Hitman = The Man of Mystery.......

dunover

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I have recently mentioned on a couple of threads that MG casinos give you the value of a win on your balance as soon as you press 'spin' and the reels even stop. This is because (although some disagreed with me) you have simply chosen a random value on the server and a video of pseudo reels is then generated from a library of computer graphic videos that corresponds to that value - there can be tens of different videos that can show the same value win by different reels combinations. Some disagreed, pointing me to a page (I forget his name) whereby a maths professor explains 'how slot reels work' as if each reel stops randomly....
This might be the case in mechanical reeled landbased slots (although I doubt it on many of them) and I voiced the opinion from a programming perspective that a videoslot/onlineslot doesn't need to do this; it would be pointless and make thousands of unnecessary lines of code. All you need is video generation relating to the values of the RNG with symbols and their combination awards to produce life-like reels.
I understand there are still some players who believe that reels stop independently of each other :rolleyes: on their favourite games.

Take a look at Hitman if you are a flash or download MG player. Watch reels 1 and 5 spinning. You will see our infamous Hitman, with his unmistakable white background ready to expand, spinning round. Only problem here is that Hitman wild doesn't appear on reels 1 and 5, only 2,3,4,!!!

Lazy videographic programming - his image has been added erroneously to the selection of symbol strips which are flashed by to give the impression of reels. They didn't make the mistake on the green bonus symbols - they only flash by on 3,4,5 as they should.

Stll think the reels are relevant in online slot playing???
 

CraiGDaniel

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You're right, the server selects a win for you and then the slot just creates a win line based on that amount and as you said slots have hundreds of ways to make an exact value given to them an actual visual win.

This thread is probably going to get a bit out of hand as all the others do but give it a little while and the old timers will try and persuade us different because they like to believe it's still the way it was back in the day.

[edit] Oh and another example is zombies, discussed before i believe. When you hit the random wild feature your balance is updated before the light show even begins. Classic example
 

Rhyzz

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The issue of balance updating prior to reels finishing their spin animation is one of integration - if the games are not running via the suppliers platform then the call for balance is made prior to the spin finishing. If it's a good platform, it'll update quickly and update the balance. The outcome is irrespective of what the reels do, surely this is common knowledge for slots players?

As for the reels, I honestly don't know and to be fair, based on the above, it makes no difference what they do. The result is pre-determined based, hence the ability to click 'Stop' on most modern games. Players are getting wiser, operators are becoming more transparent - it's a good thing!
 

dunover

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The issue of balance updating prior to reels finishing their spin animation is one of integration - if the games are not running via the suppliers platform then the call for balance is made prior to the spin finishing. If it's a good platform, it'll update quickly and update the balance. The outcome is irrespective of what the reels do, surely this is common knowledge for slots players?

As for the reels, I honestly don't know and to be fair, based on the above, it makes no difference what they do. The result is pre-determined based, hence the ability to click 'Stop' on most modern games. Players are getting wiser, operators are becoming more transparent - it's a good thing!

Absolutely, and you make a good point about the 'stop' function which I overlooked. It's common knowledge to us maybe, but there are stick-in-the-muds who believe reels matter.

The stop function simply says "I have selected already a 1.5x stake win for this spin, save the waste of bandwidth and time by cutting my video short to the final positions without the pseudo spinning so you can play more games per minute.":oops:
 

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I think some folks are simply not going to change their mind on the 'are the reels real?' question, despite absolutely overwhelming evidence to say that they're not.

I'm prepared to accept that early video slots ran on 'proper' reels, but you only need to look at something like Battlestar Galactica or Elements to conclude there ain't no such thing as a 'reel' behind it all, and that's before you get into the realms of the slots that EVERYONE agrees are 'weighted' such as Tunzamunni and a lot of the MG 5-liners.
 

Balthazar

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Take a look at Hitman if you are a flash or download MG player. Watch reels 1 and 5 spinning. You will see our infamous Hitman, with his unmistakable white background ready to expand, spinning round. Only problem here is that Hitman wild doesn't appear on reels 1 and 5, only 2,3,4,!!!

Lazy videographic programming - his image has been added erroneously to the selection of symbol strips which are flashed by to give the impression of reels. They didn't make the mistake on the green bonus symbols - they only flash by on 3,4,5 as they should.

Stll think the reels are relevant in online slot playing???

It's accepted by pretty much everyone that the spinning reels are just an animation. The debate is whether the reels act as real mechanical reels that are being randomly stopped or not.
 

dunover

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It's accepted by pretty much everyone that the spinning reels are just an animation. The debate is whether the reels act as real mechanical reels that are being randomly stopped or not.

I think we've already established the answer to that one! If the outcome appears in your bank before the reels even start then it's impossible they are being randomly stopped. MG don't even pretend do they? They could do what some other softwares do, and withold the bank adjustment until AFTER all the videostream has been downloaded to your PC.
 

KasinoKing

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I think we've already established the answer to that one! If the outcome appears in your bank before the reels even start then it's impossible they are being randomly stopped. MG don't even pretend do they? They could do what some other softwares do, and withold the bank adjustment until AFTER all the videostream has been downloaded to your PC.
I'm not going to argue with you because a) it's pointless, b) I don't have the time right now and c) I don't care!

BUT... have you any idea how quickly a microprocessor on a computer works?
Nor have I, but I know it's bloody fast!
So fast in fact, that it is very possible for the slot software to select 5 random numbers from 1 to N (where N is the number of positions on each reel strip), calculate the resultant win in a fraction on a millisecond and then send all the data to your PC (i.e. the win amount and the finishing positions of the reels).
The end result is the same, the win amount is known before you even see the reels start to spin (which we all know is "eye candy"), and if the programing is sloppy, the win amount can be seen before the spin has finished. So what?
Why would software providers would go to all the trouble of creating these "pre-recorded animations" when the above method is much simpler?

KK
(Note: All questions in this post are rhetorical :p)
Disclaimer: Not all slots work the same way!
 

dunover

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I'm not going to argue with you because a) it's pointless, b) I don't have the time right now and c) I don't care!

BUT... have you any idea how quickly a microprocessor on a computer works?
Nor have I, but I know it's bloody fast!
So fast in fact, that it is very possible for the slot software to select 5 random numbers from 1 to N (where N is the number of positions on each reel strip), calculate the resultant win in a fraction on a millisecond and then send all the data to your PC (i.e. the win amount and the finishing positions of the reels).
Possible but utterly pointless.
The end result is the same, the win amount is known before you even see the reels start to spin (which we all know is "eye candy"), and if the programing is sloppy, the win amount can be seen before the spin has finished. So what?
Yes, so what? My OP was just an observation, which I represented as evidence to the pointlessness of reels.
Why would software providers would go to all the trouble of creating these "pre-recorded animations" when the above method is much simpler?
No trouble is necessary,and the animations don't need to be 'pre-recorded' - simply generated mathematically to a fairly simple formula containing a few 'ifs' and '>' 'any' or '/' in conjunction with graphics for each value or character you see on the slot. This then has the effect of a 'pre-recorded' bank of graphics which can be selected and applied to each value of outcome. For example there are tens of different ways to represent a 0.167x stake on TSII (3x9 or 10's) So, let's say there are 40 possible reels depictions of the said 0.167x stake 'win' then only 2 random numbers would be needed - the one to decide the win, and then any 1 from 40 graphic combinations that can be applied. It gives variation to the pseudo reels.

KK
(Note: All questions in this post are rhetorical :p)
Disclaimer: Not all slots work the same way!

:lolup::lolup::lolup:

Agreed it's doesn't really matter - then nor do football results but I often spend an hour gassing about them with my mates...:thumbsup:
 

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Just another example of the 'sloppy graphics'..was playing Fire Flies this morning (Cypto)..bonus is triggered with the icon on 1 and 5 only (and it can ONLY land on 1 and 5), but you watch it spin by on every reel.
YES I'm aware it has no bearing on the spin and YES I'm aware of it being no more than eye candy. Still, it looks sloppy.
 

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WMS slots are very accurate in terms of the correct symbols only showing on the correct reels, but the stacked wilds are genuinely comical, especially on the Star Trek slots.
 

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WMS slots are very accurate in terms of the correct symbols only showing on the correct reels, but the stacked wilds are genuinely comical, especially on the Star Trek slots.

Yes, on BL when you get the 2 treasure chests and watch the 5th. reel spin for the third, you can see BL wilds congregating ready to give you a reel full of them, useless. The most common 5th. reel scenario when this 'heartstopper' spin occurs.
 

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WMS slots are very accurate in terms of the correct symbols only showing on the correct reels, but the stacked wilds are genuinely comical, especially on the Star Trek slots.
Now this, I completely disagree with!
Their animations are a joke and in no way what-so-ever represent a fixed reel-strip.

Take Tiger's realm as an example; that has a feature which only triggers is you get 4 of the same symbol on reel 1... but you never see 4 symbols stacked scroll past - they just "magically" appear when you get the feature!
Their slots are obviously "compensated slots" and not true random video slots like most (not all) of the slots of the major software run.
However - they are great fun to play and can still pay BIG! :thumbsup:

KK
 

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Now this, I completely disagree with!
Their animations are a joke and in no way what-so-ever represent a fixed reel-strip.

Take Tiger's realm as an example; that has a feature which only triggers is you get 4 of the same symbol on reel 1... but you never see 4 symbols stacked scroll past - they just "magically" appear when you get the feature!
Their slots are obviously "compensated slots" and not true random video slots like most (not all) of the slots of the major software run.
However - they are great fun to play and can still pay BIG! :thumbsup:

KK

You're conflating two very different things there, and it depends which side of the 'are the reels real?' fence you're sitting on as to whether or not you think it matters. (I don't :))

Quite frankly I'm not overly bothered about what does or doesn't make up the 'reels' as far as the graphics go, they could just be a load of pictures of boobies for all I care, (in fact, that would be pretty cool).

All I really care about is whether or not the game calls a completely fair RNG for every spin of the reels, and then shows me the result of that RNG call as an amount I've won, or not won.

You could remove the reels entirely if you wanted, a 'slot machine' could be reduced to a simple display of an amount of cash:

1) You press start
2) The display shows £0.00p, or £4.55p, or £73.40p, or PROGRESSIVE WON, or whatever
3) GOTO 1

The 'reels' and sound and music are just a nice interactive pretty light show, nothing more. The fact that the solid strip of tiger symbols 'appear' on reel one when the feature is triggered doesn't mean that the slot is compensated at all, and I fail to understand how you make that leap of faith.

Don't get me wrong, I like the interactive pretty light show, and I think WMS slots are very good at it, which is probably why I play them almost exclusively these days.

Also, it's a real B&M slot in USA casinos as I understand it, are you saying that they're running compensated slots? :p

(And to continue on that theme, how do you explain the JPP trigger itself? There is no visible indication whatsoever when it comes to triggering the JPP, nothing on the reels, no visual cues at all, it just 'happens' at the end of any spin of the reels on any game, and that's because in the backend your client just asks the RNG for a result and it comes back 'PROGRESSIVE TRIGGERED' along with whatever win you may or may not have on the slot itself. See also the MG TDK progressive trigger, that just 'happens' as well, but that doesn't mean it can't be random.)
 

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Their slots are obviously "compensated slots" and not true random video slots like most (not all) of the slots of the major software run.

Could you clarify here please? Because WMS and all these major offline slot providers aren't running compensated slots. As a matter of fact, compensated slots aren't even legal here (see #25):

1.jpg


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IMHO, it's a disgrace that the UK allows them.
 
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dunover

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You're conflating two very different things there, and it depends which side of the 'are the reels real?' fence you're sitting on as to whether or not you think it matters. (I don't :))

Quite frankly I'm not overly bothered about what does or doesn't make up the 'reels' as far as the graphics go, they could just be a load of pictures of boobies for all I care, (in fact, that would be pretty cool).

All I really care about is whether or not the game calls a completely fair RNG for every spin of the reels, and then shows me the result of that RNG call as an amount I've won, or not won.

You could remove the reels entirely if you wanted, a 'slot machine' could be reduced to a simple display of an amount of cash:

1) You press start
2) The display shows £0.00p, or £4.55p, or £73.40p, or PROGRESSIVE WON, or whatever
3) GOTO 1

The 'reels' and sound and music are just a nice interactive pretty light show, nothing more. The fact that the solid strip of tiger symbols 'appear' on reel one when the feature is triggered doesn't mean that the slot is compensated at all, and I fail to understand how you make that leap of faith.

Don't get me wrong, I like the interactive pretty light show, and I think WMS slots are very good at it, which is probably why I play them almost exclusively these days.

Also, it's a real B&M slot in USA casinos as I understand it, are you saying that they're running compensated slots? :p

(And to continue on that theme, how do you explain the JPP trigger itself? There is no visible indication whatsoever when it comes to triggering the JPP, nothing on the reels, no visual cues at all, it just 'happens' at the end of any spin of the reels on any game, and that's because in the backend your client just asks the RNG for a result and it comes back 'PROGRESSIVE TRIGGERED' along with whatever win you may or may not have on the slot itself. See also the MG TDK progressive trigger, that just 'happens' as well, but that doesn't mean it can't be random.)

I said exactly that a while ago in another thread, and drew some howls of derision.......I totally agree though.
 

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