Casino Complaint HofmannEs VS Fortune Room Casino

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
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Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
I wouldn't begrudge a casino for confiscating deposits but it would have to be under very specific circumstances. Play style should not be a factor. Only under conditions such as intentional multi accounting or the use of fake identification should the practice be considered. Weeding out these serial fraudsters costs the casino time and money and losing their deposits as well as their "winnings" might act as a deterrent for some.

Players that open a single account with their own identification should never have their deposits confiscated on the basis of how they play bonuses. Casinos should be creating bonus systems that players can safely play however they like. Many casinos do it. There's no reason they all can't.

I opened a second account at a casino once a few years back. I never took a bonus at either one of them and I obviously wasn't trying to hide it. I used the same information for both casinos. I just forgot I had a dormant account from a few years before that. When I was told I had two accounts I contacted a rep through live chat and the rep just asked me which one I wanted to keep open. I said "I don't know. Which one is going to win more?" :p
 

Rokker85

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Location
Ostrava
My story.

I give you my example how this casino treated me: I played there at Platinum Play, Vegas Palms and Fortune Room.I won. They did not pay. Account locked after I sent my documents.Nothing was explained to me. Also my deposits (300 eu) confiscated and also my winnings (700eu). I checked my documents again. And I see that the bank made a mistake in my address on the bill. My address is-H+++++++a 4970, and the bank only printed 497. I don't know how this could happen but this happened. Should I pay for my bank mistake 1000 eunow? Am I a fraudster now??? I can send another bill of mine but the casino is not replying. Should I try a Pitch a Bitch?
 

fortunelounge

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
South Africa
I give you my example how this casino treated me: I played there at Platinum Play, Vegas Palms and Fortune Room.I won. They did not pay. Account locked after I sent my documents.Nothing was explained to me. Also my deposits (300 eu) confiscated and also my winnings (700eu). I checked my documents again. And I see that the bank made a mistake in my address on the bill. My address is-H+++++++a 4970, and the bank only printed 497. I don't know how this could happen but this happened. Should I pay for my bank mistake 1000 eunow? Am I a fraudster now??? I can send another bill of mine but the casino is not replying. Should I try a Pitch a Bitch?

Hi Rokker 85

I am just awaiting feedback from our Player Security department and will then reply to your PM.

It is highly unlikely that your account would have been locked only on the basis of a mistake on your bank statement.

Regards

Wim
 

Rokker85

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Location
Ostrava
Hi Rokker 85

I am just awaiting feedback from our Player Security department and will then reply to your PM.

It is highly unlikely that your account would have been locked only on the basis of a mistake on your bank statement.

Regards

Wim


I will wait for your reply. Thank you!
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I've been in touch with Wim regarding the OP and his issue. Turns out there is good reason to believe this is a fraud case which may explain why HofmannEs hasn't gone the PAB route here. In other words it looks like this is a bogus complaint and HofmannEs is abusing his forum access in order to pressure the casino. That violates Posting Rules 1.10, 1.11 and 1.17.

Given the circumstances I am giving him the boot. If he wants to PAB then he can email me at [email protected], I'll re-open his account and we'll proceed. If not, his choice, but his forum account stays closed.
 
Last edited:

dunover

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the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
I give you my example how this casino treated me: I played there at Platinum Play, Vegas Palms and Fortune Room.I won. They did not pay. Account locked after I sent my documents.Nothing was explained to me. Also my deposits (300 eu) confiscated and also my winnings (700eu). I checked my documents again. And I see that the bank made a mistake in my address on the bill. My address is-H+++++++a 4970, and the bank only printed 497. I don't know how this could happen but this happened. Should I pay for my bank mistake 1000 eunow? Am I a fraudster now??? I can send another bill of mine but the casino is not replying. Should I try a Pitch a Bitch?

Which begs the question - if you played at PP and they didn't pay, then played at Vegas Palms and they didn't pay, why the **** did you then go and join Fortune room??? This suggests you joined and took bonus in multiple accounts at the same time. Something is setting off my BS-Detector.
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Location
UA
Which begs the question - if you played at PP and they didn't pay, then played at Vegas Palms and they didn't pay, why the **** did you then go and join Fortune room??? This suggests you joined and took bonus in multiple accounts at the same time. Something is setting off my BS-Detector.

What's wrong with claiming multiple bonuses at different casinos of the same group? If it is not prohibited by casinos' terms- then it is allowed.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Which begs the question - if you played at PP and they didn't pay, then played at Vegas Palms and they didn't pay, why the **** did you then go and join Fortune room??? This suggests you joined and took bonus in multiple accounts at the same time. Something is setting off my BS-Detector.

It also seems a close carbon copy of the OP's complaint.

Things can happen this fast if players are joining one casino after another very quickly. This is "old school" bonus whoring, and was based on the idea that if you hit all xx casinos in a group over a short period of time (preferably the weekend), the winning accounts would be paid before the casino noticed the bigger picture. The method was mentioned back in 2004 and 2005 on a couple of Blackjack fora, back in the days where a steady grind at $1 a hand would render almost every bonus +EV.

Another member over at BB says that FL have "confiscated a truck load of money" from him, but it hasn't deterred him as what he has gotten away with is still +EV. It would appear therefore that the hardcore fraudsters have already factored in the confiscation of deposits, and despite an aggressive stance, FL still seems a high value target.

I suspect the above case is a player that hits one after the other, but stops on the first win, hoping that the losing accounts don't get routinely audited. It seems that losing accounts DO now get audited, and thus this method is no longer effective.

Not only can Nifty now say "Here we go", but he can say it twice. It is starting to look like FL have caught up with the latest wheeze, and there may be a few more complaints, and probably some bile over at BB over the coming week.
 

dunover

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What's wrong with claiming multiple bonuses at different casinos of the same group? If it is not prohibited by casinos' terms- then it is allowed.

If you check their terms it is not. I know VPL had a rule when I played there that you could have a bonus at more than 1 of their sites, but couldn't open more than one account a week. And the issue still remains, WHY did a player open account after account when he claims he won at each and they didn't pay?
:confused::confused:
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Location
UA
It also seems a close carbon copy of the OP's complaint.

Things can happen this fast if players are joining one casino after another very quickly. This is "old school" bonus whoring, and was based on the idea that if you hit all xx casinos in a group over a short period of time (preferably the weekend), the winning accounts would be paid before the casino noticed the bigger picture. The method was mentioned back in 2004 and 2005 on a couple of Blackjack fora, back in the days where a steady grind at $1 a hand would render almost every bonus +EV.

Another member over at BB says that FL have "confiscated a truck load of money" from him, but it hasn't deterred him as what he has gotten away with is still +EV. It would appear therefore that the hardcore fraudsters have already factored in the confiscation of deposits, and despite an aggressive stance, FL still seems a high value target.

I suspect the above case is a player that hits one after the other, but stops on the first win, hoping that the losing accounts don't get routinely audited. It seems that losing accounts DO now get audited, and thus this method is no longer effective.

Not only can Nifty now say "Here we go", but he can say it twice. It is starting to look like FL have caught up with the latest wheeze, and there may be a few more complaints, and probably some bile over at BB over the coming week.

This is something new: playing different casinos of the same group is now a sure sign of the fraudster? Why not to wait for the representative's reply first?
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
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Location
UA
If you check their terms it is not. I know VPL had a rule when I played there that you could have a bonus at more than 1 of their sites, but couldn't open more than one account a week. And the issue still remains, WHY did a player open account after account when he claims he won at each and they didn't pay?
:confused::confused:

Do you have an idea how long time does it take for the casino to pay these days? One week at least. So why not to open one more account and to play more during this period? What you call "account after account" can be one account opened on Monday, the other one on Thursday and one more on Saturday... It is "very quick" and only fraudster can do it sooo quick...yeah.
 

dunover

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This is something new: playing different casinos of the same group is now a sure sign of the fraudster? Why not to wait for the representative's reply first?

Well on your first point not necessarily a sign of fraud, but it can be if player tries a bonus on each and the accounts are opened very close together as Vinyl says could be a possibility. The OP's complaint DOES suggest the accounts were opened very close together as that explains why he claims he wasn't paid at one after the other; it stands to reason once bitten twice shy if there was a decent gap between each one.

Yes, we can wait for the rep's reply, but FL isn't generally known for conning players and he is probably waiting to see if PAB is actioned - I doubt it will be.
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
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Location
UA
Well on your first point not necessarily a sign of fraud, but it can be if player tries a bonus on each and the accounts are opened very close together as Vinyl says could be a possibility. The OP's complaint DOES suggest the accounts were opened very close together as that explains why he claims he wasn't paid at one after the other; it stands to reason once bitten twice shy if there was a decent gap between each one.

Yes, we can wait for the rep's reply, but FL isn't generally known for conning players and he is probably waiting to see if PAB is actioned - I doubt it will be.

Actually you DON'T KNOW if FL are conning players or not. All you know is that Maxd approves all FL's actions. Can we say that FL never lies because of that? Yes, only if we can be 100% sure that Maxd never lies. Did not mean to say something against Maxd personally- but is there a person on this planet of whom we can 100% sure say- he NEVER (under no circumstances) lies?
The situation is kinda absurd. We must believe FL because we must believe Maxd because we must believe Casinomeister. All this has nothing to do with KNOWLEDGE.
 

bsilva028

Banned : multi-account fraudster
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portugal
This is something new: playing different casinos of the same group is now a sure sign of the fraudster? Why not to wait for the representative's reply first?


VPL: you can claim only 1 signup bonus in all the group, unless specificaly invited
32Red: Same as VPL
FL: you can claim 1 SUB in each of their casinos, however, you can´t claim more than 2 SUB per week.

they are written in T&C´s.

that does not means that is sign of fraud, but its sign of "broken rules"
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
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Location
UA
VPL: you can claim only 1 signup bonus in all the group, unless specificaly invited
32Red: Same as VPL
FL: you can claim 1 SUB in each of their casinos, however, you can´t claim more than 2 SUB per week.

they are written in T&C´s.

that does not means that is sign of fraud, but its sign of "broken rules"

Wrong:

33.The Fortune Lounge group of casinos reserves the right to limit the number of new player sign-up bonuses that may be taken up across the casino brands within the group to two per customer per seven-day period so that no more than two new player sign-up offers may be taken up within a seven-day period.

It says the casino itself MAY limit the number of bonuses. If they did not limit it- then they allowed it. Nothing was broken.
 

bsilva028

Banned : multi-account fraudster
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Wrong:

33.The Fortune Lounge group of casinos reserves the right to limit the number of new player sign-up bonuses that may be taken up across the casino brands within the group to two per customer per seven-day period so that no more than two new player sign-up offers may be taken up within a seven-day period.

It says the casino itself MAY limit the number of bonuses. If they did not limit it- then they allowed it. Nothing was broken.

yes, but they can do


like you posted before "What's wrong with claiming multiple bonuses at different casinos of the same group? If it is not prohibited by casinos' terms- then it is allowed."

it´s prohibited by some groups terms, the posted here was only examples, but actually are more groups applying that rule
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
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Location
UA
yes, but they can do


like you posted before "What's wrong with claiming multiple bonuses at different casinos of the same group? If it is not prohibited by casinos' terms- then it is allowed."

it´s prohibited by some groups terms, the posted here was only examples, but actually are more groups applying that rule

I don't think that was the reason to confiscate 300 euro of player's own deposits. Or it was?
 

bsilva028

Banned : multi-account fraudster
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I don't think that was the reason to confiscate 300 euro of player's own deposits. Or it was?

i also don´t think that can be used to confiscate deposites
winnings in some cases yes, deposites no.

in any case, i don´t agree any casino to confiscate deposites, winnings confiscated and deposites returns to player yes, in case of broken rules, multiple accounts etc...

and is 100% sure that they confiscated player´s own deposites only because of that?
 

mimi26

Meister Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Location
uk
I don't like the idea of casinos confiscating deposits, especially from people who have been 'accused' of account fraud and have no means of redressing this. Not all gamblers are members of forums. There have been a few grumbles about this casino group and I wont ever play there. I would have loved to have known the Ops full story, I do hope he/she decides to PAB as Max has made this avenue still open to him/her
 

bsilva028

Banned : multi-account fraudster
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
Joined
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I don't like the idea of casinos confiscating deposits, especially from people who have been 'accused' of account fraud and have no means of redressing this. Not all gamblers are members of forums. There have been a few grumbles about this casino group and I wont ever play there. I would have loved to have known the Ops full story, I do hope he/she decides to PAB as Max has made this avenue still open to him/her

i also think that in ANY "irregular" cases, deposites should be returned, winnings confiscated and accounts closed

to be honnest
i have played there
i continue playing

never got 1 problem
the 2 times that i cashed out i was paid, in the usual 48 hours (except weekends)

the only thing that i dont like there is, everytime that i made a withdrawal, i stay at least 2 months without receive any "exclusive deposit bonus"

all the rest, i dont have 1 finger to say bad of them
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
The situation is kinda absurd. We must believe FL because we must believe Maxd because we must believe Casinomeister. All this has nothing to do with KNOWLEDGE.

One thing I know is that you are not interested in the case, you are only interested in throwing your crappy accusations and inuendos around to cause whatever damage you can. For the next 30 days you are cordially invited to do it elsewhere. This is your third and final time for this same infraction on the forums: next time you're history.

.... maybe Bryan would do well to check the OPs IP against former members....

Bryan is at G2E in Vegas so ... maybe later on the IP investigation.
 

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