight with if you need to. If you can't copy/paste using the mouse and right click, you can still scroll to highlight with the mouse and then press CTRL and C on the keyboard to COPY, then open Notepad and either use Edit/Paste or use CTRL and V to paste it. The KEYBOARD trick ALWAYS works even when a site tries to disable copy/paste using the mouse. I've only found ONE site that was able to script their chat to where you couldn't copy/paste no matter what, BUT if you know how to type, and you can scroll backwards in the chat, you can still retype it into Notepad manually as you scroll....making sure to use the NAMES and then date the text file before you save it. If you still can't figure out how to get the job done, USE A SCREENSHOT of the page with the conversation....press the PRINT SCREEN key on your keyboard, open PAINT, Edit, Paste, and save it as a JPG file.

    5. Last and most important.....GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING ABOUT THE SITE. If something just doesn't ring true or feel right, remember this is YOUR business and capital. Find another site that fits better for you personally....just like a land bingo site, it takes a while to find the one where you feel better about playing at than the first couple of places you tried. Even land bingo sites know how to cheat their paying customers...especially when it comes to pull tabs. Each box is marked ahead of time with where in the box the large payoff tabs are located and unless that box is shuffled in a hopper, the sellers know where to get those winners for friends, shills, or even remove them completely so the house never has to pay out on them. Software online is even easier to manipulate.

    Now do the math:

    This is an example of the way the math works at online bingo sites today and why we need to fight to get the sites to understand why we're so upset with their rules.

    You deposit $50 at XYZ bingo site and go into the quarter room to play:

    You and everybody else in the room buys 25 cards PER GAME...that comes to $6.25 each and there are 40 people in the room buying cards whether they are in chat or not. That comes to $250 total purchase and the game itself has a $50 fixed pot. Instant profit for the bingo site equals $200 PER GAME.

    Now add to that profit, the unrealistic PER DEPOSIT playthrough rule (bingo ONLY remember....no inflated playthrough for casino games which are totally separate at every site). The playthrough rule could be 'only' 3x the deposit, which means you are required to spend at least $150 before you can cash out....or it could also include a 3x the deposit PLUS the deposit bonus you received which means if that bonus was 200% of the deposit, you are now required to wager at least ($50 + $100 X 3) $450 before you can cash out.

    Also, keep in mind that at most sites....once you request a cashout, ALL bonuses are wiped out and erased (whether your cash out is approved or NOT) BUT YOU ARE STILL REQUIRED TO MEET THE PLAYTHROUGH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED ON THEM.

    Also, keep in mind while you are playing.....ALL purchasing of cards comes out of your cash first and not your bonus.

    Also, keep in mind, that most sites will NOT let you cash out if you are playing casino games with bonus money, EVEN IF THEY LET YOU PLAY WITH THAT BONUS MONEY (there are some sites that has software that will stop you from spending bonus money on casino games....there are some that will actually let you play with the bonus money but use that rule as a 'gotcha' if you hit big on the slots and decline your cashout).

    Also, keep in mind that even if you have cash in your account, and you are playing bingo and slots at the same time, your playthrough rules are immediately changed to not be 3X or 4X the bingo anymore....you are now required to meet the CASINO playthrough rules which can be as high as 12X your deposit (PLUS the deposit and/or chat games bonuses).

    And these sites can't understand why knowledgeable players are fighting back to get the rules changed through regulation. Now you know why they are also disabling accounts for members who speak up....they NEED to keep the membership they have completely in the dark and stupid to these rules, people. The more educated we are, the more we pass the word, the worse they look and the broker they will get because we are slowly but surely eating them alive. We are hitting them where they hurt the most....their pockets. Soon, if we keep fighting the fight, all that will be in those pockets is lint and dust.......except for the very few that will finally see the light and make drastic changes that are actually fair to the very players they will desperately need.
     
    4 people like this.
  18. Nov 30, 2007
  19. PookiePoodle

    PookiePoodle Dormant account

    Occupation:
    lady of leisure
    Location:
    Canada
    Sorry Navy, I do not see myself gambling online as being a business. I am a recreational player with every intent of winning. That is why I follow my own rules of judging a site.
    Also, I would never play anywhere that has more than a 1x playthrough on bingo. Been there and quickly determined it was too large an obstacle to my ultimate goal of cashing out. Right now I play at 3 that do not have more than 1x, and I have cashed out from 2 of them several times, the other I just started but I do win just haven't cashed out yet. I rarely touch the side games unless I have decided in advance I will probably not cash it out. Although I will say that I have cashed out playing keno even with the high playthrough.
    If players want to effect change, you have to start by avoiding sites with playthrough higher than 1x on bingo, and telling the support of the site that the playthrough is the reason you are taking a pass on them. In my years of bingo and forums, I have found most complaints for cashout come from the players at high playthrough sites. I also think high playthrough makes it easier for a site to use house players. I am not a house player and never have been one, so I am not an expert on the workings of one.
     
  20. Nov 30, 2007
  21. PookiePoodle

    PookiePoodle Dormant account

    Occupation:
    lady of leisure
    Location:
    Canada
    Just a thought to ponder for ChuChu.
    All bingo sites have chat rules. All of them state they do not want you airing complaints in chat. They want you to contact support and talk with someone who has the ability to find a solution.
    The job of the chat host is to make the room fun for players. They run chat games and they can answer questions about navigating the site etc., but they have no authority to deal with complaints concerning your financials. They can assist you in finding out who is the person to address your problem to. As an example, I once said in chat I was having a problem with a deposit, who do I need to contact. The host posted the link for accounts department for me to click and I easily resolved my problem. As a player, I do not want to see people ranting about how they been done wrong, I am there to enjoy my evening. Often the things they rant on have no bearing on me, such as they have broken a term of use and been found out so they get a friend that still plays there to pitch a bitch in the room because they are banned. Seen it too many times and I don't enjoy it.
    There is a big difference in questions and outright complaining or ranting. That is the reason places like Casinomeister have the PAB section.
     
  22. Dec 1, 2007
  23. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    I do nothing productive
    Location:
    Hell on Earth
    So you don't care to know if the house your playing in is cheating or screwing over people. I think most folks would disagree with you on this, I know I do.

    I want to hear every complaint, I can about any outfit before I deposit my money with them.

    Most people have the ability to decide for themselves if the complaints they hear are just some moron shooting off his or her mouth or if they carry any weight.

    So your saying that the PAB here at Casinomeister is just for complaining and ranting? If so, I strongly disagree with you. The PAB section here is for the resolution of problems, not for ranting.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Dec 1, 2007
  25. PookiePoodle

    PookiePoodle Dormant account

    Occupation:
    lady of leisure
    Location:
    Canada
    I am not saying PAB is for complaining and ranting. What I am saying is that a good site will resolve your problems through support or accounts. If your complaint is valid and they don't resolve it, then you need the help of an arbitrator such as the PAB. No problem is resolved in a chat room. The host does not have the ability to do so. I don't mind if someone says in chat they are having a problem, but I don't want them to fill my evening with it. Forums are a way to ask if others have a problem, or to calmly explain what has happened to you. Usually if you mention in chat you are having an issue, other players will perk up and pay attention to it. They don't need details to make their own determinations.
    The only ones I really take issue with in chat are those that have broken rules or terms and rant because they got caught, or campaign for a buddy that was banned for breaking the terms of use.
     
  26. Dec 1, 2007
  27. Sissy

    Sissy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Arkansas

    I was . Those facts are stated in other threads here and the whole story is at BPU. PM me if you would like a link and I will send it to you.. you can read the whole thing AND the replies to it. I don't consider myself an expert, I can only tell you how it happened with me.

    I played at one site for 3 years.. lost a lot and won some. I enjoyed being with friends there so I emailed the owner and told him I had to quit because I had a gambling problem and couldn't afford to fund anymore. I am used to "holier than thou" vocal judgements, so knock yourself out, if you must. My account was comped on a regular basis. I did not ask for these.. they were just there.

    AT THAT TIME I didn't even think about the fact that I was making it unfair to my friends and fellow paying players that I was stealing from them by gambling on games they could have or should have won because they paid to do it. My mind was too clouded by addiction. No excuse.. just the truth. Cheating in one form or another is still cheating.

    I then decided that the best thing I could do for my friends and fellow players was to stay long enough to have "proof" that houseplayers do exist. Even today I still pay for this. But maybe that is my punishment for doing it in the first place. The one thing I can be proud of is that I do not have to speculate whether house players exist or not. I proved they do.. documentation and all!

    I am not sure about any site and if they do or do not use house players. I certainly do not see anyone willing to pay the price I paid to find out either. I can be proud of the fact that I didn't have to ever open my mouth, but I did. I only know of one other person who had the guts to say something very similar happened to her. That was IBEENTHERE.

    So as far as "house players" are concerned, people can speculate, talk "possibilites", decide maybe there are and maybe there are not. After paying the price for the proof, I KNOW for sure.

    I am one person, not BPU. I stand behind all I do. I work to the best of my ability to be a good watchdog in the bingo industry. I make mistakes. I don't cover them up or ignore them, I admit them, try to make amends and go on to the next project. Some call it "back peddaling", I call it learning from experience.

    I work hard to find facts. I do what I do for the players. I am not an affiliate. I do not stand behind, or recommend ANY site. This is my public apology to anyone who feels I have some sort of personal vendetta against you. I do not. This is all about online bingo for me.

    It is all about doing what I can do to make the online bingo world more understandable to those who choose to play. I agree that refusing to deposit because of a high playthrough is one of the best places to start. I also agree that players should let the site being considered know that in writing.

    Is everyone else ready to make this about watchdogging instead of who did what and where in the forums? There are players out there who need our attention concerning the online bingo sites and have questions that need answered.

    In real life I am a very loving and warm person and compassionate to a fault. In this world I am a "hard assed, spend the time, get the facts and don't back up person". BingoT I am sorry you feel I dislike you. Not true. I don't know "you". Mary I am sorry we have such a personality conflict. Hopefully we can get past that enough to work together for a common cause we both seem to believe in.

    Sassy1, I am sorry you do not like some of my techniques and/or decisions. It may be hard to understand for you, but there is no right or wrong way to get to the bottom of issues. There are things I do alone, such as being a member here. There are things I do as a member of BPU staff that are my decision alone. There are things I agree to that I have been outvoted on. I do not own that forum.. I am only a member. Final decisions are NOT MINE. The only thing that are mine are words and opinions and I take full responsibility for those wherever you may see them.

    Thanks NAVYMANSMOM for explaining your version of online bingo as a business. I appreciate your time and efforts to help the watchdog movement.

    I never have claimed to be perfect. But I do claim my right to be a watchdog and do the best I can do!
     
  28. Dec 3, 2007
  29. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    HI PP,

    None of the sites that offer live chat ie bingo, poker rooms or casinos with multi-player tables like to hear complaints lodged against them in public. However, there will be instances where members need to share experiences on something they feel that the sites have done unsatisfactorily but have not gone to the stage of lodging an official complaint. A player may have problems logging in but he may just feel that it is his own computer but when he shares this with other players and they all agree to this then it will reveal a problem which the site needs to solve and gladly so for obvious reasons.

    Airing out grievances is one thing. Bashing the casino/poker room is another especially when stating that they owe you money or are unresponsive. As long as players voice out their opinions calmly and rationally there is no reason for site operators to dislike them. After all, this is also a field where customer service is very important and the best way is to listen to the customers despite what avenue they choose. If they can solve them satisfactorily in public, it would be even better publicity for them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Dec 3, 2007
  31. PookiePoodle

    PookiePoodle Dormant account

    Occupation:
    lady of leisure
    Location:
    Canada
    ChuChu, you are right! This is just what I would like to see happen in bingo chat rooms. Calm, rational explanations and a reasonable request for help. That would benefit both site and player.
    Unfortunately, the ones we are hearing from the most are the ones who go into chat demanding things from a busy host, and while they have to scramble to keep up with all the other players and chat games, try to find help. It is the player who gives her no time to look for a solution or help link that is the problem. I love a chat that is kept reasonable, and I have found two that are. It is possible, we just have to hope more players will see the ultimate benefits to it.

    Sissy, this is not personal against you. We did work together before and there is no reason we cannot continue to work for the same things in peace. I think there are more than a few "house players" that respond in forums. They are just not honest about it, and do continue to try and con the average player. I also think the average player is beginning to spot the con more easily and are making better decisions. We are here to help by sharing our wisdoms that we have gathered as long time watchers of bingo.
     
    1 person likes this.

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